future yes my question is what is the device to be able to throw it yeah so this is uh currently we don't have it I mean basically the all the devices which can transmit information uh if you make it Advanced you can do that but currently we don't have it but one one second so I'm so sorry I'm interrupting and this is just to understand it better I'm a telecom engineer and I've learned how you transmit information from one device to another device and it's not as simple as people think people visualize it as a laser comes out of one device probably carries information so when you're actually making a phone call to someone also Telecom engineering is at play where your voice is broken up into tiny bits yeah and then sent from one device your mobile phone to the mobile Tower mobile Tower to mobile center then another mobile Tower then the other person's phone very rudimentary explanation yeah so you're saying that if a device is powerful enough it can actually not just transmit to another location in


it can actually not just transmit to another location in space but also in time but also in time in future but when you say powerful enough do you mean a very high voltage or something oh no it's not just powerful but it's also the technological capability see currently if you if you look at realistically in our current time period as of 2023 we have the capability to map the uh like uh human thoughts brain verbs you can actually and there are certain devices where you think you can move the mouse of a cursor mouse cursor on a on a laptop so that kind of capabilities are there so that means now you have a rudimentary level of capability to map some of your human thoughts and transmit it into a external device and then you can do it for actuation ETC so there is a brain based Control Systems everything available just like uh in a virtual reality device if you have seen you can use your eyes and you can control your uh the 3D objects Etc or you can create a menu if


objects Etc or you can create a menu if there is a menu you can control the menu and you can do a lot of things just by looking and the advanced version of is that you just think about it you don't have to look about it look at it you have to think about like you want to move the mouse on a particular like if you want a coffee so you have a coffee machine and it's an augmented reality based in menu is in front of you uh you want coffee means you can move the mouse onto the coffee button click on it then you get the coffee this already exists it's already there this kind this much kind of things are already there and they've done this by mapping brain waves brain waves when you think about or move in the right direction or move towards the top Direction a particular part of your brain lights up the sensor picks up which part of your brain is lit up yeah and then sends the signal to the device saying oh this person is thinking about moving the cursor


saying oh this person is thinking about moving the cursor to the top right yeah and this is itself is very technologically a leap because uh this machine is able to decipher the coordinate you know what is the kind of motion like left left to right top or to which amount you have to move all these things are able to get coordinated into the machine okay so that's a very good level of capability so the advanced version of it is that assume that you have got a cooperation of a future uh like entity like uh maybe 21st or 23rd century is throwing the 23rd Century yeah okay so you can act uh so then your robotics everything will be Advanced to such a level that uh you will be able to have a robotic brain which can absorb everything a human brain is capable of so that means it can download the entire human brain's memory as well as human brains thought onto its own brain so you can have electronic or artificially created robots which have assemble like assemble you like of course uh


which have assemble like assemble you like of course uh facial resemblance is already available you can actually create a robot of exactly looking like you facially it is possible so uh you have a your own uh like uh what do you call it it is something like you can use the word avatar for example but it's not in the sense of uh Avatar in a metaverse but it's like a physical robot which is actually ready to embody you know but how will you send it in the future again like as in when you're seeing a powerful device to be able to send information into the future is it through a wormhole yeah here this is this is we use a Quantum tunneling kind of concept so it's a it's a kind of a wormhole but it's a Quantum tunnel okay like a micro black hole Yeah it's like a uh you can create a local Black Hole uh in your in your device I mean uh the quadrant collateral Etc that they are actually like leading towards that so you can


they are actually like leading towards that so you can actually uh like uh create a wormhole a local wormhole in your in your in your own space time okay and you can direct it to any any point in your future so once the Wormhole is ready sending information is easier than sending the entire human body yeah to that future because I believe that according to the theory of how wormholes work yeah if you throw Mass through a wormhole the Wormhole collapses yes uh so therefore just throwing a laser in without any mask but just with information actually might be able to be a transfer of uh data into the future so you are only transmitting data and data is electromagnetic verse so it's like uh and you can go in the spirit of light Through the Wormhole and reach the other other part so and there is a receiver so this particular what I have designated as Avatar it can also be called as a receiver so it's a receiver of your Consciousness so then the first time I'm using the


Consciousness so then the first time I'm using the word Consciousness because nobody has defined it yeah so currently we can already Define it as like for example my Consciousness is nothing but my memory which is a lot of data and my thoughts so once these two things are transmitted then I am transmitting my Consciousness understood like that you know people don't talk about crop circles as much anymore it used to be a very hot topic 15 years ago when I was in school everyone used to talk about crop circles because of this movie called signs uh it was about aliens again but malevolent aliens you know evil aliens yes uh and I remember seeing some Discovery and Nat Geo shows where the end of the episode they would actually show a guy saying yeah I went out there in my field in the evening and me and my cousin crop circle so the whole show leads you up to getting excited about what crop circles and other aliens are at the end of the episode they kind of throw


at the end of the episode they kind of throw water on your fire of excitement by saying oh humans created this yeah but you're saying that yeah if you ask them to do it again they probably won't be able to yeah I am uh actually I am making very factual here because I don't want to make any kind of statements uh which I have considered like I am like an authoritative statement yeah what I'm saying is there are there were some core crop circles and many people came and said that we created like a group of four or five people said that we created it they were not able to recreate it that much I am telling you know anybody can take any inference from that yeah see somebody uh their crops are circled getting created I mean that is a reality people can take photograph it's not like UFO it is on the ground you can take photograph everything and the question comes how it is created nobody can able to explain it and there are different ways the people try


explain it and there are different ways the people try to create it it's all the it will be like a Shabby kind of job that has been happening how do you create something that's symmetric that perfect yes yes um okay what do you think they are for crop circles yeah that's a very important question because anyway I put some one or two years on the crop circle as part of my curiosity really yeah okay so what I have felt is that this crop circle has very much similarity with semantic patterns semantic patterns are the patterns that create uh when uh like for example just one example is you you take a copper rod and there is some water uh in a copper ball and you something copper like copper spoon for example you make a hit right create a pattern in the water that is a pattern of the sound sound vibrations so these patterns uh will be like which is very similar like floral patterns that you make uh when you are you know in Malayalam in Kerala you have pukalam and


in Malayalam in Kerala you have pukalam and in uh Maharashtra you have rangoli so that kind of that kind of very beautiful and traditionally looking kind of patterns will start emerging because pure because of sound vibration sound can create that kind of pattern and there are people who have studied omkara the sound of omkara and other mantras how it creates this kind of you know beautiful traditional looking patterns in sand uh on in water and other medium so I'm sorry I can't help myself sorry sorry go on yeah yeah so the when we study the crop circle patterns are matching with the cymatic patterns and Rangoli kind of patterns or any kind of traditional patterns cymatics uh then crop circle they have match okay so we know why we are creating the uh the Rangoli it's like it's create an auspicious Aura around your premises it's like swasti uh that that is well create a well-being uh yeah I we've had archaeologists on the show who've spoken a lot about archaeological and historical


who've spoken a lot about archaeological and historical symbols they say that a lot of ancient structures contained a lot of symbols because lots of cultures believe that symbols actually have an ability to capture power now again what is the science behind this I have no idea you're the scientist I'm sure you've thought of this also that yeah even in the world of Tantra when we use the word yantra it's basically a symbol that represents God it's the equivalent of praying to a murti a statue in the same way that a statue might contain some kind of divine energy maybe even a symbol contains some kind of divine energy correct so ah another way to put it is like our ancient people have an idea about uh certain patterns that can create a physical well-being and healing power maybe an electromagnetic field of sorts or a change in the EM field um I think it has more to do with of course like em filled but modded with their Consciousness okay uh because uh for that I need


Consciousness okay uh because uh for that I need to say a few more things because Consciousness is considered as the fifth I after all the four forces if there is anything left that is consciousness you mean four dimensions Force another electromagnetic uh Electro like uh the gravitational then uh nuclear uh then weak nuclear forces and electromagnetic forces there are four forces okay and of course there some of them are joined together into one like Electro weak Force etcetera but people were cons thinking is there anything as a fifth and that fifth is the Consciousness that is what Quantum Consciousness theory is saying the fifth uh entity which is similar to the forces is the Consciousness so Consciousness we can consider is not appropriate to call it as a force but it is something similar to the force like your from magnetic or gravitational or weak nuclear forces this is a four this is a kind of operating attribute of the universe so this particular pattern actually heals the Consciousness boarding electromagnetic of course but


heals the Consciousness boarding electromagnetic of course but your own Consciousness gets healed that is what you look when you look at your pattern one Rangoli or a hookah that same thing you feel so these aliens or whoever is creating it I don't put an agency here whichever intelligence is creating this crop circle they are creating some healing power in the on the planet Earth so in question for you is to the scientist in you again uh I know that science doesn't have a definition for Consciousness and everyone has different opinions on what it is uh because you also have this whole dharmic side is Vedic side I'd love to know what you think about Consciousness as a scientist and then connected to this whole crop circle and Rangoli thing the Western uh thought westerners like for a long period of time they have thought Consciousness as an emergent property of the systems so any system which is complicated enough will have certain attributes and properties which are more than the sum total of their accountable properties


are more than the sum total of their accountable properties so for example uh human body human body is aggregate of so many number of cells and but after joining all together it has got a separate attributes and existence so they thought that a lot of things come together okay even computer for example uh transistors everything come together then it creates a kind of a experience of a computer so they thought our universe the Consciousness can be created by assembling things Etc and this is called the concept of Consciousness as an emergent property that is it emerges a new attribute when you combine together a lot of simpler systems and make complex systems three four level of complexity then Consciousness just emerged but then this Theory got a big beating from the last uh like I'd say two decades from 2000 onwards visited because this emergent property Theory reached nowhere people started looking at brain different parts of the brain and try to find when the Consciousness comes etcetera that that biological studies reach nowhere


comes etcetera that that biological studies reach nowhere they're still going on but there is no conclusion Etc then there are certain people like Roger Penrose and Mark hammeroff these are like quantum theories scientists working in the area of quantum theory and they started formulating certain theories that Consciousness uh like because the emergent emergent Consciousness and emergent property it is not giving any result so then let us we think consider Consciousness as an attribute of the universe and then things started emerging for example um we already have the quantum theory principle like like they all this uh what you call collapse of the quantum wave function that you are familiar with that is basically everything that is there in the universe exists as a probability Cloud as in only when you look at it it exists so for example whether there is a there is an electron or not so the universe don't say that there is an electron or no electron it already said that there is a probability of having an electron in this


there is a probability of having an electron in this particular location for example everything is a combination of atoms together and electrons together uh so these plants actually only plants when we turn towards them and look at them is it a fair assessment of the theory yeah I mean that is one way the uh many people look at it but actually this particular there or not thing works mostly in some automatic level it is more true in a subatomic level okay in the electron level not in our realm Yeah in our realm it is there is very difficult to make something is there or not of course the Schrodinger cat experiment Etc is there but mostly it is mathematically more palatable in the subatomic level so it was you can actually for an electron you can ask this question so if we were able to shrink ourselves down to a subatomic level then this Theory would exist so it you you are correct in a way because we are all like our entire human body is made of atoms in which you have electrons so


is made of atoms in which you have electrons so there are electrons that we are talking about so of course when the electron is not there and large number of electrons are not there you your cells just not there I mean that kind of situation will come but more productively it is in the quantum or sub atomatic level so you have a probability right uh so uh subatomic particle is mostly like electrons and quarks quarks are the components making the protons and neutron all of them are defined by probability waves and if the something has to be like from the from the level of probability it's like a cloud it's something like you have to consider something like a vapor kind of thing from that probability if something has to be concretely uh realized then somebody need to observe it so then you have an act of observation so till the point of this quantum theory is principle of Act of observation every scientist thought that me as a scientist or an observer is independent of whatever happening in the


an observer is independent of whatever happening in the universe but from that point onwards it becomes very clear your Consciousness plays a role in creation because see till the time of this Ervin schroding this Stephen Hawkins for example just they put out this Theory and they were not thinking anything further they said okay probiotic wave function will give you a concrete object like a electron when you start observing it and they left it in but it has got a bigger consequence which only that there is a H whose Foundation is in vedanta basically so in the vedanta like for example if you look at us principle you there is a kind of a theory Theory means it is a part of the Veda like whatever the entire universe doesn't exist s it is not existing only when you are like ready to observe it there it is our it is there so that is the principle of advaitha when you when you look at it you see it otherwise it's not there that that kind of a concept


otherwise it's not there that that kind of a concept now there is uh no existence other than in your own consciousness so it is like uh if you ask foreign they will say the entire universe of multiple people multiple people talking to each other everything is here on man like coming out from your own Consciousness you create that like that that is saying and if you look at the quantum theory of probability wave collapse collapse of the quantum wave say it is same thing so that connect is established uh very recently basically Consciousness is the source that creates reality correct correct yes So when you say a Quantum probability Cloud collapse into a reality when somebody observe it basically you are pointing to the Consciousness okay the Consciousness is uh observing and creating the reality how did we reach this conversation over Consciousness no I can't remember because we enter a very deep Rabbit Hole yeah uh okay but let's come out to human level yeah I do have some questions about ISRO for you again yeah um


have some questions about ISRO for you again yeah um while I've enjoyed the heck out of this conversations I think you are one of the coolest people you've had on the show like you have so much to share with the world and I before we move into the rest of the vodkas I want to highlight that you've written a bunch of books related to vedanta as well and I find it incredible that you're an ISRO scientist who has now written books in vedanta and that's what we've had uh other scientists on the show he also keeps highlighting vedanta so there's got to be some stuff in Vedic literature which is very parallel with quantum physics and astrophysics and all these sub objects that you are dealing with am I right correct correct yeah okay the thing is we are living in a period I mean I can say exactly from 2010 to last 10 years we are living in a period wherein there is lot of synergy between vedantic insides and Quantum Consciousness studies you mean


insides and Quantum Consciousness studies you mean in the world of science people are understanding oh this is already there in the world of vedanta yes yes so there is a lot of of course it was there for example Albert Einstein of red bhagavad-gita and Erwin Schrodinger and this uh Paul Dirac all these people have full understanding about uh Advanta everything so it's not something that has been started now but earlier they were very skeptical so this all happened in 1900 1920s Etc and the last 70 years people were still talking the both ways uh saying vedanta is different Quantum the Consciousness theory different Etc but now after a lot of back and forth they are more and more converging and acknowledging the kind of similarities in the thought process the most important being the collapse of the wave function and the role of the observer in collapsing the wave function is equivalent to the vedantic point of view that Consciousness create the real the reality from a cloud of uncertainty okay


real the reality from a cloud of uncertainty okay so they are now together and that is why you see a lot of people many scientists will be talking about Quantum uh like uh sorry vedanta and vedan this will talk about quantum physics as much of the level they have they will understand it okay like that IO books also dealing with similar subjects um actually like there is some difference the whatever actual two books I have written is one is on rigveda that is called reverse of rigveda and another one is on ramayana that is the geography of Ramana so my focus is on the geography of the Ramana part okay and as you said I have like on the subject of vedanta I have written articles but the books are primarily on the weather in Ramana okay and it is a kind of a Trilogy basically so I have created a book on uh and of course the topic is little different because it's on the geographical aspect of Rick whether the reverse as well as the historical chronological aspect


the reverse as well as the historical chronological aspect of regular and it is continuity in valmigiramana and it's continuity further into Mahabharata so these three things uh three text time connecting into a thread a single thread okay and finding the chronological and geographical continuity from regular to ramayana to Mahabharata so that's the books all about crazy we will link them down below uh I have a few more questions about ISRO also so yeah uh I don't think too many people have an understanding of ISRO other than the fact that it's a very budget friendly organization like in very small budgets ISRO is able to do a lot uh it's able to build extremely advanced technology yeah uh what are some of the projects that you guys are currently doing whatever you can talk about in the public domain I'm sure there's a ton you can't yeah um but whatever whatever is in public domain itself is huge uh one is uh there is uh the currently active project is like trying to get one human person into


project is like trying to get one human person into the space so that's called gaganyan of course it's when you look at from the point of view of uh NASA has done it before but there is lot of excitement in our country doing it right so that kind of things are going on so as part of gaganyan uh you need to have a capsule uh that is a that is capable of uh sustaining a human being while it is it is in space flight so that is one there so there is a gekkanian capsule which will actually finally go as a payload to one of the largest launch Vehicles Mark III eslv Mark III Etc so instead of a satellite which will be like a payload you will have this module which will have a human being inside that you have the spacesuit everything is covered with spacesuit Etc and this has to um now start from say record it starts to launch from Cricut that is the most ambitious thing that is going on I was part of this software


that is going on I was part of this software simulation studies of the chandrayaan one that is in 2001 software simulations yeah so you have to like uh whenever your spacecraft moves from like release from the uh like a launch vehicle it will be in a Earthbound orbit so it will be a hundred kilometer orbit around Earth and it has to be slowly slowly uh like uh moved to a lunar transitory orbit okay so it's like a h-shaped projector so it's the spacecraft is rotating 100 kilometer height around earth when it is thrust the Retro rockers fire it slowly moves in an eight-shaped orbit and start connecting with the moon and then it starts orbiting Moon and you become a satellite of moon so turning the Earthbound satellite that is a the spacecraft rotating Earth turning it into a satellite of moon so there is a lot of Maneuvers etcetera and it is a very complicated mathematics intensor calculus multi-body problem Etc so that kind of that entire simulation that I


so that kind of that entire simulation that I I actually I was part of that and I was also fortunate to meet apj Abdul Kalam okay as part of that project how is it meeting him it's a very very short meeting uh but uh like I got a chance because I was in trivandrum and uh apj Abdul Kalam was just about to be the president of India some one or two weeks before he became the president of India I was a like I saw the project all the details and he was like highly appreciative of that one what is his Aura like is uh I mean very simple person and some of the things you mentioned about ISRO how they are doing uh economic launches is mainly because of the people uh Abdul Kalama and the people who are in the generation because they were having this uh sounding Rockets Rock any sounding Rockets they were taking on as bicycle so what motivated them is the passion of uh like uh making ISRO succeed even with the


uh like uh making ISRO succeed even with the limited budgets and that kind of culture continued and that is how now we are able to have the we saw is the lowest budget uh kind of uh space launching organization which can launch a spacecraft to Mars lesser than the budget of a Hollywood movie about Mars it's crazy yeah that's what we're proud of Israel for all of India yeah and the another thing uh the gaganyani is one then there is another react reattempt to uh because second the chandrayaan two little slightly failure because the plan was to actually on like launch on the surface of moon but it didn't succeed but the orbit everything happened uh so chandran to the retake that is the the new mission for Chandra again going back to the Moon with a little more technology pieces and then the the other one is the one successful mission of orbit so orbit is easier Landing is little more difficult so Landing is what we are doing and then they are also have suryan


are doing and then they are also have suryan and uh what I have understood is that there is a kind of interest in uh just like what NASA have done uh like props to Mercury and Venus as well so all the neighborhood uh planets okay that we will cover that is the kind of immediate requirement this is over how many years it's a decade like a plan of a decade okay so but uh this uh gaganyan is very much progressing very fast and a lot of different stages of that like uh bringing that the the Space Capsule like whatever capsule it when it falls down after a single one single revolution around Earth with uh like a human human beings it will come down to the uh ocean so you have to get it intact all these studies are happening now experiments everything is going on and is it true that if you all had higher budgets maybe the chandrayaan 2 mission would have been uh successful the way you all wanted it see for India it was still a


all wanted it see for India it was still a successful Mission because India's like backing ISRO like crazy yes but if you all had higher budgets do you think it would have been a success yet the higher budget definitely but uh here uh the The crucial issue was uh some kind of a navigation control system uh which when we when you when it is reaches near to the surface of the uh like mode that uh whatever control and navigation that there was some kind of uh misplay in that like there was the the stability of a spacecraft is based on the Retro Rockets the the rockets that is uh connected to the surface of the spacecraft so uh it's it's something like uh like like uh if the on both the sides of a spacecraft if you have some Thruster going on if the thrust of one rocket is slightly lesser it starts spinning so that spin that kind of spin that is so it's a kind of a technological glitch uh which uh it will be resolved in the next


uh which uh it will be resolved in the next okay and it's basically a kind of thing where experience counts and to attempt it in a faster second kind of uh launch itself is an achievement that's why we consider that launch and run to the orbital is done and then the launching there was a fellow still it is a kind of success it was the similar organizations in NASA or European Space Agency or Russian GK or they have done multiple trials like in case of Chinese they were initial missions were complete failures and but uh our uh this chandrayaan one was the first attempt success which is very rare and uploaded by all the other organizations also so if you look at the total number of Trials the third trial is not a bad thing actually yeah first trial success second trial there is a technical which the trial definitely a stupid question but raw question do the people at ISRO want a lot more funding definitely and you'll have made appeals to the government I'm 100 sure yes but I will not


the government I'm 100 sure yes but I will not be the right person to make any comments on it but definitely more funds uh will uh like uh increase your capacity like for example for any any kind of uh budgeting or you know that funding definitely help but there is one more point I would say there is like now there is a commercial wing for uh Israel as well with the commercial launch launches of the third party satellite Etc so there is some kind of Revenue Source but definitely funding more funding definitely strengthen your entire capability so for example maybe like a big Telecom company like jio will actually pay ISRO to create a satellite to further the telecommunication capabilities yeah the that kind of types are already there because Israel is completely tied up with all the industries that uh the all the different industrial units uh in like uh private Industries though there are tie ups so in a way that is happening but uh I'm will not be the right person to comment on funding uh


not be the right person to comment on funding uh for like in any manner like or the private or government funding uh my honest question not to you but to God is that why don't Indian billionaires fund this there is money lying around it's Rose the pride of the nation so it doesn't make sense to me why Indian billionaires haven't already done this and it's also my own motivation to become an Indian billionaire and to be able to create these changes at some point yeah uh what I do want to highlight is geopolitics a little bit the space agency of a country is very very geopolitically relevant and important because they say that any technology used by the military is actually developed by the space agency of that country or at least the space agency has a massive role to play parallely we had someone called Rajiv Malhotra on the show he's a geopolitical Observer he said that the big place that India is going wrong in its own geopolitical game is not enough r d not


own geopolitical game is not enough r d not enough research and development in order to strengthen our own military Technologies yes we have started to build in India we started to make in India but we need to put in more Firepower more brain power more money basically into this process of developing our own Advanced Weaponry uh ISRO is involved in creating Advanced Weaponry like futuristic weapons things like that um see there are a lot of things in the public domain which I can actually uh underline for example it's not a secret that uh Abdul Kalam was a scientist in ISRO and moved to drdo so uh definitely like uh all the intellectuals are connected and we have a kind of an intellectually cost system for uh all the both the kind of both organizations and uh both like for example it's a proportional technology in both in both of the launch vehicles for space missions or for uh any kind of mission related to defense it's a propulsion technology that is being used so there is a lot of


that is being used so there is a lot of common element it's not as secret every organ every country have the same it is a similar something when you talk about uh NASA or about France it's the similar kind of saying everything is similar like that wow uh one last question for you sir is it true that we are still discovering the total number of planets in our solar system Ah that's uh it's not very exactly true because uh there is a new definition came for the planets based on which Pluto is now demoted as a dwarf planet yep so now the number of planets in solar system will remain eight no but do you think there are undiscovered planets as well of the size of Neptune no see for example the planets of the size of Neptune or even the now Mercury is the smallest planet So to that extent there are nothing to be discovered I can very clear because that definition is very clear it's only because of the definition that a new definition has come from the for


definition that a new definition has come from the for a planet which only consider I mean in that definition only the eight planets will be there that is Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus and Neptune okay uh the kind of objects like Pluto even Cirrus that I talked about is all considered as dwarf planets okay so dwarf planets are Unlimited uh there are like the size the planets of the size of Pluto are very like a lot many of them are there and maybe you are probably talking about a big sized Planet uh which are like bigger than Pluto beyond the uh like the boundaries of Pluto yeah but even those things are also now not considered as a kind of a uh Planet by this particular definition because eccentric orbits which are in a which is in eccentric orbits Etc are considered as part of the old cloud system which is like a IC uh dwarf planetary systems uh but this they are also orbiting around our sun only yeah our sun but they


orbiting around our sun only yeah our sun but they are not uh but they are purely like all the gases are frozen into a kind of ice because no heat reaches that it reaches there and uh the reason is that uh like um its impact like any kind of impact it creates on to the uh like any other inner planets you know I mean it's not not only the four planets but even the planet up to Neptune that is very minimal uh for that kind of so um there may be like uh planets bigger than Pluto which may be like part of your root or Cloud it's very far away secondary is very far away and it's considered as a kind of outer shell of the uh heliosphere so it's something like your asteroidal belt but it's too far away and creating a kind of a shell for your star according to you what's the craziest thing about our solar system the craziest uh thing the weirdest things about this yeah right so there are there are like clear for


yeah right so there are there are like clear for example Uranus is a planet which is like having a pole tilt ah which is directly almost perpendicular to the direction of Sun so it's something like a like a ball rolling uh because it's it's other planets are like 23 24 degree tilt but this is 90 degree tilt etcetera that's about and uh another crazy thing is about the Venus uh which is having an upper Direction opposite rotation so that the sunrise the typical proverb will sun rising in the west and setting in the East will happen uh in that in that kind of planets and then the craziest thing about uh yeah I mean yeah of course then liquid nitrogen uh uh ocean uh like that is the that is discovered in Titan for example and then water even water ice ocean in Europe so now one of the craziest thing I heard is that Europa have more water than Earth yeah yeah which might mean it might have something like sharks or whales or fish for all


something like sharks or whales or fish for all you know uh yeah I mean but at least microbials for sure and uh kind of a new different kind of a cryochemistry like that you know we've had on the show a lot he's an astrophysicist okay and once we did a special on the history of our solar system in terms of from where it began to now okay and if you actually study the history of human life we evolved from fish fish evolved from unicellular organisms yeah but the question is what are the unicellular organisms evolve from and that's actually where science stops that's why scientific understanding solves we don't know how the first amoeba or the first cell actually began on Earth and one of the theories is that it was brought from a comet from another system yeah that's that's a very important Theory because uh current model about uh you know the uh in the planet Earth in the earlier period like uh somewhere around after its formation few billion years uh we were thinking that


its formation few billion years uh we were thinking that uh the ocean became like a poodle of this um a lot of hydrocarbons and then lightning and all the things started creating uh biological life forms but there are a lot of loopholes in that theory where certain because people have simulated that conditions and the hydrocarbons were not forming properly you mean in a lab they tried simulating the same the ancient uh Earth conditions they have simulated and now there is a lot of weightage for this theory of extraterrestrial origin of hydrocarbons which create the live human life form so now as the exactly like you mentioned the Commerce are considered as the Bringers of life because the Comets may be forming in anywhere in the uh Galaxy and there are certain Stars which have died in a previous generation star which are Diet before the the sun they have thrown a lot of hydrocarbons already into the space some of them will be collected by the comets and the common go of common have a bigger


and the common go of common have a bigger orbits longer elliptical orbit so it can go and get connected to another star so in that star when it does such Commerce hit the planet which is habitable this Seeds of Life come from that combat onto the planet and then the life begins so basically our true ancestors are possibly from another solar system okay at least another planet uh like uh that is what that is what I also think that the reality is much more uh strange Than Fiction uh like we were all like we were talking about aliens and I'll be ourselves our own like uh the built up the hierarchical may be extraterrestrial even otherwise see any nitrogen or any Oxygen any kind of elements which are uh like uh other than hydrogen and uh helium they are all created by another star when the universe created only hydrogen was there and the hydrogen slowly became helium and the during the time of big bang and anything else you are seeing including your carbon your oxygen your


else you are seeing including your carbon your oxygen your nitrogen everything has been cooked in another star the previous generation star so even Carl Sagan has famously mentioned your body is extraterrestrial your whatever like chemicals that make up your body is cooked in a star yeah Jiu Jitsu yeah that's it that's the episode for today sure uh how was this podcasting experience for you yeah it was uh wonderful I would say and you have a kind of ability to bring in the a lot of you know like asking exciting questions and it automatically comes from uh from the from the person you are like interviewing no thank you sir uh for me this podcast began as a way to understand isromo but as is the case with any of our episodes I've understood the universe more thanks to people like yourself but also thanks for teaching me about ISRO and I'm looking forward to having more conversations with you sure I'll be linking your books down below any last message for the audiences yeah uh the thing


any last message for the audiences yeah uh the thing is uh the most important message I want to give because I have talked mostly from the point of view of as an instru scientist and from the science is that uh our civilization has a very unique kind of uh kind of uh upbringing compared to the Western Civilization is that we have never considered science as a kind of a hostile or negative or a threatening thing uh Dharma and science were all always together of course like it both have the parent Ruta in rigveda so you have to utilize that upbringing that kind of a thought process that the rishis has created and I see like for example in the social media if you look at it's as if like science is something from coming from West and Dharma is something coming from East and there are certain people who think that we have to develop our own science to beat the Western sense that's all not required because science as it is even though it may be adopted by the west and it


though it may be adopted by the west and it grow in the western civilization is a part of Dharma itself beautiful so thank you looking forward to speaking to you again thank you yeah thanks that's right baby we just got a scientist to speak about all these things if you're listening to this episode till this point it means you want more of these episodes if you want more of these episodes I'm 110 sure you have some guest recommendations so when I ask for guest recommendations don't recommend Neil deGrasse Tyson because I'm sitting in Mumbai he's in America recommend Indian UFO fans Indian scientists Indian astrophysicists tell me what else you'd like me to speak about to these people tell me that you're going to download my meditation app level tell me that you're going to follow us on Spotify because we're a Spotify exclusive and every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world and if you dislike this episode Go Tell it to your own audience base


this episode Go Tell it to your own audience base don't drop it in the comment section TRS will be back soon with more talk on uh ghosts on aliens on science and on uh all the things you believed in until the world took your innocence away from you God bless you guys if you still believe in these things keep being that kid that you are because you were born to be creative lots of love I'll see you later [Music] thank you


so tantra's idea fundamental idea was that the things that make you fall in normal religion whether it's meat whether it's alcohol whether it's sex Etc which is the standard idea is that these will make you fall so let us divinize those processes so that they become the means to which you can attain to the Divine and that japa is that Mantra Japan is not no it's not a one minute thing it's not a two-minute thing sometimes texts will recommend that you have to chant a mantra which is so long that may take you 30 minutes 35 minutes how do you last for so long till the Mantra is complete there cannot be a release there cannot be an orgasm in order to do that there were techniques that were added so that you can hold back the orgasm both for the specifically for the meal while you are continuing the Mantra Japan so the primary aim is if you're not doing the Mantra Japan if you're just having sex and practicing those techniques it is useless it


and practicing those techniques it is useless it has got nothing to do with thunder sadhana whatever else you are doing that is hey guys so lately under any podcast that we've uploaded on the channel you guys have demanded for more episodes with rajashi nandi this particular episode was recorded the day after we recorded the original Blockbuster Trilogy if this is the first rajashin and the episode you're watching and I'm sure there's many of you out there like that please go see the trilogy first ideally if you've already watched the trilogy this one is sort of an extension it's more specific to tantric sex when people hear the word Tantra lots of people all over the world think of sex along with Tantra Tantra is basically a set of techniques a set of practices a set of disciplines that originated out of the subcontinent and they're primarily meant for your own spiritual advancement tantric sex is simply one of the techniques amongst a horde of other Tantra based


techniques amongst a horde of other Tantra based techniques I'm not going to talk too much about it I will let rajashi nandisa explain it further all I'll say is that our meditation app level super mind is now live if you want to begin your own spiritual journey if you want to take it further if you want to dive into your own subconscious mind we've uploaded some extremely deep meditations on level super mind it's linked down below make sure you check it out and make sure you follow TRS on Spotify or Spotify exclusive every episodes available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this is the Superstar of TRS who returns once again to give us another Blockbuster episode this is the tantric sex special with rajashi nandi [Music] nandi sir welcome back to this video Namaste there's a lot of people who are watching you on the show for the first time because of the thumbnail right uh the word Tantra for a lot of westerners is something synonymous


Tantra for a lot of westerners is something synonymous with spiritual sex that's how most of the international uh spiritual Seekers understand the word Tantra to begin with but tantras like the alphabet and sex might be one of the letters in it it's such a wide subject it's not at all synonymous with sex but in saying that um this entire episode will be centered around the spiritual aspect of sex um what would you like to say first and foremost uh I hope that through this podcast we can clear certain misconceptions about it also because with anything that becomes too widely and easily available outside of context there's always going to be a lot of things that may or may not be the part of the actual process so maybe we can do that also yes there's a lot of books which use tantric sex in the title but if you actually open the book it's activities that you do before and during sex which are said to enhance sexual pleasure it's supposed to increase the intensity of the


it's supposed to increase the intensity of the orgasm uh it's supposed to create a deeper connection between you and your partner it's supposed to allow you to get multiple orgasms there's even techniques to not ejaculate when you orgasm as a man right but the thing is those books never talk about the origins of Tantra as a whole now do you want to address the sexual topics first or do you want to address Tantra as a whole first let's go so Tantra as a whole just very briefly it's a very wide uh range of methods of worship of deity but the most important thing that you have to remember and this example that you gave this is so typical of this uh the first thing that we must remember is that Tantra is a method of upasana it's a method of worship so it is not about sex it is not about meat it's not about alcohol these are props that help you but they are not the end they are not the goal the goal has to be


they are not the goal the goal has to be in mind so the goal is to succeed in the upasana of the deity okay again some context for first-time listeners basically the goal is evolution of your own mind towards towards what some people believe is called God or the higher power or the deities or the deities yeah uh now in terms of what are deities so deities are in our system the way we look at it deities are as good as Gods we don't believe in one God we believe there are multiple gods that's all each God is a deity you know in Pokemon how they have Pokemon like they throw up that's a lower form it's like a pet that fights for you imagine that you have higher forms of these which are above you okay so I've seen that but I can't relate to that example because I don't know but yeah more or less very simple definition is that there are some cultures that believe that there's really one God we believe that there are


there's really one God we believe that there are many gods and each of them are omnipro omnipresent omniscient omnipotent that's all some could be Shiva some could be Krishna some could be uh the goddess of various forms of the Goddess Tantra more or less relates more to the worship of Shakti which is the goddess forms okay um Hinduism also believes in parabaram which is that one universal God yes uh which is the god that the whole world knows there is however one small difference the Brahman or the para Brahman that is called in vedanta it is absolutely neutral which means that it does not care much about you it does not Hindus never made a temple to the Brahman Hindus don't have a ritual to worship the brahmana it is like the Fate the concept of faith that was there in the ancient Greek religion which was all most like our sort of not same but kind of multiple deities forms were there so there is a


of multiple deities forms were there so there is a power that is higher but it is very neutral it does not care whether you worship it or not it is not even asking you to do anything there is no way you can worship it no Hindu no Rishi ever actually made a temple to the brahmana you can worship the deities and the deities will interact with you they embody the power of the Brahman the Brahman is a very neutral principle who worships the Brahman a sannyasi which means one who has left the life completely he worships the Brahman why how does he do it by meditating on it why does he do it so he gets that neutral perspective of life it is not going to give you anything else you cannot worship the Brahman and say you can worship in our context you may worship Lakshmi mahalakshmi and say that I need some money my financial condition is not good you can worship Lord Shiva and say that I need a cure


Lord Shiva and say that I need a cure for a disease a sannyasi is a Hermit someone believes the material world right but you're saying that within the material world first of all one of the goals of Hinduism for the material world is get done with your material desires so that you can move on to spiritual desires yes but while you're stuck in the material world these deities help you progress fast spiritually or materially both both aspects both aspects of that okay but the Brahman is not like that so you cannot pray to the brahmana and say that you give me a good you know uh some money I need some a cure for a disease I need or I I you cannot even pray for Moksha it doesn't care whether you exist or it doesn't care whether you worship that is a huge difference between the concept of God As We Know It that comes from the West versus the idea of God that we the Brahman that we believe in that comes in vedanta


that we believe in that comes in vedanta the other texts fascinating um okay now let's begin talking about the sexual activities that we spoke about and maybe one precursor is that a gist of some of the stuff you spoke about in our first episode is that Tantra is like a path yes uh the general path for every single human being is spiritual progress right going closer to Evolution correct because this is not our final form right right being a human now you can progress by meditating you can progress by praying Tantra is like you're taking a car and going on that same road where most other people are walking right uh and then there's different types of cars depending on the kind of Tantra you follow right including aguri which is a common in a term that a lot of the West understands you know the Babas who are supposed to be famous for eating human flesh that's one of the aspects in their life they follow set of rules which is like driving a Formula One car uh on the


is like driving a Formula One car uh on the same road right excerpts from a Hindi vodkas which is also fantastic coming back to this conversations yes uh now I will let you shed some light on the tantric sex aspect yeah because most people look at tantric sex as a tool to improve their sex life so this is uh this is like uh so where does as we were discussing in the last podcast so this whole concept of tantric sex or sex for that matter comes in at the level of vamachara Tantra where it's as I mentioned there's a level that's called the vamachara which is the left hand path in left hand path you start offering meat you offer alcohol you offer fish you offer mudra and you offer sex and this is at a very high level of high level after you've done a lot of the lower levels yes so more in fact um it is to say that you to pick out sex out of these five things we call this technical is the


of these five things we call this technical is the Pancha Makara five M's okay so uh to pick out just one aspect out of it and then uh to believe that this is going to improve your sex life Etc is also is equivalent to saying that okay I just take out that neat offering part of it and uh perhaps uh that that's a way to increase protein intake in my body so that would be that ridiculous so the aim that's what I said the aim of the process of the whole process of everything that is done in Tantra is worship of the deity it has to be very clear and firm in your mind so long as something is helping you in worship of the deity and it is within the permitted rules of tantri kupasana we call it the practice it is allowed for you okay but the aim has to be clear that it is for the worship of the deity it is not for pleasure it is not for any other kind of indulgence it is


not for any other kind of indulgence it is not going to make you Superman or anything of that sort so having said that sex is also one of the things that can be offered to the deities but there is a process to it it is not normal sex and it requires certain amount of preparation of Mantra upasana which means the chanting of mantras of the deity and chanting of Mantra is not just one twice so so Tantra looks at it this way uh you have an ishta date is God you are worshiping the form of the mother that you are worshiping and you may have to chant lacks of mantras of the deity not even one two lakh some texts will tell you 5 10 15 20 lakhs of the month is hundred thousand hundred thousand yeah of the Mantra that you have obtained from the legitimate Guru through a tantric initiation okay now suppose uh so Tantra was never originally a path of the sannyasis though various sannyasi sects later


of the sannyasis though various sannyasi sects later on adopted Tantra because it is very powerful its techniques are powerful it it adopted those parts which did not violate with their sannyasi code which means that they did not take these aspects of Tantra they took the right hand path which is called the dakshinachara that is also Tantra so tantra's idea fundamental idea was that the things that make you fall in normal religion whether it's meat whether it's alcohol whether it's sex Etc which is the standard ideas that these will make you fall so let us divinize those processes so that they become the means to which you can attain to the Divine okay and in this one of the most legendary tantric uh acharyas in fact he is almost is beyond an acharya is one of the greatest North yogis he was known as matsindranath he used to live in kamakhya okay and he uh he was born somewhere in Bengal and his he practiced his


somewhere in Bengal and his he practiced his uh and he composed a lot of text on on these aspects of Tantra yogini sadhana and bhairavi sadhana Etc so the fundamental basic idea at what primary level of where sex is used in Tantra is that the partners have to be first of all initiated into the process both both it cannot be one person both so by a guru by a guru definitely by the same Guru it can ideally is the same Guru okay ideally if it's the same Guru in fact the guru not only does initiate but he also ensures if if these are if it's a husband wife partner Etc so they will initiate that it is the same form of the deity that is given to them this is also where we should mention a word of caution because this is where a lot of people might misuse their position of spiritual power yes that's there that's another aspect yes do you want to shed some light on that but first let's complete


to shed some light on that but first let's complete this thing so Guru initiates both the partners are in any case both the partners must have the tantric initiation okay that is mandatory number two they must be doing their Mantra sadhana properly which is the Mantra japa of the devatha deity that is like doing a Seva to the Seva means a service to the deity and the deity by the way in in once you go higher into Tantra sadhana it is uh the average conception of the deity that we look at is the murti in temples wonderful that is there that's what the public but for you the Mantra is the deity for an individual who is into the tantric path the Mantra that is given to you okay whatever is the Mantra that Mantra is the date it is like the subtle body of the deity as we were talking about subtle body and physical body so the Mantra is the subtle body of the deity astral body astral body sort of


of the deity astral body astral body sort of that and when you are chanting that Mantra you are trying to connect to the subtle body of the deity now fundamentally what this process entails is that uh when uh both of these Partners it doesn't just happen you know it's it's not like something that you just go ahead and have sex no this is a Puja that has to be done specifically there are monthly that is to be done and then there are certain mudras certain manners in which they have to sit in certain postures Etc um and during the course of having sex they have to keep chanting the Mantra of the deity and that japa is that Mantra Japan is not no it's not a one minute thing it's not a two-minute thing sometimes texts will recommend that you have to chant a mantra which is so long that may take you 30 minutes 35 minutes how do you last for so long till the Mantra is complete there cannot be a release there cannot be


is complete there cannot be a release there cannot be an orgasm in order to do that there were techniques that were added so that you can hold back the orgasm both for the specifically for the meal while you are continuing the Mantra Japan so the primary aim is if you're not doing the Mantra job and if you're just having sex and practicing those techniques it is useless it has got nothing to do with thunder sadhana whatever else you are doing that is not Tantra sadhana again another tale of caution this is why tantric healers tantric sexual healers it's all of ours yeah more or less I mean I would not I'm talking about the Western tantric because actually you keep it in the Instagram bios and all yeah if you're going to one of them just be careful you I don't know why they add Tantra to it because more of them most often there is no Tantra involved in it it's just some some uh you know sexual techniques and all that you can


uh you know sexual techniques and all that you can package it in any name this is what gives spirituality a bad name yeah uh but it's fine whatever but uh if it is done correctly both the partners are of that say of that similar caliber so there are more rules in this some of them perhaps cannot even be spoken of without so they have this uh rules are there that these certain certain esoteric aspects of this uh sometimes it is referred to for example as panchama panchamma means Fifth Fifth means you know that it is talking about the fifth of the five offerings which is sex basically okay so panchamma sometimes when you're talking about the Pancham offering Etc there are many rules of how to judge the partner yes just by observation so when you are worshiping the goddess for example there are thus 10 mahavidas are there okay leaving us at one of the mahavidyas mahavidya is the goddess great wisdom the the tantric goddesses forms of the Goddess


the tantric goddesses forms of the Goddess that each represent a different form of wisdom yes okay and and the mahavidya worship is tantric okay so leaving us at one of the mahavidas for the other mahavid there's there is this dictum it's believed and it's not to be mindlessly applied that every woman has some of the other influence of these 10 goddesses Every Woman whether she is aware of it or not is irrelevant why not every man ah that is because women are considered as a representative of Shakti men are considered as representative of the purusha Shiva Shiva purusha purusha is Shiva Krishna can also be a purushottam I was just mentioning yesterday and that's it that's another topic okay skip that for now because it'll divert it into another and that's also beautiful um all of it is beautiful I mean there's no part that is not beautiful so women are considered as a representative of Shakti okay now uh this statement however cannot be Mis


okay now uh this statement however cannot be Mis used out of context which doesn't mean that every woman that you meet you have to fall at her feet no then you are getting it all wrong okay this is only relevant to somebody who is doing specific sadhana specific Worship in the tantric method and has reached a certain level okay otherwise in a normal context when you meet whether a man or a woman in the normal rational way that you interact with them you interact with them that's all neither good nor bad doesn't mean a thing now if you are that kind of a person who has had a tantric initiation and is a tantric and has done certain sadness practitioner so he's a practitioner correct the practitioner has the right initiations and most importantly has done the practice properly it's very important there are people I know who have lot of initiations no practice that also will not work it's useless that's like you're hanging 10 medals around you but inside there's nothing so


10 medals around you but inside there's nothing so then by looking at the woman you will know that which of the mahavidyas she represents which of the forms of shakti's in latent inside that latent Insider that's one thing latent means that most of them are not even aware and which is perfectly all right just like most men have but that doesn't mean that every man is Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna it doesn't work same way not every woman has anything to do with the deity there is the potential for one if the sadhana is correctly done that potential can awaken if that woman Becomes self-aware of what she holds with it then she becomes one of the bhairavis and yogiris in the higher levels and then everybody will fall at the feet of such a woman that is very rare and it's possible and it happens um there and it's very high level idea but uh in this uh upasana the other thing is that it breaks certain mental taboos that is there in


breaks certain mental taboos that is there in the normal course of upasana and the way they got standard we are told that you have to maintain a certain degree of celibacy which is uh which is right which is I'm not denying that in certain practices celibacy is very important otherwise it will not work it will not show you the result um it it causes a break in concentration more or less one of the typical effects of uh you know not having celibacy is that it causes a break in the concentration at the peak moment when you are supposed to have 110 focus on the Mantra in the deity that is where thoughts and images of uh sexual encounters will rise up and it happens from the chitta within it rises up and it rises up and it is going to break your concentration you will not get the result is the core of your soul it's like your mind it's a part of your mind it's it's like that place inside you where Impressions


it's like that place inside you where Impressions happen all the time subconscious mind conscious mind only but it's latent just below the conscious mind you're meeting somebody you're anything whatever activity you're doing it is it just collects an impression of it okay and randomly throws up just like that when you're not thinking about it suddenly especially specifically if you're not trying to meditate it's going to throw up all sorts of images it happens to everybody okay okay coming back to the topic of conflict sex so basically this practice is done during the time of this sadhana during the time the the woman is actually to be made to sit in a specific posture and monthers have to be chanted all over our body and uh I will not go into the specific details of how this is done and what mantras also everything is is as per it's not something randomly done these are things that are mentioned in text and passed down through traditions of those traditions where these forms are worshiped specific forms of the


where these forms are worshiped specific forms of the mother the mahavidas are there for whom this sadhana is extremely potent okay uh you have to know number one number two uh there is a knowledge of uh what kind of a partner is suitable for this the somebody who has uh through Mantra sadhana there is an intuitive ability that develops just by looking at the person you'll get to know what kind of result is going to happen and this thing by the way extrapolates it outside of the tantric context also the reason why there is a certain amount of control over sex is always advised in the spiritual path because when you have unrestricted sexual encounters with people you do not know what karmas they have done you are going to imbive their energy that is the easiest way to take in somebody else's energy is that Tantra believes that if you have sex with someone you don't know you're saying I accept this person's karmas as my own not just Tantra any way it


as my own not just Tantra any way it will happen is the easiest way on the other hand if this process is correctly done and the right people are there it is the this one this when you are doing it as a practicer spiritual practice not just for enjoyment Etc spiritual practice it has the power to instantly open up all the chakras in your body which could be dangerous no it will be it can lead you then and mind you everything is going perfect I am talking about the uh the result that it finally produces if everything is right it will lead you to a state known as mahabhava samadhi which means that you are in a state of absolute Bliss rapture extended orgasm no it's way beyond that you will have a vision of the deity it will be in a state of samadhi means basically your mind becomes absolutely concentrated on the deity and there'll be a manifestation of the radiant it is a state of unbelievable if it's correctly done and


state of unbelievable if it's correctly done and the progress that will happen between the two partners together it is it's like it doubles your power probably also get connected to your car partner more deeply that is there that's a side effect of it that is also there beforehand which means that this process is anyway not going to work if you have not had the same partner for many lifetimes just like that if you meet karmically somebody it's not going to work out it will just be a relationship and two days later you'll have some fight and reach will go its own way so I'm assuming that the guru who actually initiates both the partners into this uh will ensure that either they are husband and wife or so here is uh in this age today mostly it has ensured that it's a husband and wife but there was an uh there is another tradition older tradition that used to happen and those are there are certain as where so they've left Society Hermits kind of Hermits yeah


left Society Hermits kind of Hermits yeah maybe basically they've left Society so they're not part of a formal Society they only practice and they're connected to the Mandalay mandeli means group that specific group who practice in their uh marriage is not specifically there free out of free will they decide the both the partners decide and the guru decides whether they have the capacity for it okay here is the thing what is the what is the level of the male partner and what is the level of the female partner and the specific terms that are used for the male the term that is used is bhairava and the female that the term that is used is bhairavi okay so whether the bhairava and the bhairavi are matched for this kind of a practice and then they can stay together for something could be months could be years Etc then they may even go out in the sense that you know Pathways in the sadhana so this was an accepted idea in tantric circles earlier when there used


idea in tantric circles earlier when there used to be more of people who used to leave uh Society normal society and practice entirely in India I remember an anecdote I had read and that's a not an anecdote actually it's a very it's a true incident there's a beautiful text in Bengali it's called which means that is somebody who is curious about Tantra sadhana country processes that kind of an individual he goes out in search of sadhus who are of the tantric persuasion and he interacts with them and this gentleman spent 12 years roaming around India trying to find these kind of people here later he came back home and later he had gone to Sri aurobindo and then he wrote that book and that book is a cult classic only thing is that it is in Bengali those who have read it it's it's it will blow your mind it's the one of the greatest books I've read so there he had an interesting encounter he mentions he comes from a


had an interesting encounter he mentions he comes from a traditional Vedic family so he is suspicious of Tantra he mentions right at the beginning he thinks that there is some this is you know some kind of Jewel to use the very typical Mumbai language like some kind of fast he doesn't believe that this thing actually leads to anything he's very skeptical he's very honest that he's skeptical about it but he's still curious to see and it's perhaps his destiny that he gets to meet a lot of great tantricas of that era and he was an artist by the way so all he used to carry with him was a pen and paper and whenever he used to meet somebody interesting to make a sketch of that individual okay so he goes to a place called Walker in Bengal Walker is one of the oh ancient Shakti betas of an important uh divine feminine Temple yes I'm having to translate everything because we have so many American and European viewers but I got your back


many American and European viewers but I got your back go download my meditation app I'm kidding so so he goes to vakrishwar that is one of the very famous and Powerful uh temples of uh of the Goddess okay or the tantric temples and it was that in that era the temple was famous for virajar sadhana viracha is an extreme form of Tantra sadhana where these things come into play viraja Veer means you are like a hero vir okay by the since we're talking of classifies men into three categories first is pashu an animal who is an animal who has no spiritual conception just going around doing whatever else you are doing in life you are a pursue after you have the tantric initiation and you start doing your practices you become a Veera you are a hero because you are trying to fight against your Tendencies and develop yourself spiritually it and then last stage you become a div we are a Divine being okay this is the three categories of men


Divine being okay this is the three categories of men whole of Tantra sastra is meant only for the Vira but the pashu who is uninitiated at the initial stages there are no you do The Vedic sadhana you are not even you're not even entered the arena the Veera after you have the initiation then only all these rules all this Makara everything comes into play and finally the Divine the Divya he also has no rules why because he has already become Divine whatever he does is correct so Tantra says that you don't mess with him and the pursue you don't bother about him it's only the middle section that I am curious about and bother that Temple is famous for viratara and this gentleman goes there and this must be in early 1900s maybe 1910 or something I don't remember the year Etc so uh people tell him that in The Cremation ground and The Cremation ground still exists by the way and that cremation ground is so interesting uh not


and that cremation ground is so interesting uh not advisable for people to just hear and Rush there but if even in the afternoon if you go there you'll have that certain Airy feeling there in that area so it's wonderful place for certain kinds of personas certain kind of tantric sadhanas and thankfully it is not yet commercialized so it's good here he goes there and he there's a Temple of the mother goddess of MAA Durga is there and he stays in the temple and the those days if there's a Wandering monk that comes he used to wear that Hmong kind of dress so they gave him some food and a place to stay and all that and somebody tells him that there is an agori who sits in The Cremation ground so they just call him Baba they don't know what his name is they just know that he has come from Tamil Nadu he's come from the south and he is sitting there and he stays there in The


is sitting there and he stays there in The Cremation grounds and nobody disturbs him Nobody messes with him and this guy gets very curious okay he's curious he's scared he's also skeptical that all these things are some farce but at the same time there's curiosity also what is happening what is this Etc somebody tells him that aghori as we were discussing eats once in three days and what does he eat he consumes uh the brain matter of dead bodies with the rice once in three days the Dome Dome is the individual who used to you know helps in the burning of the bodies yeah which is a whole other topic by itself met some domes and that's a whole it's a society yes yes and they're supposed to also have tantric Powers the worshipers of uh so yeah so it's there yeah yeah so in that the Dome uh used to refer to him call him Baba and he used to get that that brain matter if you have ever


to get that that brain matter if you have ever seen a skull pop in the fire it makes a sound and what's the sound like it's like it's like a cracking of the skull in the fire and then something will that that brain matter the GUI mask comes out Etc to observed in a cremation ground anyway so he used to consume that once in three days he was a hardcore means he's gone beyond even the rules of Tantra sadhana also nobody used to mess with him nothing but people used to River him very much that he is not an ordinary person he is almost he's like become he's become wherever only wherever is the Lord of The Cremation ground Shiva in this form as bhairava is the king of the commission ground nobody comes close to him he's the one okay he controls everything there then one day after few days he sees that and he is curious to meet the gentleman but he's scared of the gentleman is he he's writing all this it's


gentleman is he he's writing all this it's the mix of emotions is going on okay he sees that the Lord of tantrics who have tantricas have come to that place suddenly one day and from different far-off places and this is we are talking about pre-independence India so people have come from Bangladesh there's a lady who has come from Bangla present day Bangladesh there's somebody who's come from some other place Etc and he is wondering that why they are gathering so he goes to one more friendly and approachable looking of the tantricas and says that why have you come and he says that because we will be doing in Chakra chakra understands you know the highest pujas in Tantra greatest of pujas okay chakra is like the ultimate of upasanas so and the Baba has called us how did he call telepathically there's no telephone in that era and he's sitting in a cremation ground he doesn't even have anything so he telepathically calls them and they come start coming


he telepathically calls them and they come start coming and those days they have to walk and things like that so few months ago and Etc they're Gathering Together and they have come all in partners partners groups Etc and then there is a lady who uh comes from Bangladesh okay so he is this guy he's curious that he's like asking but don't you think this is all you know whatever what good can it come out of all whatever you guys do Etc and the people are trying to convince him you know you don't know this you have not tried the path if you don't know something how can you say that it's good or bad okay which is the story of most Catholics in the world yes So eventually the night of amavastya comes amava says the new moon night completely dark completely dark okay and at night the chakra understand will happen so what is the chakra understand chakra understand is a is called Russia mysterious worship the term that is used is mysterious worship


worship the term that is used is mysterious worship it is not to be done in public it cannot be even ideally the details of it cannot be spoken of in a gathering where the people are not initiated into Tantra Puja so people will sit in a circle and there will be a Karma of sitting there's the bhairava and his bhairavi will sit wherever and his bhairavi will sit his partner Shakti okay and there will be complete Synergy between the two by the way when this practice is correctly done the two people will have such coordination one the partner of the bhairava may be here and the wherever maybe 5000 kilometers away know exactly what this person is thinking and it will be perfectly it's not even as it's not like by fluke once or twice some coincidence happens and we think that oh something is happening no to test it the bhairava will mentally give a command something weird Okay so which is not you cannot predict that thing something three to four


not you cannot predict that thing something three to four times this test has to be done by the way is that a very far off distance you will give a command she will register it in her head and do exactly that and that is how you know that the coordination has been built to that perfection it is not to be left to a fluke and I know that this may seem complete um Skeptics I don't care this is what it is you believe it you don't believe in your business I don't care so then all this come together on the night and in Chakra as I was saying chakra you sit together in a circle chakra means a circle together in a circle and there's a leader of the chakra he's known as chakrish for a lord of the chakra and there is a chakrishwary his partner okay they are like Shiva and Parvati only in The Cremation ground forms okay and um and bhairavi is his partner so uh they sit together and they do this


partner so uh they sit together and they do this panchamakara upasana one after the other and it creates a tremendous Crescent of power and the other thing that is there once you once you enter the chakra once anybody enters the chakra you will lose your distinction of caste or any other outside you may be rich you may be poor doesn't matter as long as you are in the chakra you are all one only difference is who has more Shakti than the other and there is a certain arrangement of sitting that is followed in certain chakras and other things but I won't go into all the details because not everything can be spoken of in public but anyway the chakra understand is happening what I am talking to you is already written down in a text hundreds of people have read it I'm just translating that story and once again because it brings out that element okay um so this guy this author he's very curious what is it doing so he goes


very curious what is it doing so he goes into the cremation ground and from a shrub in the uh you know forested certain areas he hides himself there and is observing okay what exactly is going on so you see that they are sitting together in a circle and then in the middle there is the Gori Baba who's sitting on his left is that a lady that female bhairavi would come from Bangladesh very senior who was there and the others were sitting in circles so this goes like this that the immediate left is the Shakti of that person of that person and then the Puja starts Puja means first they will be meet first okay so meet with mantras they will consume it they will pass consume pass and with every partaking of the meat you'll have to do Mantra Japan it's not just a you know let's sit together and have a feast no no no every partaking you have to sit and do mantras affaste then there's Karan the term alcohol is


affaste then there's Karan the term alcohol is not used neither is madira used the term that is used in tantris Karan because it takes you to the Karan Sharif purified Sanctified alcohol that takes you to the Karan sharir and with mantras and all these things it has to be purified is not something you just get from the market to understand the word current Sharif you'll have to go back to a second podcast your body consists of three parts your physical body your astral body and your causal body your astral body can be thought of as your ghost and your causal body is your purest form of your soul which is just pure light now go answer okay so um so he's seeing from a distance that what exactly are they doing and he's seeing with a bit of skepticism and curiosity as it happens the more skeptical we are the more curious also we are what exactly is happening and he sees that there is the meat that is being passed


that there is the meat that is being passed then there is a fish and then there's the alcohol and then there's the mudra parched grains so there are certain um green dry grain stuff that we use for mudra and then there is the final punch and he sees that uh the bhairavi the chakra was the leader of the pack the agori and the bhairavi she sits in front she opens her clothes she starts is doing Mantra Japan on her forehead on a neck on different parts of the body this whole process goes on for one hour almost so he's doing Mantra Mantra of the deity basically he's invoking the form of the mother God is inside okay of that Shakti of the power of the deity inside that is Shakti inside the lady who's sitting there in the and she's also a tantric Lady by the way not an ordinary woman Etc and he's observing all this and he is also not sure what exactly is happening since Etc and


sure what exactly is happening since Etc and then after some time um and it's it's kind of dark it's dark and he's the the what he's seeing is through the there are lamps those days obviously you didn't have that kind of yeah and that remote place so there was uh Diaz or oil lamps etcetera lit in front everybody so the light of that lamp in the Darkness at midnight on a cremation ground is observing this scene okay and then suddenly at the end of this whole Puja process that is going on he sees that the Gori who's the leader of the chakra he sits and on his left thigh the lady who is also uh she sits down and a specific mudra okay and he's doing japa with this hand with this there's a Mala in his hand like this is and at that moment there's a flash of lightning in The Cremation ground a thundering lightning in the pitch darkness and that lightning rips apart the darkness everything is visible


that lightning rips apart the darkness everything is visible at that time and he sees to his absolute shocking amazement that there is no there is the chakra is not that is Shiva is sitting full jata there and there are snakes around him in his head and there is a trishula and there is Parvati sitting next to him and he sees that in a fields in that flash of lightning all he sees he writes down is that I can see that this is the chakrishoda is gone it's not there anymore this Shiva is sitting and this Parvati is sitting there in that posture in that specific mudra we call it in specific posture and there are snakes in his daughter as Shiva has snakes Okay and there is a threshold near him and there are beings all around Etc Andy faints he wakes up next day in the afternoon and he the Dome who used to be there uh Dome he sees when he wakes up he sees that the Dome


when he wakes up he sees that the Dome is throwing water on his mouth and all that the person that burns the body so he's saying that um [Music] while he was hidden there and observing all this the aghuri knew everything so after some time the aghori called The Dome and said that that guy is there is fainted take him inside let him rest he doesn't have the capacity to take the power of this he doesn't even have an initiation for again initiation he was a very genuine individual very high caliber very very very high caliber so the kind of power that is generated for a person who does not have that practice if he is there it is going to cause a shocking effect on you as we were discussing in the previous podcast the moment you come into face to face with the reality that is non-conceptual so you build Concepts in your head whether it's skepticism I don't believe it whether oh this is a big Theory there's God somewhere but he's


is a big Theory there's God somewhere but he's not coming here I'm safe completely the moment you have an altered experience it breaks down your Concepts and you either run away scared from it or you bow down a difference there's no other rational way in which the mind can process an experience that is beyond your ordinary you know what you are accustomed to so he uh this chakrishwarya he knew that that guy was dead there's no way he can know because he's hidden there and he calls this Dome and says that he's fainted take him inside put some water let him sleep so next day he wakes up and his his leg stunned at what he has seen and um he comes to this uheshwar and says and this this aghori starts laughing okay and then there's a beautiful ancient ensuing conversation and says that everything in this material plane is divine it is not that there is a God outside the god that you worship ishwara ishwari the Shakti the supreme power that


ishwari the Shakti the supreme power that we are worshiping the Supreme mother God is that we are worshiping she's here in this plane everywhere hidden inside even the things that you consider as uh as impure things that you consider as filthy it is there even there inside that is the philosophy we have we have even from the upanishads there's a statement that sarvam khalidam Brahman everything is Brahman it is not saying that there is a God outside and not here no we don't believe only a transcendental God or a deity or an ishwara the devatha manifests here in this plane also it is hidden there it is through the process that you remove process of the upasana of the practice of you remove the veil and you have a direct experience of the deity so what in this case the whole point of this story was that when correctly done this sadhana by the right people who are actually practicing and who look at it not as some kind of an


who look at it not as some kind of an enjoyment and some Fringe activity I'm doing and some you know whatever else they think they're doing you look at it in the right sense this is the nupasana this is a worship of the mother you look at it with the sense of reverence with that sense of sacredness it has to be that sacredness has to be there and not just repeating sacredness ten times no no that feeling of reverence you when you go to a normal Temple of any normal Temple of a deity you have faith on be it hanumanji be it Lord Shiva with Krishna with anybody you have a sacredness and sense of reverence right you go with the you don't fool around there you go you fold your hand sacredness that sacredness has to be there in this process for it to work because you are not just doing random actions this is worship then this will manifest into a terrific spiritual state of absolute this is


into a terrific spiritual state of absolute this is mahabhav samadhi kind of state this is where you not only have a manifestation of the deity and I remember in the last podcasts I think we mentioned that one of the goals of the Tantra sadhana and the other parts is for the deity to be inside you samavesha is the term that is used not just a Liberation but you divinize yourself completely okay so that there's no difference between you and the deity as I will say so this is what it is he that gentleman that aghori who was there whose name is also not known this incident he had attained to that kind of a condition that when he was performing the ritual Shiva himself had entered into him there's no difference between him and Shiva now what mode is Liberation if Shiva if if a deity like Shiva comes into you Etc that is Moksha this is Moksha this is Liberation this is all there is what about the people in that Circle


all there is what about the people in that Circle they are a part of it to uh spiritually Advance like I'm assuming it's we spoke about how tantric sex is a very big boost in your spiritual advancement I'm assuming that a ritual like this makes it even faster yes and is everyone naked during the process yes uh not when the Pancham Makara the fifth Makara comes in in fact uh very often uh after the four makaras are the four Makara means after the meat fish etc etc then so each one can retire with their partner specific partners and perform it in privacy perform the fifth ritual which is again they know this process so they know what mantras to be chanted and how long Etc they can do it in their privacy okay um wow so many questions right now why do these tantric sex techniques then work for the everyday human who reads it out of books because there must be some power in them in those formats in that technique that adds itself to an


formats in that technique that adds itself to an orgasm I'm asking from a very City person point of view nothing to do with tantric practice uh so there are certain techniques that work to enhance the uh you know the sexual intimacy and pleasure and also but that is my so taking it out of the context is a uh it has another Fallout by the way so if you take it out of the context if you do these practices and just follow so the techniques that were developed for example for for ensuring that an orgasm doesn't come so easily until all the Puja and the anusthana ETC is completed during the process Etc if you take it out from the religious context where it is used in that sense you will end up becoming just the opposite thing that the religion abhorse which is you will become sort of a miniature version of a sex maniac you will not only flare up your chakras that control sex but you will go crazy about it and if that's what


will go crazy about it and if that's what you want that's fine fair enough be clear in your head please go ahead and do what you want there's probably some Neuroscience in this that your body will release excessive dopamine in that moment maybe I I don't know that I can't comment on that but my my point is that the specificity of this is useful this is useful as a technique only if you remember the context in which is to be used so even at the peak of this technique when used correctly there is an orgasm but it's it's not an orgasm it is an internalized orgasm but initial stages it will not show so for people who practice this actually in a very very broad manner I'm defining it without going into more specifics so initial stages it is not going to work that you will not be able to retain the orgasm but eventually as the practice deepens Etc you are able to internalize the orgasm with a and it is at that Peak moment when


with a and it is at that Peak moment when the Mantra attains maximum power without the Mantra all this is meaningless the Mantra attains power and the mantra Mantra becomes what is known as you reach a stage a specific technical thing that is used in text which is called the Mantra chaitanya which means the Mantra awakens it becomes an alive entity inside you Mantra is the deity that is the moment your connection is built in a second I'm I'm sorry if I'm crossing a line here but is it like when you orgasm in that ritual you have the vision of the deity uh more or less but more or less but it's not again just like any other ritual for that matter even a normal Puja Etc it is not going to happen in day one it is to practice okay with the right partner and all the other settings being set in place Etc but yes in that moment when the orgasm happens Etc uh in fact one of the things that people were more keen on


one of the things that people were more keen on uh in those who are in this those who practice this kind of persona specifically for men so that they can somehow uh retain the orgasm or if possible even sort of you know go beyond the organs not have the orgasm why that is because orgasm calls but at the moment there's an orgasm there's this basic fall in the level of energy okay so one of the typical things that after an orgasm that can happen in general is that you feel sleepy you feel a little tired so then you want they did not want that fall of energy at any state even during this process so all these things that I'm talking about by the way makes only sense if you are doing the upasana if you take it out of the context then it's just whatever else you want to do I message your business how long is that vision of the deity is it like an orgasm for like three four seconds the vision of a deity if it if it's


the vision of a deity if it if it's properly manifests uh your conception of time will go away you that is what is called a samadhi samadhi means you enter into a Zone where your normal sense of time your concentrated um a single pointed concentration on the uh on the deity or the Mantra is so deep that you lose track of time you lose track of everything I hear you um okay let's make this conversation much more basic because I think you've explained a very high level tantric practice we as a brand often get criticized for highlighting the power of semen okay um there is a movement called the nofap movement which is basically it's a worldwide thing where a lot of men have decided to retain semen why the Western perspective is that Muhammad Ali Tesla all these people used to retain semen and they felt benefits of it my opinion on it is that when you combine semen retention with yoga it's um more beneficial like that's where the actual benefits of


more beneficial like that's where the actual benefits of retainings even come through uh please correct me if I'm wrong or if your opinion differs I feel like retailings even the practice can become very frustrating especially for a younger guy when you're a teenager full of hormones your system isn't set yet so maybe it's not even a practice for everyone and in saying that every single person whoever follows yoga whoever follows any sort of spiritual path always highlights the power of civil and celibus even even when you're talking about uh celibacy for women um you know staying away from sex is highlighted as a positive thing to help you on your yogic journey where do you want to begin this conversation from the last statement that's because uh that's correct so this is highlighted as a spiritual benefit in my opinion it is uh and I'm mind you or my perspective of all that I'm saying is only from the spiritual perspective of him not so uh outside of that context


perspective of him not so uh outside of that context why somebody wants to wants to retain semen or why not I have no interest and I don't even know so I can't even comment on that movement what is the goal and name Etc up but there is a benefit to maintaining celibacy but it should not be taken to the level that okay that is the final goal that if I maintain celibacy everything is going to fall in place no you are going to get complete nuts you'll be crazy there is a selective uh release and a selective celibacy that has to be combined together so that it works out that is why our Dharma the Hindu Dharma says that there are four goals with the average person's life Dharma is one of them which is your sense of religion righteousness Etc uh Dharma Arthur which is your money that you are not the prosperity comma which is your lust and which is your desires and Etc and finally there is Moksha so if Kama was


and finally there is Moksha so if Kama was something that you should be completely rejecting out of it so uh if you without karma there is no life in the first place okay so it is there it is the only thing that they are talking about basically fundamentally is that uh like water to give a simple example like water and like if you if that proverbial Newton's Apple follows flows downwards because the gravity is going to pull you down and things like that water flows from higher and to lower etcetera so if you indulge unrestricted in sexual activities it is more or less going to pull your powers energy is down and you will feel as a lack of as I said very simply speaking kind of tiredness any kind of spiritual practice at the initial stages has to make you a little bit more alert energetic less sleepy in fact one of the things that if you do a practice it is when you are sleeping that is when you are most unguarded by the way okay initial


you are most unguarded by the way okay initial stages so higher level yogis actually they try to transcend even sleep very high level it's I'm not again these cannot be forced so my viewpoint in celibacy is that do not even force it but maintain a certain decorum and discipline in it don't run around everybody and everything that you feel like you know having a relationship with not like that have a basic Common Sense idea of how much you can indulge and how much you do not and this idea is by the way this uh the way I'm describing it is not something very unique or something I have thought about our texts will tell you that for a married man uh to have a physical relationship with his wife is also celibacy hmm nobody not any point are we asking people that you leave everything and become a sannyasi is this is there a specific text oh this is the general idea of celibacy that if you are a married man in The Vedic Vedic system why do you


man in The Vedic Vedic system why do you think the Vedic Karma Kanda rituals mandate that 90 of the rituals is barred for an individual who is not married you cannot sit in a Vedic fire ritual proper Vedic fire ritual if you don't have legally married wife with you you have to buy it from it doesn't matter how good your meditation is how much yoga you can do and Etc and how much brahmacharya you follow you don't have a wife you're not married you cannot sit there do some spiritual processes start only after marriage uh if you were to practice yes but more or less marriage is a very balancing thing in my opinion uh and it's helpful in if if your partner is also you know of the spiritual mint of mind I mean obviously uh but coming back no she's not then you're bad luck there's nothing much I can say about that uh so coming back to the point but there is it is not to say that I am not again not