like it's like shutting down the files I are you uh familiar with soam so which we talk about yeah see again that is what we're hearing about what's written in the scriptures right okay somras link shivratri we have bhang so why is that bhang what is the significance of bhang would anybody really have bhang on the day when they have to connect to the Divine no that bhag actually everything that we listen to and we read it is actually supposed to give us spiritual meaning to it we are looking at it in a physical way it means that when you connect to the Divine you will experience intoxication a spiritual intoxication to be able to show it in terms of a form of a presentation or a story I'm making it physical and saying so they had bhang and so they were intoxicated so it is not the intoxication of the bhang it is the intoxication of the spiritual connection that you had with the Divine so everything that we do on a festival for


so everything that we do on a festival for example all the rituals they are not actually physical they all have a meaning of what we are supposed to create inside but to explain it to people that you know do this and then this is what you will do but later on as time progressed so from the copper age we were given these little little things to learn how we should be but now that we are in the kalyug and in the end of kalio we're only doing the rituals celebrating the festival but not taking the spiritual lesson from that for example now we will have Ganesh chaturthi then we will have navratri then we will have the Sarah then we will have Diwali they are not just festivals which have to be celebrated outside so Ganesh chaturthi means beginning becoming that one who is able to destroy the obstacles the vigan vinashak Ganesh which means the destroyer of the obstacles who's going to be the destroyer of the obstacles I have to


be the destroyer of the obstacles I have to be the destroyer of the obstacles I have to be the one who should be able to finish the sorrow and radiate happiness to all so the ganeshi teaches us that you know the ears should be such that you just filtered out everything the trunk should be such that Your Love full and lawful that you are able to pick up a needle you're also able to uproot a tree so you are sharp but yet you are strong so everything everything about Shri Ganesh ji then comes navratri so the art eight arms of the deity it doesn't mean somebody was born with eight arms it is symbolic so it is teaching us that every soul has Eight Powers the power to withdraw the power to discern the power to adjust the power to judge the power to cooperate now those Eight Powers of the Soul how should I show it in a diagram so I show it as eight arms then we have ravan with ten heads that doesn't mean there was


ravan with ten heads that doesn't mean there was somebody with 10 heads so this 10 heads are are 10 vices last greed jealousy so when I finish my 10 vices there will be Diwali so Diwali is lighting the DIA so lighting the DIA means being a giver Diya means to give and when one lights the DIA then you will have the power to light the other ones there this is all symbolic for us to do something here so somras and bhang is also symbolic it doesn't mean I have to have that substance to experience that intoxication I have to experience that intoxication which I will experience if I have the Divine connection yeah um you know you mentioned Mata right now uh with eight arms and all that um when it comes to this aspect of divine feminine in our culture I have like so many questions like I want to have a deeper understanding of it then let me begin this conversation by asking you what the reality of being a woman is and I'll


the reality of being a woman is and I'll tell you why on the show we've had a lot of male monks I think you're I don't know if I can call you like a monk like the first female or sort of spiritual leader who's come on the show um and this question is coming from a place of having gone to a meet and greet in 2018 and a girl had actually asked me that why are there fewer female spiritual leaders in our country than Milan I had no answer I didn't even know what to say so now I'm asking you that question like is do you think that's true firstly and secondly like what is the reality of being a woman and thirdly then we'll go into whole Mata conversation see once you are living with the Consciousness that you are a soul that consciousness of being a woman doesn't remain okay because Soul Consciousness is not a concept it's a way of living so before understanding that I will live in a Consciousness that I'm a


I will live in a Consciousness that I'm a girl so I'm going 25 years back so who am I I'm a girl so I will perceive everything through that Consciousness I'm an engineer now I will start seeing through that Consciousness I am a Hindu or I am an Indian so that's my consciousness of who I am Consciousness is like a lens so depending on the lens I wear I will perceive everything in the world so when I'm in the Consciousness I'm a girl and I'm going to say you are a boy then that difference is there I am rich you are not I am Hindu you are Muslim these are all my lenses these are lenses of everything that I have achieved and acquired in this lifetime but spirituality meant removing all these lenses because they are not my true identity it's like removing all these labels and coming back to who I am and now practicing I'm living in that Consciousness I am a soul talking to another soul so I


am a soul talking to another soul so I would not even remember this thing male female no no no because that's been the practice of 25 years and it's the aim is to reach there to a stage where I will never come out of that Consciousness do you think that because of the way our society is and you know often girls in small towns are that's a conditioning of society as a soul you have been in female bodies you have been in female bodies okay and you have been in male bodies so have I so every soul has all the sun scars so but when the baby is born so now in this birth I'm born in a female body now the social conditioning will start a girl should be like this a girl should be like this a girl should be like this so with that social conditioning some of my son's scars will be coming into activity and some of my son's cars will get merged it's because of my present conditioning but every soul has all the sanskars


conditioning but every soul has all the sanskars there is no such thing as feminine sanskars masculine no it's the sanskars of the Soul not Sun scars of the body but when I take birth in a particular body the world will say you should be using this son's car so the world will say speak like this don't speak like this laugh like this don't laugh like this walk like this don't walk like this the society is teaching me and making me create that sanskar and some of us don't do it don't some of us don't get affected by what Society is saying then Society will say oh this girl is behaving very boyish or this boy is behaving very feminine because the soul has both the sun's cars it all depends which son's car you are going to use in your lifetime so the soul does the sanskar doesn't depend on the gender the sun's car is of the soul and every soul has been in yeah I want to ask you about


has been in yeah I want to ask you about this divine feminine angle like this is there actually in all of the world's religions we've had Dr Ajay prabhakar on the show who's an africanistan he studied all of world cultures he said something very interesting he said that in parts of Africa they have their own version of shivji but is depicted as a woman you know it's depicted as sort of a feminine aspect of shivji then in India obviously we have like Mata culture um they do have feminine entities in Egyptian culture as well in Native American culture what were our ancestors trying to tell us when they even divided it into male and female or was that their flaw that they couldn't look Beyond gender can we go back to the cycle again the Golden Age and the Silver age souls are Divine it's on this planet it's not the Golden Age Silver age is nowhere somewhere else in the Golden Age Silver age there is no religion because the soul is perfect


there is no religion because the soul is perfect body is perfect nature is perfect there is no experience of pain and so you don't even think of the Divine that's what is called Paradise you can call it Heaven call it Paradise call it swerve call it satyo call it golden age after the afternoon which means when the evening starts golden age and Silver age we are Natural Soul conscious these souls are Divine souls and so they are called as deities today deities not by a religion deities not by your religion just the whole society the whole Community is a Divine soul everybody everybody it's the morning of the day it's the morning of the day then Collective Consciousness reduces when you come by copyright the soul has taken birth used costumes gradually we start getting attached to the body and I start forgetting just the trace not what I am today just the trace I start forgetting I am a soul and I start getting attached to my body and I start looking


start getting attached to my body and I start looking at the other person also as what is visible so that is when the first Trace first Trace not like today the first race of ego the first trace of lust the first race of greed the first race today is like Peak so just the when that first race starts the Divinity of society starts starts just little waning off that is when religion starts religion means teachers philosophers who come to start teaching us to go back to who we were you know it's like a child moving away from their potential so there is a teacher brought in to say like take care of this child so religious heads prophets everybody came was teaching us one thing God is one we are a family and then peace is our religion love unity that is way from the copper age we have all the prophets religious heads teachers philosophers they all came with one message we did not connect to the teaching we started connecting to the teacher there again was ego Consciousness so I said


teacher there again was ego Consciousness so I said that my teacher is different from you so we suddenly became different reach to a stage end of Iron Age where we are fighting in the name of religion whereas religion was in the name of bringing us together but not taking religion as a teaching but only what we are doing in terms of our lifestyle we thought you're different I am different this one's different that one is different and today we've divided into some major religions on the planet and then those religions also got further divided so we started only moving away from what was the truth so there are two words dharam and Karam dharam means religion religion means the religion of the soul and Karam is my action my behavior so what was taught to us by all teachers was the truth but everybody will have a different way of teaching it right if someone had to describe this scandal everyone will describe it differently somebody will describe it with a story somebody will describe it


will describe it with a story somebody will describe it with a metaphor somebody will describe it with a poem but they're all talking about the same candle so what every teacher was teaching us was teaching us about the powers of the soul the quality of the soul the dharam of the Soul which means the religion of the soul and what is our potential everyone was teaching method different examples different metaphors different presentation different as time progressed we are forgetting the essence we are forgetting what they were teaching we are only focused on the example the metaphor and the presentation and that's where we say what you're saying is different what I am saying is different what that religion is teaching is different no religion is teaching different everyone's teaching the same thing so go to the core the essence so when we say the feminine energy again it's not feminine energy it's the soul power it's the soul power but it is called shiv and Shakti that's why it's said


called shiv and Shakti that's why it's said as feminine it's called shiv and Shakti so shiv is for the divine power Supreme Soul again called by different names but that's just a name we can say Supreme soul I can say God I can say parmatma I can say Allah I can say word different reality is one then in Hinduism I can say shiv it's a name so you are one different people can call you by different names but if I forget who you are and only look at the names I will think you're two different people but actually you're one person just being called by different names so God and soul they are the two energies God and soul Supreme soul and soul so somebody said shiv and Shakti parmatma and Atma but it is not male and female it's not male and female it is paramatma and Atma they are the two entities on this planet God and souls then the souls have then presented it in a different way so


have then presented it in a different way so when we say the Shakti it is the Shakti Shakti means power so whose power your own your own power so how do I present that power how do I explain to somebody these powers and how does somebody worship those Powers because people wanted to worship that Shakti actually they were taught to us for us to imbibe that Shakti to invoke that Shakti not invoke that Shakti like this invoke that Shakti like this we are invoking from there as if somebody is going to come from there invoke the Shakti within yeah also you know because this is a duality based concept there's two things I think the easiest Duality for a human mind to understand is but it's actually shiv and Shakti means the Supreme soul and soul where Mahatma and Atma God and I you know when we spoke about religions on Earth and fighting each other and ego battles and religions and getting further divided in themselves and


and getting further divided in themselves and saying my religion is better than your religion Etc uh let's take the entire human population and move them to the moon and then look back at our Earth as one blue ball and everything that's ever happened in human history is on that blue ball now when you take it really really far into space the Earth becomes one dot yes in like a galaxy of things my question to you is about the Galaxy is that the purpose of space and planets to teach us how small and insignificant we are and also to know who we are it's not about we are insignificant all this is not happening because we have forgotten but it is happening because we have forgotten who I am if I forget if just visualize that tomorrow you forget who you are you forget that you are Ranbir how will life be you forget who you are you forget who is your family you forget you do this podcast you just forget everything some people go through that no


you just forget everything some people go through that no just forget how will life become how will life be challenging that's what life is today we've forgotten our souls I've forgotten who I am I've forgotten who you are I've forgotten the purpose of me being here we've forgotten that we are one yes I have forgotten who is my Divine parent I have forgotten what is my potential I have forgotten what is my Shakti so I am looking for it everything outside who I actually am and so every teacher right from corporate to even today is teaching us only that to come back to our religion religion the religious teachers so Jesus Christ got them both Muhammad mahavir Guru nanak Dev ji Shiri Sai Baba they didn't come to divide us they in fact did not come to establish a religion they were not establishing a religion they were teaching religion they were teaching religion religion means dharam dharam means the duty the quality of the Soul which means what is your


the quality of the Soul which means what is your duty so the duty or the quality of the soul is Purity Peace Love Power wisdom and Bliss these are the seven qualities of the Soul so every teacher came to teach us only that that this is your dharam bring it into your every Karam and this is the dharam of every soul so they did not come to create religions they came to teach religion had we connected to the teaching we would have all been because we're all learning the same thing and we're implementing the same thing we did not connect so much to the teaching and as time progressed and we reached the Iron Age we were only connecting to the teacher and then under the teacher there were more teachers So within one religion also then different teachers now a different teacher will always say the same concept in a little different manner two people cannot teach the same thing in the identical manner but just because two people presented the same concept of dharam into different manners


presented the same concept of dharam into different manners we went and got divided again I follow this one I fall we were not supposed to follow people we were supposed to follow what they were sharing and follow means follow not follow follow it make it a part of your life so we are supposed to follow religion and if we followed religion we will all become United but then body Consciousness and ego Consciousness reached to such a stage that today will be coming intolerant we can't and we were ready to yeah we know what's happening you know speaking about tolerance again uh uh I've been reading a lot about something called cataclysmic events which basically means that every sort of ten thousand fifteen thousand years or so there's some events that happen in the earth cycle which just destroy everything like that's how the dinosaurs also died that's how human populations have constantly kind of been boiled down to nothingness and then grown out of there and this is the history we're not


out of there and this is the history we're not taught in schools this is the history that archaeologists are suggesting actually existed for example they found batteries inside the pyramids so who's to say that ancient cultures also they probably were technologically advanced and the only reason we don't have remnants of their cultures because time and nature destroys everything including plastic over 3000 years so in the three lakh years of human history how many times have we seen cataclysmic events how many times have you seen things eroding away you know and um the kind of big message from my ancestors according to archaeologists is one take care of Nature and two have balance between the duality of Life yes uh have balance between what they call male and female aspect but after this particular episode that's become clearer so Before I Let You Go sister Shivani I've got to ask you one personal question as it's not about me it's just a question in my heart yeah uh what is the purpose of outer space like


yeah uh what is the purpose of outer space like the universe we know it's out there ancient humans knew what's out there ancient humans also knew that asteroids come from there you know that these are things out of our control uh for example there's something called the torrid meteor stream that hits Earth every like uh 10 000 years and it's been responsible for all these events what are we supposed to make of the big like nothingness out there is that God's way of saying that listen you're very small like or is it something else are we supposed to go out there like Elon Musk is trying to occupy Mars and then I'm sure like we've had an astronaut on the show as well who explained to me that space travel Works in increments right so first you figure out how to go to the Moon then you figure out how to go to Mars then you'll figure out how to go to the next planet etc etc but um what is the purpose of space why does it exist this is


the purpose of space why does it exist this is astronomy you know spirituality will teach us something different okay we have to go but we're going to go to the soul world which is beyond this universe yeah where did we come from and why is the population still increasing population has always been on the increase is it because animals are turning into human beings no animal doesn't become a human being a human soul will take birth as a human soul with your son's car and win your karmic account but why is population still increasing population is increasing because we're coming from the soul world and that's why you know if you see people say oh I want mukti I want Moksha I want to get out of this thing and I just want we always look up somewhere we're not very clear what's there up somewhere but we keep saying I want to go home I want I want to come out of this birthday bird cycle even when we think of the Divine when we think of God


we think of the Divine when we think of God we go there the place of worship or the temple could be her in my room but when I say God I'll go there so the soul has a very faint memory of where we have come from who we were with we are here and how we will go back and that is that timing which is coming now when things which are happening will happen everything that the world is preparing for then we will go in big numbers there's a very big shift that's going to happen the Golden Age population is not going to be the population of inh much smaller very small so gradually from Golden Age Silver age copper age Iron Age population goes on increasing and then and in the last 100 150 years the population has increased and it's still increasing which means some souls are still coming so just try and visualize this Beyond everything that science knows because science can only know that what is visible through a machine or through where I can travel physically wherever


machine or through where I can travel physically wherever you go whether it's to the moon or to the Mars you're going physically so that's the physical world what we call the universe the soul will travel to the soul world there's no body that's going there everywhere here every planet we are going with this body so this is soul world where which is beyond everything that science knows so let's call it home let's call it home let's call God the parent and bear all the children so just visualize Little Stars just like the stars we see in the sky at night these souls in the soul world and then as per what frequency I take myself to by the end of this cycle this is a cycle like you said those Cycles what vibrational frequency I take myself to by the end of this I and H and what things will happen on the planet Souls will go to the soul world so let's say I take myself up to 50. hypothetically on a vibration of 10 to


50. hypothetically on a vibration of 10 to 100 somebody takes themselves up to 90. somebody takes themselves up to 100 and then we're all there okay so now visualize all the souls different Purity level different vibrational level now the planet and there's never a time when there is no soul on the planet so when we say destruction it's not that the world comes to an end it'll never come to an end but it'll go through a transformation but the transformation is so gradual that you won't even come to know that there's a transition that is happening where we will be going and we will also be coming it's like you're working throughout the day you'll go home and come back to work so now visualize almost all of us are back home and the golden age has started which we created with our vibration so the Golden Age hypothetically let's call it a frequency of 100 which means the best so those Souls who took themselves up to 100 will automatically get pulled


themselves up to 100 will automatically get pulled down automatic there's nothing God is not sending us okay now you go now you go it's depending on where I took myself up to those Souls will come down in the Golden Age by Silver age let's say it's 80 the souls who are 80 will come down Corporation let's say it's 50 the souls who reached up to 50 will come down iron ages souls are still coming so that's something if you experience in your meditation you'll be able to start seeing this you can actually go to the soul World using the power of your mind and intellect and see this is the home this is that Divine Parent Connect with that Divine parent because only connecting to the higher power will start raising your frequency it's like again connecting the phone to the powerhouse to connect a battery connecting to a battery cannot charge but a battery connecting to a Powerhouse so this is the time the change of cycle where Souls will be going home which the souls are


Souls will be going home which the souls are asking for or we want to go we want more we want to go home and then we will start coming as per our vibrational frequency and the world will again come into a cycle so what you said it goes into a cycle yes it goes into a cycle and there is a destruction but destruction doesn't mean everything finish but there is a lot of upheaval a lot of applications we're going through one right now we are and it's only going to increase it's obvious we can see what's happening on the planet whether it's in terms of environment whether it's in terms of and these things have happened before these things have happened before it's a cycle morning was there before afternoon evening night was there before the cycle is only repeating so this will be a time of a lot of upheaval but along with that a time of Awakening so it's like the old house crumbling and the new house under construction there's never going to be


the new house under construction there's never going to be a time where we are without a house so we are all instrumental by working on our sanskars and vibration we're all helping to construct the new house so each one of us each one who is trying to raise their vibration in whichever manner they feel right which means creating a shift in yourself everybody's talking about the shift so the shift in the planet will only happen with the shift in the individual there's nobody else who will come and shift the energy of the planet we create our world so every individual today just ask yourself do I want to shift in this direction or do I want to shift in this direction if I'm shifting in this direction it's not just a personal shift I'm contributing to creating the world shift I'm a part of that Tipping Point population who's going to be instrumental in changing the night into the morning but before that we will go to the soul Earth and we will come back without frequency vibration is it


and we will come back without frequency vibration is it fair to say that space is just a reminder of us to like look up and go beyond of course knowing that the world is not just us not just this much what is what we know about and what is visible there's much much much more beyond that also Shivani I think we've reached the end of this episode I hope the experience is all right for you beautiful not all right not all right all right is a very so beautiful even even with the iconic start we had on the show do you know how beneficial that was we were able to learn so much because of that so everything that happens is for a very good reason we understand how cleansing happens we understand how our Karma creates a consequence and most important we understand how we feel after the cleansing so like we feel that you know your face changed after that yeah I got empty enough to absorb things no so your face changed which means when I remove any


so your face changed which means when I remove any cluttered from my life mind or body it will show on your face so the ego also rips apart like this and then there is purity humility on the face when we remove our cluttered under so it was a very good scene yes I want to thank you for sharing all the learnings and I want to thank God for using me as a metaphor today so absolutely very different experience but uh every podcast teaches me one lesson and from today's show what I learned is that The Human Experience of life is like clay and you can make it exactly what you wish and ideally if you turn it into a clay which is related to you going Beyond this world that's the best kind of use of the clay absolutely thank you so much episode for today thank you for listening to the entire piece if you've reached this point of the episode the joy of podcasting is multi-fold right like you get to learn other people's life lessons you get to


get to learn other people's life lessons you get to experience other people's lives through the course of conversations but when you have interactions like this way of speaking to older great Souls there is some sort of energy that rubs off on your Outlook of the world as well bikeshwani was a very highly requested episode and as is the case with all the other spiritual episodes I feel like they come into my life at the point that I need to hear some of the things that she spoke about after the camera stopped rolling I asked her for a piece of advice for myself and she said that immerse yourself into the thought that you were simply the instrument of creation and you're being used by a higher power in order to create his or her will in today's day and age in today's world but simple thought has given me an immense amount of motivation and an immense amount of drive to take the story forward it's not easy to create three podcasts every week but I feel that with your


three podcasts every week but I feel that with your support the podcast is growing and you're growing with us you're growing with me I love that I get to live this life that I've chosen to live I love that I've been chosen to live this kind of a life and I love sharing my growth and my learnings with you all thank you for supporting us make sure you follow us on Spotify every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world lots of love to you keep supporting lots more spiritual content coming your way [Music] thank you


they can sense like they say if a shark encounters you stay there don't try to swim away stay there next to the shark because invariably what happens seals and the turtles are the food of sharks when a diver when a person swimming on surface or a diver is diving underwater the silhouette is like those animals so shah cannot differentiate that's why if he's hungry the shark is hungry going to attack we suddenly switched on the tv around 9 00 we found there some had something happening in taj and something happened in scion hospital and also in the in the bt station 12 30 at night they reached mumbai and there was a lot of chaos there and the team were told to enter so we had we follow buddy pass one guy went is the second guy was outside and the other five six people are lined up behind he heard a talking of ak-47 and he realized they're under grief we were using mp5s so there's a distinct noise of


were using mp5s so there's a distinct noise of mp5 caulking and ak portion cocking and then there was a volume of fire from the other side commodore vijay pal rawat is one of the most intense human beings we've had on this show when you first meet him you won't be able to tell he's intense you can definitely tell that he's a military veteran because of the way he carries himself because of the way he stands but very few people will be able to tell that he's considered to be one of the legends of the world of the marcos the marcos or the marine commandos are the special forces of the indian navy they were built in order to carry out extremely difficult operations that the regular military personnel may not be able to do with ease the kind of adventures that the marcos have the kind of missions that they're built for that's what this episode is about today so while we began the episode speaking a little bit about the navy trust


episode speaking a little bit about the navy trust me it becomes one of the most adventurous episodes that we've ever created as the episode moves forward if you're fascinated by the para sf which is the special forces of the indian army you're in for a ride when it comes to this episode the marcos is a concept is a vertical of the indian military that more people need to know of from an international perspective everyone knows about the navy seals but very few people know that one of the most badass sections of the armed forces anywhere in the world are the indian marcos and here we have a legend of the indian marcos with us commodore vijay rawat is on prs make sure you follow trs on with spotify exclusive every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world vijay sir thank you for being on the show into the audience i'll let you slip into one of the most iconic trs episodes that we've created in recent


most iconic trs episodes that we've created in recent times [Music] uh excited oh very excited i'm excited i i was just talking on behalf of myself but i'm glad to know that you're excited uh you know when someone meets you in real life and i'm gonna be very straightforward here but when someone meets you in real life i don't think they know what kind of a badass you are and what kind of a tough human being you are because your vibe is too friendly and approachable yeah thanks a lot yeah but it's kind of like a whole peter parker spider-man situation like you're absolutely right but you know it tells my wife once a while yeah there's a peter parker sitting in front of us who can easily jump up on the roof and start crawling and become a spider-man thank you thanks for this accolades my god sir i can't tell you how collectively excited the team is to do a marcos themed episode we've done so


to do a marcos themed episode we've done so many armed forces episodes we've had marcos based conversations come up in the past episodes okay and we sat on the edit table and removed it because the internal conversation was when vijay sir comes that's when we'll actually do an all out marcos based conversation so not one data point of markov should go out from anyone other than you okay uh so that's what this episode is once again thanks for that yeah i don't think honestly people know what marcos is really people have just started to even understand special forces in general because there's not much data about the armed forces out there in the public domain uh you know often people's understanding of the armed forces comes from movies like shairsha or border yeah but this is the real method in which it should come out we also have international audiences so yeah so i'd love for you to kind of introduce what marcos is to both international audiences as well as indian citizens listening in yeah my pleasure


well as indian citizens listening in yeah my pleasure actually see every service in the armed forces got a special forces element so the special forces element for the navy is the marine commandos it was it was actually commissioned earlier as the indian marine special force but later on the name was changed to marine commandos so it does confuse with the royal marine commando which is not so because it is a special force like they have the sbs or we have the you know delta so we have seal team six i think i think you might have to explain the term special forces okay i will tell you see what happens you know like you have a normally a normal soldier in the armed forces is trained to a certain level of combat and based on his level of knowledge and training and skill sets he's able to do some kind of operations but then if you have to upscale his skills and you know make him a combatant who can do much beyond what an infantry soldier can do and let me also


an infantry soldier can do and let me also tell you here that infinity indian infinity soldiers are power excellence they are actually very good but amongst them if you have to find the best people and then they have to train them to become special forces that it requires different kind of steel you know nerves of steel it requires different kind of your combination of brand and brain so what happens uh in the special forces you find guys who are who are mentally very tough physically robust and they have a natural instinct for uh you know doing situational awareness and orientation towards any situation which is developing which for a normal soldier may actually unsettle him but for a special forces guide definitely that's the way uh the training level is so high that it sort of becomes like a muscle memory and so this is the second thing is that a special forces comprise of the best people we have in the armed forces number two they've got the best weapons and equipment number three they've got the best


best weapons and equipment number three they've got the best platform for launch and recovery for launch and recovery means when you launch a team i'm talking about the marine commanders because a lot of launch ammons among the three services marine commanders are the only force which actually operate in three dimensions we use the air medium for doing insertion by skydiving by para jumping in by slithering and rapping then we use uh then we use these c medium for uh doing you know using your ribs for rigid hull incredible fast boards what is that it's basically a fast board which has a speed of 40 knots plus it can carry about 16 people 40 knots transmits about almost 35 kilos per hour which is a very high speed and it is meant for quick insertion and extraction from a particular target area after you achieve the mission so that is one way we can use it the same rip can also be air dropped from a c130 or c17 and then we do a follow-up with a


c17 and then we do a follow-up with a skydive and then you know the rip falls into the water we skydive next to the rib and within one and a half minutes we are into the rib and then we go for an operation you say it so casually with so much humility in your eyes again like people don't understand the dangers involved people don't don't understand the difficulty involved i'm feeling very bad about it because i've retired and you know this is you know the fun thing for my youngsters to do because by the time all this capability got into the service i had just was over the oh the curve and i wasn't able to do all these things but you know at least i've ensured that this capability has now been made available to us so today if you look at from the equipment point of view we are at par with uh perhaps the best maritime special forces in the world including the u.s navy seals and so that is one so this is another medium a third


that is one so this is another medium a third bit is underwater medium underwater medium is basically you know we've got uh two main craft called the chariot craft which has about uh you know 100 kilo of tnt slung under it and you also carry limpet mines which are about 7 kilos and 15 kilos there are two people who sit on the chariot club and one is a pilot and the pilot console is something very similar to a helicopter console but a very very uh narrowed down version you've got a gyro you want a depth a meter you've got echo sounder you've got a forward echo sounder and you got a pitch indicator and battery indicators and all this kind of stuff and then and it's a free flooding compartment that means the water is coming from all around you are actually in the water medium you're wearing a diving set a closed circuit diving set and a closed second timing set is normally used when you have 100 oxygen in a bottle and then when you


100 oxygen in a bottle and then when you breathe in and you exhale the exhale air doesn't go out because if it goes out bubbles are formed and somebody can make out that there's somebody underwater so this one when the bubble comes and it bubble doesn't come the exhaled air goes into the co2 absorbent which is in the canister in the diving set and that actually converts it into oxygen again wow so then uh that's how it is you saw the endurance that's also what the rebreather said and the endurance of the set is about two to three hours what about the endurance of the people where the people you know that's the issue because normally that's the reason why uh we do so much of training for the marine commando especially in water because the water is not a very easy medium it doesn't spare you so easily if you get tired in land you can actually stop but if you get tired in water then you'll be in grief you know i


water then you'll be in grief you know i love military podcast because you give me so many tangents to go on it doesn't happen with other human beings uh but so okay let me let me ask you uh this why are all special forces yeah why are they so like humble like i feel like that's also a definite part of the human element of special forces and the one thing i've understood is that there is a very strong human element like while you're putting these high quality soldiers through some sort of training you are also putting them through some sort of mental conditioning to almost make them better human beings or to make them more humble am i correct in saying that actually absolutely you're correct but you know how do i put so that you know the viewers can actually easily understand you know when a baby is born he's actually raw and he doesn't know anything so for him everything is natural comes naturally to him and then he imbibes and picks up things in the i


he imbibes and picks up things in the i i've done uh marine commando training i've done infantry commando school belgium training which is a very tough training of 33 days i've also done the course little bit of course with nsg before that i did my clearance driving course which is basically it's quite a difficult course it's about eight months course which happens in coaching diving school coaching so in all these courses the emphasis is on making you raw getting you down to your knees getting you to the you know they say you're the biggest come in the earth and you don't know you you don't exist in the earth and if you want to survive then you have to prove it so what happens to get you down to such an extent that uh that you know your mind stops working your mind starts working and you become like a baby so i i assume that humility comes from there yeah once again you said become like a baby you mean you go to a very primal


a baby you mean you go to a very primal level very primal level you don't you'd go to very primal level survival and you know like just imagine uh you your day started i'm saying the client's driving clearance driving course friends driving because we we clear uh mines underwater so you'll have to kind of explain the educational trajectory as well okay so people have no context so like you have normal bombs which are thrown brought by the aircrafts and they are meant to explode and create the kind of destruction similarly you have sea mines which are laid under water just to destroy some ships which are passing over it so you have a c mine which is laid under water to a depth of let's say 20 30 40 meters by various mediums you can throw it from an aircraft you can throw it from a craft of opportunity or you can throw it and get a submarine and to lay the sea mines idea is to stop the own shipping to disturb their own shipping


to stop the own shipping to disturb their own shipping and also to stop your own warships trying to trouble them so this is this kind of mining operation which happens so the clearance driving team is the is comprised of a team of divers cleanse drivers who are trained to do underwater disposal of the sea mines which is a very high risk kind of activity because like bomb but when you defuse a bomb on surface i've done that course also i have also qualified in uh improvised explosive devices uh you know disposal and also making it so now what happened underwater as i told you uh it's not as simple as what you do on the surface there is a issue of equipment there is issue of you know stabilizing yourself and there is a limited amount of people who can actually address one mind under water minds actually sink into the mud and you know sometimes to really keep on digging to find where the mine is and the indian waters are such that you know sometimes the


the indian waters are such that you know sometimes the mind goes to about two three meters you really can't actually when you say two three meters under the bottom becomes clay or mud it just goes things inside so how do how the hell do you find out and then these are the minds who got uh they can get activated by either a pressure and you uh induced this activation or by noise activation or even by metallic changes of any magnetism because they are actually meant for ships so when a ship is moving there is the ambient noise within the ship internal noise of the ship there is also the noise of the propellers and there is also the metal huge metal about four to five thousand tons of metal moving over the water so it is going to have some kind of magnetic disturbances which is picked up by a mine it just explodes and if you have one or two mines which explode under a ship then probably the ship will be in grief but it actually can sink so our job is


grief but it actually can sink so our job is to ensure that once you detect a mine our job as a clearance driver is to go underwater with your equipment on try to identify the mind and try to diffuse the mind one little rookie question yeah very city boy question for you uh you said it's like 20 to 30 meters deep yeah i've done a 36 foot dive i believe it was like significant that's about 10 11 meters yeah yeah so i can't imagine how deep these mines are placed and also i can't imagine the force with which those bombs explode yeah to be able to take out a ship that's on the sleeves there's a plume effect you know it it explodes under water and the water plume comes up okay it's like a topic yeah exactly when you when it even a bomb actually on the surface explodes it has got the pressure effect it's got the pressure which is coming and the sound and after the sharpness underwater sharpness will not have much of relevance but


underwater sharpness will not have much of relevance but uh the pressure of the explosion of the tnt it could be 300 kg 200 kg tnt tnt is a explosive yeah you could have various other kinds of explosive and that explodes and uh then there's a water the column of water above the above the mine that actually comes up gotcha and then that's called the water plume the water plume is very dangerous it's a hydrocannon a hydrocannon and it can actually it's like a water jet and it can actually break a ship's hull into two parts let's get into naval warfare yeah a little bit i don't even know where to begin this conversation honestly but what i would also like to kind of give you context on is that when it comes to the subject of hot war where humans go up against other humans yeah lots of people visualize the army you know like fighting against like soldiers fighting against each other um has there been a recent sort of violent hot war history


there been a recent sort of violent hot war history of naval warfare anywhere in the world sees like this that all the greatest parts of the world have become great because of amongst the three services one service very predominant which is the uh which is the navy you see the the royal navy the british navy most of the other people who who set up colonies were all using their ships for all the movements and so basically the navy was the one in the forefront all the expedition they had from the ships only today the u.s navy has got a preponderance of force because they got 11 aircraft nuclear aircraft carriers each aircraft carrier can carry about 90 aircrafts can you imagine together they're bigger than most of the uh you know air forces of the world are there a lot of naval warfare situations that happen all over the globe which are not reported by media so what happens most of the countries cannot afford to have a full-fledged war because it


cannot afford to have a full-fledged war because it takes your convert down by a couple of years you know if china is a is a emerging power in fact is the second largest economy in the world and uh they really want to become the world power but then to become the world by this start they should not start doing all this kind of activity in the world they should not do things because it is going to affect their economy it's going to affect their business interest diplomatically is going to have a meeting they're going to take a beating so all these are there so everybody wants to have a a little bit of conflict you know and keep it below the escalation matrix that means you start something but ensure that it is so calibrated that it doesn't go you know conflagrated to a full-fledged warfare same thing happened in india in india pakistan if you see uh kargil the same thing we didn't want to cross the loc and go that side because we could have


the loc and go that side because we could have easily done that and but then we did not do it because we have got we are a principled country you know we didn't want to unnecessarily escalate when it comes to naval warfare if you fire a missile or a torpedo it hits a target the target sinks and we're talking about targets like a ship a ship will sync with 200 people on board and of course the cost of the any normal warship africa class will cost you about eight to ten thousand crores so that's the amount of damage plus the psychological damage so uh that's why navy doesn't get involved in very small time squamishes navy gets involved in something called a limo low intensity maritime operations that is you know people do gun running they do human trafficking they do some kind of you know piracy operations and all these small operations they're the navy during peace time they do it that's fine but you know i think after the uh after the israel egypt


i think after the uh after the israel egypt war which was which saw the missile actions there has been no significant uh action only now in ukraine we found one of the one of their you know warship was sunk can i pitch a geopolitical concept to you and this is from my understanding from the show please correct me is it true that if you control the seas it is extremely beneficial to your economy and therefore your geopolitical power in the world and is that the reason why the navy is so key to geopolitical power hundred percent see actually when uh our prime minister laid prime minister nehru he said you know uh though if you control the sea if you go to the sea you actually can influence uh uh issues on the language and is it because the seas provide food like is that the reason not only food actually see nine if you come to the world trade almost 90 percent of the world trade moves by sea trading water trading in crude oil training in petroleum


water trading in crude oil training in petroleum products training in coal minerals everything you know it's been carried from one country to the other import export all these things happen so they are carrying the trade now coming back to india 90 90 percent by volume and 97 percent by cost that much trade happens through the sea route so now that's why to ensure that our sea lines of communication that is the shipping is not disturbed by inimical elements even by other navies and other rogue elements we need to have a strong navy and not only strong navy we shouldn't we need to have a navy which can actually react immediately that's why again as i really cannot reveal much about the deployments of our ships but i can just tell you that two years back there were more than 150 warships of foreign countries deployed in the indian ocean region itself and there were about more than 51 ships from the u.s navy which are deployed at any point in time in the indian ocean region what is


in time in the indian ocean region what is the business here the business here is to ensure that the business runs without uh the preponderance of force and that to a naval force which can actually dominate that area control the seas and ensure that there is a smooth flow of traffic of the trade they have to be there like how they say wars are won or lost based on logistics so this is the economic version of it in terms of the economy of countries is heavily dependent on on telemarine you guys protect the merchandise yes we have to ensure that our sea borders are protected we have to ensure that our uh the seas which come under indian jurisdiction are not exploited by the other powers gotcha until the economic you know exclusive economic zone and beyond that is the high seas but within that they should be protected and and then third we have to ensure that our energy security that means you know petroleum products and you know gas products all this which are coming by tankers and all these


all this which are coming by tankers and all these things one or two million barrels of oil is required every day in india to sustain the economy so every country has got something called a strategic all reserves i may be wrong with my figure sure so but that's not of much interest to the general public just to suffice to say that a lot of oil is required by the country to run the economy on a daily basis so what countries do that they develop something called a strategic oil reserves if you don't have study all reserves obviously you will come to a grinding halt you cannot run your aircraft you cannot move fly aircraft you can't run your tanks you cannot move your ships and then nothing can happen use as as good as surrendering while being in harbor one over naval warfare yeah um in like i've kind of again got so many places to go with this how do you even explain naval warfare to someone who doesn't really understand it because um i mean i'm


doesn't really understand it because um i mean i'm sure there's deep levels of strategy maneuvering the ship uh you know the way you'd use the weapons how do you even explain it actually you know when people talk about warfare i don't think people even understand what is army warfare what they see now in the news media is you know they watch a movie called border and they know that a line of control is there and there are firing going on from here firing going from there then you do artillery firing they have to do water firing this is not warfare actually this is not this is very simple one of the lowest uh level of warfare then what they understand is you know you see you know people having uh problems not problems people getting into encounter in jnk and even the northeast against terrorists and all so people understand this because they see people in you know camera fast uniform from the army and also from the other security forces and they're doing this kind of anti-terrorist operations i


they're doing this kind of anti-terrorist operations i think the general public feels that that is what is army warfare that's not so in fact that is one that's actually a police role actually army's not meant for that but when one of the duties of our army is to when they're called upon to do internal security so they do it and that's why they're doing it because they're the most organized force and the most well-trained force that's why they are deployed for this kind of operations otherwise this is not the only this is one of the smallest spec of army operations even the army operations are very very high tech in the sense that not only high tech in terms of the equipment they use but also the thought process the strategies they make the kind of to further progress with the operations so it's complicated by itself coming to the air force operation no one understands they all know borrow code strike and that's about it that is one small part of the air force operation i mean if


small part of the air force operation i mean if that was so indian air force doesn't have to be the fifth largest or fourth largest air force in the world we got about 800 aircraft in our in our kitty then coming to the naval operations obviously as compared to these two they are more visible because they are in land but any warfare at sea is something which people don't come to know about it because it is not so apparent and we don't operate in small scales naval warfare is always in large scale and last scale means war so that's the reason but if i want to summarize what uh what you want me to convey to the people who are watching there are two concepts of naval warfare one is called the sea control and one is called the sea denial see control is the medium of the sea which you are actually controlling effectively that means when an aircraft carrier goes it doesn't go alone it goes along with a tanker to fuel it it goes along


with a tanker to fuel it it goes along with other escort ships which could be destroyed which could be frigates destroy and figure the warships and of course the destroyers are slightly bigger than the frigates and they've got missiles they got you know surface of surface missile to destroy the enemy ships they got surface to air missile to ensure that uh any any aircraft or missile which is coming is destroyed so they and they are put in various you know various areas uh and their base formation then formation also got a calculation so i don't want to bore people with that no no i don't think anyone's getting there's a lot of calculations and then the calculations are based on tactical situation also the capability of the sensors onboard sensors sonar sensors your other electronic warfare sensors your radar sensors and of course the range of your missiles so all this thing you so you have in the center you have the main body and on the sides protecting the main body and


and on the sides protecting the main body and also going to progress with the operation you have the other vessels now once you have that it is said that when the us cbg carrier battle group is moving around it sanitizes an area of thousand kilometers around it so that is called sea control means anything which moves in thousand thousands can be prosecuted and positive i didn't find destroyed so people are scared so when he moves to an area of the whole idea of the other one that's he becomes the boss of the area indian navy has got a capability of more than 500 kilometers 600 kilometers to control the entire area so that's called sea control then there is something so when you have sea control then any of your trade can pass through it easily no other you know enemy warship can actually tamper with it because you are having a c control now second concept is see denial see the alarm is you deny the water body above you in a particular area to the enemy to use it


in a particular area to the enemy to use it or is enemy shipping to use it like make it a red zone of sorts denial the best platform is a submarine so when you have something or nuclear something lurking underwater it is the biggest threat uh because you know the biggest threat why because it is very difficult to detect the submarine underwater because you have something called a sonar sonar actually you know sound uh navigation ranging so you actually actually emit some sound the sound goes and touches the object and come back and then with that you can make out whether it's a it's a false target or is actually a submarine or what is the size of somebody and all this kind of can draw out a picture of what's under you can draw the picture under you the problem is that the propagation of sound underwater is very complicated there is something called as the condition condition of you know what how saline the water is how cold or hot the water is what are the uh you know what


the water is what are the uh you know what is the all they call the bathing conditions you know okay and then uh so uh it's slightly complicated so generally what happens a sonar uh of a warship sonar uh may not pick up a submarine but there's somebody in someone can pick up the warship because he stays in passive passive he can actually listen to the proper noise he can listen to the image noise of his ship and if he's transporting through in sonaz he can actually pick up because he's in a better position gotcha and he can pick up and then he comes and takes up a position a problem and fires atop a door if a torpedo hits a vessel then the vessel doesn't survive that is the potency of a torpedo and that is why uh submarines are the most potent platform and the most effective platform of doing a sea denial so when you say my summaries are deployed here the other way of seed denial is put mine c mines i


of seed denial is put mine c mines i just explained so you put c mines and you say that or you can declare a mine field as per the geneva convention if you mind a particular area you have to declare to everybody in the world because unlike a border issue where you've got people on this side and that side there's a demarcation is like football match you have you know this side and that side the villagers on the side are actually pulled back and similar on the other side c is uh is a global common in the sense everybody moves around the sea is the data shared with all of the world's navies uh not all the worlds maybe data is shared we got a we got an organization in indian navy where almost all the data of the shipping both indian shipping merchant vessels or most of the countries it paints you know their exactly position last protocol what they are carrying passenger crew list and next port of call where it is going everything is recorded so we


call where it is going everything is recorded so we generally know exactly where our ships are where they are any one of them who doesn't identify we can make out this is now this may be an anime thing do you think that there's a lot of animals down there which are not discovered also as far as i'm concerned being a clearance diver and being a marine commando i've encountered jellyfish underwater i've seen a lot of fishes i have grouper is one group is one fish i've seen i've seen uh you know more eel i've seen sea turtles i've seen a lot of other colored fish sharks sharks i've seen smaller ones not a bigger ones uh when especially when you dive in the andaman nicobar islands and also the basic reefs if you see uh where there you find and of course sea snakes uh what what's the animal that you're the most wary of when it's new actually looks wise it is uh the more eel because it looks deadly it looks


uh the more eel because it looks deadly it looks like a reptile on underwater and it can actually confuse with let's say a crocodile or something because you also have sea crocodiles and in the andaman nicobar islands there was a time when there was salties salt salt order actually see crocodiles uh they're significantly larger than land crocodiles right as far as i know like i think any they're dangerous animals they are dangerous animals and of course they hunt for food the sea snakes are the deadliest snakes in the world but the the beauty is that there are very very few known cases of a sea snake bite death because you see indian fishermen they actually remove the sea snakes from the nets and just chuck it back to the water because they've got small beaks and they are very shy they don't actually bite but if they bite somebody then the guy is gone because there's no antidote for that have you had interactions with crocodiles uh not with crocodiles but i had


crocodiles uh not with crocodiles but i had close shades with uh with uh mauree and also with uh the you know portuguese manowar which is basically a jellyfish okay and jellyfish are actually dangerous because they go to tentacles and these tentacles have got you know a small small uh a pin sort of thing which actually is like acts like an injection and they can inject poison into your body and you've been stung i've been strong and uh it was quite dangerous because uh i was talking when i was in part of the operation powen we're deployed in tricomale hubble and all the naval warships to come and our job was to go underwater search for any mines and all because the easiest way to have maximum casualty is to put a sea a small limpet mine under a water vessel and when the and time it to a couple of hours when the ship is sailing with 600 passengers or soldiers it just blasts and the ship goes down so we


just blasts and the ship goes down so we used to ensure that before a ship comes alongside these two dive on the jet tnc is any mine like object or mine if it is there we have to dispose it off similarly also on the onboard ship every two three hours we used to come and do diving now the waters are very clear in tranquility however you can actually throw a coin and see the coin at 20 30 meters depth wow is that clear it's as clear as luxury pilots okay and they are one of the good dive spots so there we should see you know uh a bunch of jellyfish with tentacles you know actually moving around through two three meters extending two three meters long and we used to avoid them but how big are they like how big is the body jellyfish could be about anything but smaller one to about half a meter one i've seen a jellyfish which could be diameter of one one and a half meter more than this light and then there's more


half meter more than this light and then there's more than the light and then it comes towards you it can have tentacles which can be about two three meters and there's the tentacles are also moving so slowly you would not realize it and if you're like in my case what happened i was diving and when i came up i saw the jellyfish and i was trying to maneuver myself but then some of those uh you know the tentacles got caught my neck and my neck was exposed and that sort of i had high fever for two three days do you sense aggression from those not aggression i mean it is just a uh not that they are trying to harm us but it's their domain their medium you know we are trying to interfere in their medium it's self protection yeah yeah self production actually underwater what did it feel like getting stung see it was like a burning sensation and thereafter is like uh it's a poison basically it's not that very potentially it cannot


basically it's not that very potentially it cannot cause fatality in in human beings but it can really make you sick so i'll sit for about four five days like it's like a strong body of viral fever you have no continuous height temperature of 100 300 for it remained for about two three days and then of course we put soda lime cocktail and all we put some other kind of back uh you know some kind of uh lotions and all which are our medical doctor gave us is it true that human urine is a yes okay and actually seawater is a antiseptic by itself so if you any heavy cuts and all you just go and dive in the seeds it becomes all right healing is faster and of course what you said about this urine everyone has got a lot of benefits one of the benefit is this and we do it actually and did it actually help i didn't put you you didn't i'm just saying that people do when uh there's some cut in the leg


people do when uh there's some cut in the leg and all you're done we peed there and all right it actually relieves the universe it's home it's hot something very hot flowing around there and and you get a psychologically high it's going to become all right just sharing a very again very urban non-adventurous perspective with you yeah but um we had a recent trip to dubai for the sake of youtube vlogs like we were trying to you know get some experiences in dubai mall has this big aquarium where they allow you to actually dive with a really large sharks on you at least what is large in my perspective they would have been at least six six and a half feet sharks uh they don't really come very very close to you as and they'll swim past you if you put your handle you'll be able to touch them uh you know and there's a lot of um what's it called uh not stingrays but manta rays also ranges yeah which will swim really close to you


also ranges yeah which will swim really close to you in that aquarium which is very strange for someone like i'm not even a trainer i have actually encountered but not in a dangerous manner i've seen it suing pastors and against the violence yeah um i remember telling my uh my buddy who's also my co-founder we decided to do this experience he was very upright i was scared because i have this fear of like sharks and he said that no no let's do it will be a life experience once we actually got in um so i'm i'm a trained swimmer and i was very comfortable in the water and these animals were swimming past and the energy i sensed from them was honestly a little sad when they were in that aquarium i think they were very aware about the fact that they're not in the open ocean okay so i sensed like a little i don't want to say sad energy but literally like oh look at us we're like you know stuck here it was like


we're like you know stuck here it was like kind of like that energy i'm a little lazy and i confirmed it with a uh european friend of mine who dives actively and they said that yeah these animals are behaving different from the animals we see out there in the ocean yeah my question to you is what is the energy and the vibe of like the animals that you encounter like are they in their own zones are they aggressive are they just living life and like exploratory see i'm i'm not into research on this subject whatever i've read see it is very simple if it is not your food then why will it person try to that animal try to attack you that's number one thing they all are uh domain specific animals so anybody intrudes it's an intruder an intruder is like a trespasser so obviously he's threatened more than that that animal is certain more than you are certain so now but the third and most important thing is that they can sense whether you are scared or not the


they can sense whether you are scared or not the electrical impulse of your what are the variables here if they can sense like they say if a shark encounters you i mean they told you they used to tell us but you know used to just feel key i mean if a shark encounters you you just stay there don't try to swim away stay there next to the shark because invariably what happens uh seals and the turtles are the food of sharks when a diver when a person swimming on surface in a diverse diving underwater the silhouette is like uh those animals so shah cannot differentiate that's why if he's hungry the shark is hungry going attack and it doesn't attack singularity you know it's like you know feeding frenzies there more than one shark is there but uh it is said that any animal if he senses that you are scared he'll try to make you scare more you see this even with city dogs yes people were just afraid of dogs and they


dogs yes people were just afraid of dogs and they kind of act like the dog will actually come and try to scare you so while i'm not a you know analyst psychological analyst of animals but i can i can just relate to what i've read about animals and on ground to the same thing underwater have you done that ever have you been in a situation where you had to stay an animal in the eye and just tell the animal to back off but dogs yes in underwater underwater underwater morale yes once it happened you know i mean we did 10 days driving camp so this was one of the encounters we had many more encounters so now we knew that you know if you morally looking at you look at him but not from very close and we are not adventure seekers you know we are doing our own business we actually do training and so it's invariably seen that when you lock your eyes with the other person or when an animal there is some amount of stillness and uh then


animal there is some amount of stillness and uh then as you've seen a lot of uh national geographic also they charcoal somehow so my way or something or something so my experience is only one but i think uh it does play a role your psychological uh things does play a role you need to tell the animal who the predator is who the predator is oh you're till then look i'm actually i'm not in any way trying to harm you something like that oh what's the biggest thing you saw under water the biggest thing i saw underwater is uh manta ray okay mantra was pretty big the tail was very long i i thought month aways are playful but they're not why did you think they played for aye because you know actually uh psychological month array the the design of the i mean the way it is shaped i feel like there's a elephant uh years you know it's it's like the equivalent of thinking hippos are cute and then you find out that the they're responsible for


then you find out that the they're responsible for the most human actually hippos are the most dangerous animals yeah and we always thought hippodams because you know whatever you see in comics it gets on into your into your psyche and you feel hippos are but when you read about it they've got as you rightly say the maximum human deaths have been caused in the nile you know because of hippos have you had any operations near africa not me but my our teams have gone to somalia those days uh not otherwise any other place okay see india is not a country which is given to you know participating in all kind of expeditionary warfare or we don't even side with any other country we only work when there's a u.n mandate without even mandate we don't form uh we do not cooperate with any other country for doing any operation have you been in hand-to-hand combat situations i have not been to hand to hand but i've caught a terrorist who just bit a cyanide in my hand


terrorist who just bit a cyanide in my hand when i was holding him and for the first time my life you know the ltd guys they have a cyanide capsule hanging in the neck so he was being pinched down from the helicopter and i was with my ak-47 and the the moment he uh bit the sign i realized he's also ltd he did not uh that time he must have escaped how long does it take to kick in about 45 seconds and he just fell down a six-foot guy handsome guy and muscular chap and he just like a fish out of water he reached for about 45 seconds some kind of froth came out one of my sailors was a medical medic he actually tried to jump and give him mouth to mouth association i said what the hell is this why he will also die so i mean see what happens uh people in the armed forces are not criminal back minded people we are normal human beings we respect each other we fire at somebody because we know


respect each other we fire at somebody because we know that if you don't fire at somebody he's going to kill you so but when you see a person lying like this he's unarmed and disliked the tendency for you to help him so i guess that is the reason which drove the seller to try to help him but of course better sense prevailed and we were there and we pulled him out that was my first encounter with death i've never seen before that how old were you i was just about 28 28 29 just out of my marine commando course perhaps if i had not done my marine commandos out of me shattered actually but after you do a marine commando course they they simulate situations where they take you to a near death situation you know in the training itself so you get more hardened are you comfortable sharing what the near situation in the sense that uh there is something called the hell week which they do uh they you know they make you float and with your hands and legs tied


make you float and with your hands and legs tied one part of the train not the healthy hell because i mean if you can google it you can find out what is hell week it's actually 96 hours of non-stop no sleep uh physical regime 96 you don't sleep for not a wink also they give you only one two hours in the morning to go shave and do your morning routines and very new dang green come and again continue with the training or lifting up logs and swimming long distance swimming firing doing obstacle course this continues for 96 hours without a breather you only get food thrice in a day do you get plenty of water do you not hallucinate see it doesn't happen in the initial part of the course it happens somewhere in the middle of the end part of the course so by which time the people got used to it human body is very valuable you know we can actually and everything is mental you know you need to have a basic uh you know uh level of physical


have a basic uh you know uh level of physical fitness thereafter is all mental so there are people who get hallucinate there are people and they give up also but i've not seen very many people giving up in the marine commander at least why didn't you give up i didn't give up because i didn't have the feeling of giving up you were just in a flow and you know in our health week was not that organized so i guess the hell we which happened now is much more stringent we were having i would say the casual version of the hell week we had a different way 18 hours of diving underwater that is dangerous actually it is it's actually this is for the body but it saps you one hour of diving is equal to eight hours of physical labor on on surface yeah so that's it saps you but then in the body with the so much of training you do you get used to this thing and let me also tell you the people who volunteer with this course have


tell you the people who volunteer with this course have decided that we will do this they have visualize what they want to become and also a glamour factor for youngsters there's a lot of glamour factor attached to it you'll do skydiving you'll do paratrooping you'll do karate you'll fire with weapons and all these two roll and fire and you know roll back and fire pistol and all then we have something called the room intervention drill i'm just giving at random start of training so room intervention is basically you're simulating a situation where how do you do hostage rescue so there there the mud walls they made mud for seven eight rooms they went very complicated structure with the first floor and all and they put cutouts of two heads you know uh one is red and one is green now they give you 12 seconds you do you you have to go inside with six uh commandos and the six buddies total twelve and you have to sanitize these and everything in a matter of 12


to sanitize these and everything in a matter of 12 to 14 seconds so you have to get inside kick the door open see the target and you have to hit and both the shots because the calculation is that in four seconds you have to hit two shots because when people get startled they remain startled for four seconds after that they get the sense and then they can react so within that period of four seconds you have to fight two shots and we have trained to such a level that both the shot has to be headshot that means the green and red cutout there should not be any holes in the green you'll fail and here the past percentage is 95 percent shooting and you have cross shootings and all you know people shooting from there you're shooting from there it's a situation where if you do a mistake probably some guy can actually have collateral damage even in training even in training and then you have night exercises actually when you do sliding grappling when you do parallel they're all high risk activities you're


you do parallel they're all high risk activities you're diving under water at night you're diving underwater and so the animals you talked about so many of them are dangerous it becomes more dangerous it becomes more dangerous but you know the funny part is the best part is when you're doing training you don't feel like this you never feel an element of risk or apprehension you feel guilty why because you have faith on the way the training has been conducted number one number two we have tremendous amount of faith on the instructors because they are very well trained number three you have actually a lot of confidence self-confidence on yourself and number four on your body these four combinations are very deadly and potent combination it holds you in very good state you mentioned that if you hadn't gone through hell week you wouldn't have been able to deal with death in the sense that uh not only the hell week the entire course it actually you see they're all building blocks they're all building blocks so once uh


all building blocks they're all building blocks so once uh those things happen then you know that amongst the armed forces people you are a niche and elite force your cutting edge has to be maintained you'll be the first to go in and may not be the first to come out so you have that kind of aura in you know so then you psych yourself mentally that look i am the best and i the government of india expects a lot of things from me as they may not be expecting from other people so the aspect of being fearful being scared is actually redundant it doesn't come only in any case if you're fearful it is a good emotion because if you're fearful then then you start planning and you know thinking in a more analyzing the things much better and that helps in safety and security of you and your people you know um while i have countless more questions uh there's some questions i'm saving for a hindi episode as well okay but before we begin that one so


as well okay but before we begin that one so i have one last phase of this particular episode okay which is uh related to 26 11. okay um you know it's a topic that the english audiences have wondered more about since we did an episode with d shivanandan yeah uh who was actually the strategist post 2611 he made mumbai a safer place now you were involved in that operation in some capacity while it was happening are you comfortable narrating aspects of it through your own that i can do because it's an operation which is an open domain so i can actually do on in october 20th october we came to bombay i was uh i got a prestigious appointment as a direct staff in naval war college now directory staff is like you are a teacher in a war college and the naval war college there are captains who are captain miss are naval captains equal to army kernels they're all about 40 to 43 years old guys bubbling with energy and intelligence level is high


guys bubbling with energy and intelligence level is high and you are now trying to manage them as an instructor so it's a prestigious appointment and uh co-located uh to our war college was the uh the biggest marine commando unit in the indian navy so next month november this thing happened so when uh when what happens you know any marine commando unit any armed force unit has got something called a qrt quick reaction team which is standby marine commanders have got a few elements called the prahars which are always ready to move in half an hour for any to meet any contingency so they had about a couple of people who were ready at any point in time that day on 26th 28th was november was the birthday on 26th uh we certainly switched on the tv around 9 00 we found there some had something happening in taj and something happened in scion hospital and also in the in the beauty station we decided i think everything station so people thought it could be a


think everything station so people thought it could be a gang war or some kind of things but uh later on as things unfolded they realize skate is a bit more than the gang board what was your first gut feeling my gut feeling was that we should be ready and uh and and deploy at around 11 30 or 12 we were told that uh and now guys were there they saw they they all guys came to the unit and you surprisingly some uh some retired marine commando sailors who also stay in the same area they all reported to the united kisser now we've just been out for one year we are still in date we can do firing and all if there is a requirement we are available civilians marine experiencing command of civilians imagine that imagine the josh in the enthusiasm anyway we wouldn't have taken them but they were there then our teams were mobilized without knowing head and tail of what is happening at around 12 30 at night they reached mumbai


at around 12 30 at night they reached mumbai and there was a lot of chaos there and the team were told to enter so teams entered they entered and you know the ground floor of the taj was all chaos mayhem a lot of people dead you know all those people who've seen pastry and all those kind of people lying dead some people actually very seriously injured and all so it startles people you know young marcos who have never been to a five star because you can't afford to go to faster like this never you don't even know the layout of the place you don't know anything about that place you don't even know what the situation uh how is this issue evolving but you just went because you were told to go because it was it became like a uh you know situation critical so you have to do something the other people are not coming inside because obviously you know they're not trained for it so our guys went inside and uh they started clearing every each and every room


and uh they started clearing every each and every room so they were able to save a lot of people and escort them back the people who were dead were lying there because there's no point because you can actually you know you have to see who's the people who can be actually you know retrieved and they can still live and like that they went i think in our third or fourth floor at night they were trying to then the good part is the taj hotel staff were very brave they were accompanying the marine commando units and later on also the nsg they were very helpful they were not scared but they knew the layout so they were they were with these teams so they went to they were told that in the in the conference room there is uh there is some report of some terrorist and uh so these guys went and outside there was light inside was dark so they opened the door the moment you opened the door the light from outside went inside so unknowingly to them there were three or four


so unknowingly to them there were three or four terrace inside the room they had done initial killing initially thereafter they were trying to recuperate before they start the next phase of operation so they suddenly found somebody coming inside and the moment one of my uh the commando sailor went inside and see there's a drill by which you go inside so we have we follow buddy pace one guy went is the second guy was outside and the other five six people are lined up behind he heard a talking of ak-47 and he realized he loved they're under grief because there's somebody who's cocking airports we were using mp5s so there's a distinct noise of mp5 caulking and ak portion cocking and then there was a volume of fire from the other side and this guy got hit somewhere in his this this part and also in his clavicle fortunately not fatal and he just slumped down when that happened the other guys told not to come inside the room because then it would


not to come inside the room because then it would have been a problem because now they are in a advantageous position they can see with this light behind you and they can actually take a pot shot so they all went out this guy was laying down he took out a grenade and chucked it under the terrorist and the grenade did not burst now this hotel staff told this is the only exit from this room so these guys actually laid a you know position themselves so that when the terrorists come out of the room they will be shot but they did not know and also the staff did not know that there's another exit from behind so those three four terrorists were there and see when he fired with a terrorist fight this guy also had got hit he also fired and then the second buddy who's that he also fired so but these are all aimless fighting you know because at night you can't see anything and it was aimless and now you see you you only wear a night


and now you see you you only wear a night sight when they're on in a dark atmosphere if you are working in a hotel where the lights are on you can't get a night sight because it'll actually the image intensified tube of the night side will get spoiled your eyes will also get damaged so they were not wearing a nightstand at that point time as they entered the room so this guy fell down and everyone fired they also fired at the volley of fire then there was firing stopped these guys jumped out and went somewhere else then one of the guys came and chucked a even the terrorists they chucked the chinese grenade and that also didn't burst now imagine if the grenade had burst then all the terrorists would have been dead but this guy also would have been dead but in the heat of the moment it happened then it was pulled out now what has happened is that the terrorists encountered a special force which they were not expecting because as thing


special force which they were not expecting because as thing turned out later on extensive planning was done by mr healy headley and all those people they would have done the wreck of the ontario they would have known that energy actually is in monaster delhi it will take x amount of time for them to come to bombay and then and bombay traffic and all those things and you know is priority given or not all these are issues which are linked up issues so they would have easily got a breather of four to five hours from the time they actually start uh doing the killing till the time the terrorists can actually the force can be bought to bear upon them that was a maybe in their mind and secondly this was not a anti-terror it was not a hostage situation it was like a war because they had come to kill only they knew that they'll perish so they were just killing left right and center but when the marcos entered and the firefight took place that was the first firefight so


firefight took place that was the first firefight so these guys jumped out the guy was hurt he left his uh weapon in his pack and jumped out so this pack and weapon was recovered then they realized it is it is not a gang gang warfare any longer it is actually a terrorist operation and then they read the entire thing it is pakistani things so then the situation totally changed now meanwhile the other uh no reinforcement of marine commandos came from the unit and they became so four perhaps means uh 32 people entered taj and 16 people entered trident also overall trident and then they started searching room to room the terrorists who were the other hunters became the hunted so almost the killing stopped now they were running for the life because they realized okay now they are i mean they don't know how many people they the moment you have a firefight with their force with wearing black dress and all these helmets and all they would have seen it they would like it now they are


have seen it they would like it now they are cornered and it is not one two it may be thirty 40 hundred for all you know so then they started running thereafter it is recorded that uh the killing actually stopped so the the marine commandos intervention at that point in time helped in disrupting the timelines what they would have setting for themselves and like that they operated till this this encounter took place at 3 4 in the morning means on 27 early morning then they continued working and by 9 30 10 they had almost cleared almost everyone was cleared they had rescued about 160 odd people the marine command of this small force of about 16 or 32 had rescued about 150 150 and 160 people and i am whereas their equipment they were helped by the by the staff of the tarjan i think kudos to the staff of the taj hotel they were very brave and they all got them out then next day morning the nsg came and see energy this is the core uh area


came and see energy this is the core uh area of the nsc so this is this kind of operation is a core you know area of the energy and just a word about energy energy stands for national security guards so they come under minister of home affairs energy has got basically two elements and one is the special ranges group and one is the special action group so special rangers group comprises of people from the paramilitary forces and they look after a lot of other things including the vip security they look after but the core fighting is done by the special action group which is purely 100 armed forces people and uh they do a training of three four months is a very rigorous training and then they are on depreciation for three to four years when they do this anti-terrorist operation and hijacking operations so there are two elements within within the special action group it is called sag 51 sag51 which is anti-terrorist operations and sag52 is anti-hijacking operations the anti-hijacking cooperation is one of the most complicated


anti-hijacking cooperation is one of the most complicated operations amongst all special operations so the force which came there was from scg-51 they came and they landed early in the morning then by bst buses they came to the area of the area where the event was happening and thereafter they pressed into operation they took over one two hours for getting the gen general information about and the orientation from the marine commandos would spend the whole night there and for some time even the marine commandos along with the uh the security staff of the hotel they helped them out and once the energy there is a very trained force is is a is one of the best train force we have in our country or maybe in the world and they did the operation in good time did you end up going to the locations of the incidents after it happened uh after it happened once i went and visited but see what happened that the role of the marine commandos was not known to many people so when barack obama came to


to many people so when barack obama came to india following this thing i think next day he came and he because he gets a huge security entourage from his own country and he also get his own aircraft as well as also the helicopter called the marine one so he landed in tsar and the governor didn't allow them to use weapons so government india said key we will give you all support any other forces can come they said we want only marine commandos so you will be surprised to know that the only force elected in india by the government of india and by the u.s was marine commander they had so much of faith after this operation because the new reality and uh so you have pictures of you know the helicopter landing in uh one of the naval bases which is very close to inside koloba marine one came and barack obama coming out and all in the very inner security circle the marine commandos it is an it is uh something which doesn't happen because when the u.s president


which doesn't happen because when the u.s president is there for about two three killed the whole area standardized they don't find any other person but as an exception here they allowed and agreed to have marine commandos as the inner security accord which is a great thing that's number one number two then they they went to taj and the first lady michelle obama she wanted to meet a couple of people who participated in the operation and amongst the naval people she wanted to meet the marine commandos so what i'm trying to say is that these people just don't call at people at random they do a lot of thorough research so they would have got to know exactly uh who are the people see now i'm not saying that we the marine commander i would say we because i'm part of the many commandos i'm not saying that i was the one who did the operation and you know nobody gave us the accolades no i'm not saying that i'm saying that uh it's a


saying that i'm saying that uh it's a team work and a lot of people work together but how much people worked who organized it that is an issue here the people who have got keen iron who are initiated into special operation will actually know and secondly like a heart attack or any other medical calamity emergency there is something called the golden period so like if you got a heart issue within one two hours if you are able to take a person to the hospital and under effective medical care you can save the person same thing happens in terrorist operations also the first two three hours are very crucial if you are able to at that two three hours if you are able to enter and encounter the force the the terrorists then they become the defensive then the gravity of the damage is limited and restrained yeah so that is the job i think the marine commandos did of course there are other people who also worked alongside with they were anti-terrorist squad of the mumbai police also came but then


squad of the mumbai police also came but then they were not equipped for this kind of heavy heavy-duty operation so they they accompanied them after they pulled out and the staff of the taj was always there then the army has gotten out and later on the energy came and energy are masters in this they did a fantastic job yeah you know so from an international perspective a lot of people all over the world know about navy seals just because of how much navy seals are out there and i'm talking about the american version of marine commandos i think it's about time the world gets to know about the greatness of indian marine commandos or the marcos and that's a huge reason for us even wanting to do this particular episode for that i am very thankful to you because by this medium we got a huge reach four five million people and i'm sure that people will now get to know a little bit more a wee bit more about what navy is all about and what marine command is


what navy is all about and what marine command is all about yes sir and it's just the beginning honestly like i feel generally the indian population is very inclined towards learning about the armed forces but we've not got a correct medium okay so through this series we've done on military board because i've got to learn so much as genuine questions i have with a little bit of animal danger and all that added in but uh it's genuinely like an honor even like listening to you learning to not just you or any armed forces veteran i think of all the podcasts that i do uh you all have the most uh wide life in terms of experiences in terms of going to the depth of life in terms of coming that close to that level of danger these kind of perspectives are not there in other professions so yeah actually it's nice that you feel like that about the armed forces per se but if you are very frankly every professional has got its own high points and low points every profession