your children i find it logical wow i feel like i'm almost hypnotized talking to you you know like a little bit maybe maybe that's the bhagavan effect that do you feel like he's in this room bhagwan is in this room if i'm here he's there okay i tell you why tell me he was my trainer for speaking what was osho's take on alcohol marijuana psychedelics there's a big psychedelic revolution happening in the world of neurology people are using it for therapeutic purposes you know it's used for improving people's mental health did osho have any angle on these things bhagwan spoke about it till 1985 as a event that one should not engage in okay and what was his reason for that reason for it that meditation is a path of awareness you are on path to learn about yourself and any intoxication puts you to sleep it makes you unaware i don't mean physical sleep but it makes you unaware addiction is against the freedom individual freedom of the


addiction is against the freedom individual freedom of the soul of the soul and body also and you are near him to learn about freedom then he came across some people who brought this element that's when i chose to leave bhagwan what what do you mean this element intoxication and drugs alcohol and marijuana and many other things okay and they had gotten pakwan addicted to it and you will see it after my departure some of the discourses if you watch on the video his tongue is slurring his eyes are heavy he wears dark glasses these are typical events of drug consumption are you comfortable sharing what drug it was like was it weed oh no i have nothing to do and bhagwan had told me himself sila you must protect me even against me when i tell you something to do you must protect me i made him aware of what was going on he was not ready to listen to me i six months it took me to fight with myself and then i said i cannot


to fight with myself and then i said i cannot take care of bhagwan the work he has given me i cannot fulfill then it's time for me to go and he must have someone else who can do better and that's when i left so addiction intoxication is not what i have learned from bhagwan but people use bhagwan for different reasons people use paguan for justifying and bhagwan can give you every excuse to justify but the way i knew bhagwan that was not a theme hmm i hear you um what i've understood is that there is some level of discipline in whatever path you were following there were certain disciplines and there was definitely stuff that you weren't supposed to do i'd like to know about the stuff that you were supposed to do in terms of what would strengthen that discipline when it came to self-awareness i forgot the word you used right now you knowing yourself that's the word consciousness awareness book one used to what were the activities because my


book one used to what were the activities because my assumption is that it would be meditation but i i mean even if it was some sort of a breathing exercise or some visualization i'd like to dig deep a little bit here our full day in punashram when i was there and lakshmi was there and we ran the ashram then full of activities in the morning our dynamic meditation before that laughing meditation or the some did laughing meditations from some did dynamic meditation then we went to listen to paguan's discourse for one and a half to two hours and then workers went to work whatever work assigned to them and the visitors they said they spent their time talking and enjoying the beautiful atmosphere that was available in the punas room or they went to their apartment or what whatever sightseeing whatever they wanted to do they came back they had uh evening meditation then bhagavan's darshan and after pakwan's darshan ashumus closed so we we had a good structure in between people who came


we had a good structure in between people who came for therapy they were assigned the therapy groups and tape into their therapies i was so nervous to speak to you today couldn't stop thinking about this conversation today what was what was in your mind about this nothing at all nothing i go totally blank and i come out after the talking my colleagues who are with me they're exhausted listening to me but i'm still okay i've learned in life that you shouldn't take advice from everybody and you take advice from some people and i want your advice what do you what do you have to say to me after spending time with me it is very essential to look at the everest and try to reach out to everest then look down to valley and fall into the valley when i i am confused or i'm not clear in my thought then i bounce it off with someone who i trust who i love who can give me uncorrupted answers or opinion and then i decide which way i want


opinion and then i decide which way i want to move okay okay little cryptic but i got it uh too many words no no but i'm i'm following through um and you know in private i have responded to it now do you understand why i didn't want to speak to you before the show because there was like so many things to say to you so many things to ask what's your opinion on polyamory it's like becoming a big cultural thing all over the world and i'd like to know what bhagwan also thought of the same i have never thought about such words never i have lived what i have learned and i think it will definitely be a lot more smoother than monogamy less psychological problems smoother than monogamy yes why smoother because monogamy breeds jealousy in in all its cases i'm not generalizing i'm saying much portion of it okay okay i'm sure there are exception to the rules but general problems of relationships are caused by comparison and jealousy which


of relationships are caused by comparison and jealousy which is the cancer disappointments from expectations and depression and world suffers a great deal with depression because there are their innermost emotions feelings are not satisfied but maybe maybe if you know the couple has both people who have achieved a fair level of self-awareness then maybe it could be a successful monogamous relationship i fully agree with you but when it comes to possessing a woman or a man they don't change okay you think human means go back to the most primal form of themselves we often what happens is security is the reason why two people come together okay especially in our culture so at the ashram there was no monogamy no i mean i'm sure some people uh did observe but that was their choice and it just accepted so if polyamory was sort of the standard there do you think that led to higher levels of happiness amongst those people when they were also involved in their own disciplines of meditation and all that and


their own disciplines of meditation and all that and i'm asking you this because i mean for me when i look back this happened before i was born it's kind of like a human experiment that happened before i came into this earth i wonder what the outcomes of the human experiment work we were not engaged in dissecting the situation okay pakwan presented us fairly analyzed situation and it made sense it had a logic plus he brought out the freedom that was being curtailed all over the world in 60s he brought out the hankering for freedom that we had and that freedom was sensational and maybe that's why people started calling him he's dangerous he's a sex guru this that another and i remember recently somebody sent me on my instagram mark griffin interview few cuts of it where he asked me about sex and i said if you mean we charge for sex no we don't [Music] you know it is so dumb question and people must rise about make jokes of it


question and people must rise about make jokes of it how stupid it is they want to look intelligent but they look like morons i think that's kind of what the kama sutra says as well right that it's just a part of life but you need to have a deeper understanding of it and that's probably what the whole ashram stood for that was pakwan's purpose of bringing us to know your own sexuality ma'am this is really famous photo of osho placing a thumb on your forehead uh i understand that from certain indian perspectives i've read about those things the west might understand that as pineal gland activation activating the third eye so i gotta ask you what was it like having your third eye activated by osho [Music] no it has nothing to do with third eye or fourth eye for me it is just being in communication with him what what was happening can you describe it no i cannot describe it because i did not i wanted to have him completely if i let my mind


wanted to have him completely if i let my mind observe observe or bring in then i would miss the opportunity of being with him and you just opened yourself up just i was being with him for me that was enough how do you explain it to someone who doesn't understand a phenomenon like that misfortune [Laughter] okay fine fair ma sheila so many more questions for you but something tells me i should stop right about here when it comes to this podcast then do that how was the experience for you i feel wonderful you are a lovely young man and intelligent young men if i may say so that you're putting so much thought into your work thank you and i think try always to give hundred percent quality as you have offered me okay well that's a big compliment to myself the team i love the most about you your sense of humor and uh you know the senators like them for like troubling you that is exactly my attitude screw them all do they still trouble you


attitude screw them all do they still trouble you the senators will trouble me they can come and try they haven't bothered up till now they won't bother me in future and if they decide to bother me they should be worried about themselves i'm just loving being an indian right now thank you this is your new book it is out now what can people expect they can expect that what they have heard and read about me may not be the same what they read in my book but let them find out i want to give the mystery away man and sheila thank you for being on the runway show again bow down to you bow down to your divine feminine and bow down to this ocean of knowledge that you claim is with you at all points rajneesh it is all from bhagwan outros are all about me sharing my genuine perspective about the conversation what i will share is that this is a powerful lady in more ways than what you understand when i say the word


ways than what you understand when i say the word powerful sometimes you get to know how powerful someone is when you're in their presence when they're sharing the same space as you are the same physical space but you really get to know someone's power when you interact with them when you have deep conversation with them i'm sure you got a glimpse of this lady's powerful mind in this particular episode what you'll never know is the glimpse of the energy that i felt during the conversation there's so much more to unpack with mahan and sheila and speaking to her was genuinely one of the honors of my life this has been a dream episode for me so i'm glad that it got kicked off our list for more fantastic episodes like this make sure you follow us on spotify every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this is ranveeran team leaving you with another fantastic conversation as is the case of trs in general we'll be back soon


the case of trs in general we'll be back soon [Music] you


i think people we're all emotional creatures we're not 100 rational so you got to believe in something and if you're just selling product to make some money i think people will see through that and it's kind of boring i think that's one of the reasons why a lot of people got attracted to to oneplus like this brand was trying to do something differently i had a pc i bought the ipod i couldn't connect it because the port wasn't on the pc so i had to buy another like pci card dismantle my pc install that to connect the ipod and that thing took a lot of shipment time as well and then one week after the one-year warranty had uh gotten done yeah got it done it broke down and apple didn't help me so i was like i'm gonna destroy these guys one day um this one is a special episode you're gonna love it if you're entrepreneurial you're gonna love it especially if you're a tech enthusiast this company nothing this is the


a tech enthusiast this company nothing this is the phone one and its founder carl pay is the guest on our show today kalpe is known as the man behind oneplus company that everyone's heard of a company that just disrupted the entire mobile phone industry nothing is his newest venture what nothing is how it came about who calpe is what's in this brilliant human being's mind that's what today's episode's about you're going to enjoy it for more episodes like this make sure you follow us on spotify or spotify exclusive which means that every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world calpe fans in the house this one is for you [Music] oh my lord what energy welcome to the runway show bro thank you thank you for having me congratulations on everything that's happening with nothing and moreover congratulations on life uh thank you it's been a very challenging time why are you saying that nothing it's a brand new startup company we're less than two


a brand new startup company we're less than two years old and you know we started doing covid it's been many ups and downs throughout the journey getting the team getting the investment getting the supply chain making the product uh there's been a lot of challenges but also happy times along the way let's break away from the startup talk for a minute and talk about you a little bit do you realize how much single-handed fandom there is about your personal brand like all over the world in this room everywhere we go even for us to be associated with nothing has created its own fandom about the fact that we're collaborating with carl pay and you're just 32 33 yeah 33 soon that's crazy man yeah i uh i don't think it's a it's not the best thing because the best thing is so whenever i see somebody use our product and they look at me and they don't recognize me that's a much better feeling because that means the brand is growing okay what do you think about before going to


growing okay what do you think about before going to bed do you think just think about new products do you think about nothing what do you think about when you're going to sleep it's kind of hard to sleep so i my new routine is i listen to audiobooks currently i'm listening to the uh after steve book about uh how apple changed after steve jobs that was going to be one of our questions for this podcast that's one of the names associated with you a lot there's lots of brown brothers who actually refer to you as a sort of new age steve jobs but i think there's brothers from all over the world who do that are you aware of this comparison uh not really i mean i've seen maybe like two tweets but i don't i'm not sure it's a thing no it's a thing it's a thing when we were figuring out how to construct this particular episode this whole steve jobs angle was thrown in by everyone in the team yeah i was kind of a steve jobs fanboy when


i was kind of a steve jobs fanboy when i was younger i didn't know who he was until i didn't even watch the first iphone keynote i didn't even i didn't know who he was i knew apple the brand i think the first time i saw a keynote was the i the first ipad probably but then when i started knowing about this person i was really fascinated and the biography that came out and all that the ashton kocho one uh the the book oh okay came out have you seen the movies i think the best movie is um pirates of silicon valley like a really old movie i think the new ones it's about microsoft versus uh apple right yeah i think the new ones are kind of but where is all this motivation coming from like what was up in your childhood like why do you why are you trying to build all this some deep trauma huh that's that's all of us man what was up you know i i was born in china but left when i


i i was born in china but left when i was four do you remember any of it not like just maybe one or two like splinters of a memory um we moved to the states first and then to sweden so i think and i haven't seen a psychologist or a therapist and maybe i should not because i feel sick but i think it's a healthy thing to do um my theory is growing up as an asian kid in a western society and also having parents you know kind of just move out of asia and not really understand the customs and not feeling like a part of society and also not getting the same amount of um weekly allowance as my my friend local friends i think that played a big part in my childhood so i've been really um not that much anymore but when i was younger i was really obsessed with making money i remember one time i went to a friend's halloween party and i was only a kid who didn't have a costume because my parents didn't know


didn't have a costume because my parents didn't know that you had to wear a halloween costume for halloween party and my friend's mom was like uh i think she felt sorry for me so she used her lipstick to kind of paint some fake blood i think those things i don't know i don't remember if those things impacted me but i think maybe it's kind of these things under the hood that's uh driving a lot of this did you realize what was happening at that point when she was putting lipstick on your face many many years later like wait why didn't i have a costume at that party hmm and i'm sure there's like a bunch of incidents like this yeah added up it must be must be i mean somewhere through your teenage that's where you got bitten by like a spider and became this i mean i just tried to make money i think um [Music] when i was 12 i was selling rolex's fake rolexes in school and i have a lot of like


in school and i have a lot of like kids like all around me they've never seen a rolex before like wow what's this um and then just try to try evolving trying new things another straight up question for you how did you have the guts to kind of co-found oneplus when you were that young like i want to know about uh you know what went on inside your head you didn't you didn't doubt yourself at all you just went for it yeah i've been thinking like looking back at myself i think i i have ideas and i i just tried them you know naruto right yeah dragon ball stuff when when youtube just came out there was uh like the content moderation was pretty weak and there were a lot of people uploading the latest naruto episodes and putting english subtitles on them so um i was like hey why isn't there a way of just like embedding these videos on a website and offering people to watch them whenever they want to with subtitles so i just tried that and


to with subtitles so i just tried that and we had a newsletter every week you get an email a new episode to watch we didn't upload it ourselves somebody else uploaded we just embedded the video um and it got really popular but many many examples it's like a one-month project built the website grew the traffic the ad revenue sold it and then i look at other kids today and i realized that it's kind of abnormal i didn't know that it was abnormal back then i remember in physics class we had to uh write an essay about a about some chemical and instead of doing that i made a one time i made a music video i think explaining that chemical and another time i made a website interactive website where like it was animated and stuff and thinking back that's also really really strange um but i didn't know that back then and i was really surprised that the teacher didn't give me like any credit she was like oh that's cool and she created it just like an essay so i think just


created it just like an essay so i think just i don't know just have an idea and go for it and executing on it without thinking much so there was like this sort of quest for money there was inspiration from naruto you have an idea you execute and then oneplus was just one of the execution processes in your journey so my so what led me there was um growing up in sweden on the news you could always hear about the chinese economy growing and i had no exposure to any of that so i was like okay i gotta i gotta i gotta go there and see and after high school i i took a gap here i don't know if it's normal to do gap years here not at all okay my parents were kind of confused as well like what are you gonna do can you show me your like 12 month plan where are you going to be every month i'm like no i don't know [Music] so i went there and started exporting my own my own stuff i went


and started exporting my own my own stuff i went to the electronics market bought and sold online and [Music] and this plus the fact that i've been a also a tech fan from from early days like the walkman the ipod and all of that um i saw that the [Music] the smartphone industry was also just starting in china it's not not a purely like opportunistic thing because i really like uh tech products it was also passion driven yeah and i was really unhappy in my uni and now thinking back it was really arrogant but so i did all my courses i didn't write my thesis and the excuse i gave myself was i didn't learn anything so in case i get famous in the future the school shouldn't get any credit and the reason why i felt i didn't learn anything was okay i went to supposedly the best business school in the country um e-commerce was growing a lot of people were shopping online we learned nothing about e-commerce if you look at all the top brands


about e-commerce if you look at all the top brands that became top brands in the last 10 years amazon microsoft etc they're all tech companies so i'm like and we learn nothing about tech or tech companies or startups so i'm like okay this is the best business school but we learn nothing about where the future of business is going so that was my excuse to to not write my thesis instead i was at home playing league of legends [Music] and then i just had this idea that i either i i go to silicon valley where i go to china silicon valley because back then facebook had just started a couple of years ago it was growing really quickly a lot of consumer internet companies were starting and there was this incubator called y combinator one of my friends he he's not young anymore but he used to be the youngest uh entrepreneur who got in i was really inspired to to go there and then it just happened that i got a job offer in china so again i took


got a job offer in china so again i took the lazy lazy route job offer versus having to write an application okay let's just take the opportunity that's the easiest so i i moved there um it was a company called meizu gave me the offer wanted me to help them become a more a global company international marketing and all that and i knew them because i i bought the first ipod and it was really annoying to buy it because sweden is not a big market so you don't get the products first it takes a long time to order and it had the firewire port i don't know if you know what that is like it's a really long time ago yeah um like when you crack uh phones you needed no no it's um it's not usb it's almost it looks like usb but it's apple's um proprietary port no i i was too young for this mr pay none of it so i had a pc i bought the ipod i couldn't connect it because the port wasn't on


i couldn't connect it because the port wasn't on the pc so i had to buy another like pci card dismantle my pc install that to connect the ipod and that thing took a lot of shipment time as well so i waited for so long to use ipod and then one week after the one year warranty had gone yeah got it done it broke down and apple didn't help me so i was like i'm going to destroy these guys one day so i was really angry at that time um but i still i'm a big apple fan today yeah um but how does it feel when you're actually doing that you're actually creating a worldwide competitor and that's what the narrative is also about nothing uh we i mean we're like a insect today compared to where they are have you seen game of thrones you know where those dragons are really little okay some of these the listeners just got tried yeah you're building a dragon that's that's what i'm trying to say yeah but they're they've already


i'm trying to say yeah but they're they've already become a dragon right we're still an insect so it's the beginning step by step okay um so yeah i got the opportunity to to join meizu because i built the fan community for them after my ipod broke that's the next mp3 player that i bought and i was like oh this is pretty good so through building that plan community it got quite big i think we had like 70 000 users in today's internet that's not very big but like i don't know many many years ago that was a lot of users because 2011 no way way before that 2007 six seven yeah the internet was smaller the total amount of users and that community got featured on la times so i've been reflecting upon these things and it's like all my opportunities none of them were job postings on career websites they were all like one thing leads to another or i just do something and something happens i guess that's the message that i wanted to to convey similar


the message that i wanted to to convey similar to oneplus i reached out to oppo vice president on chinese social media just dm and we met up and [Music] he hired me into oppo and then i helped start oneplus when he when he started oneplus when you look back at everything that you guys did with oneplus i remember being in india and there was so much hype about the brand and there was so much hype about the phone launches um i'm sure you know exactly what i'm talking about did you realize that this is what would end up happening i'm assuming that that 70 000 person community that you built out was a very big lesson for you and you kind of put community first when it came to this brand as well am i right in singular uh maybe in the back of my mind but when we started oneplus it wasn't that strategic like the internet is so popular with facebook back then you know you can talk to everybody all around the world so why not


talk to everybody all around the world so why not make it a very kind of online and digital thing and make it very community driven because you can connect people online so it wasn't like oh because this thing happened then we had a very well thought out community plan that wasn't the case at all when you look back at the journey what do you think uh were the right moves in fact i'm sure there was like a lot but if you had to like highlight three right moves from that whole journey what would it be we watched fight club a lot of our early campaigns were also quite uh you had to smash your phone to to be able to buy the first oneplus phone etc um we're trying to capture some of those some gems or some nuggets from from the fight club ethos i think people we're all emotional creatures we're not 100 rational so you got to believe in something and if you're just selling product to make some money i think people will see through that and it's


money i think people will see through that and it's kind of boring um there's too many brands like that i think that's one of the reasons why a lot of people got attracted to to oneplus like this brand was trying to do something differently um i think we also got really lucky that we work with this um team in seattle called cyanogen because back then back then android manufacturers wouldn't really support their devices they would launch products and stop updating so there were a lot of third-party people on forums um making custom software that you could flash and then you could get updates on your phone and this was one of those teams they had just incorporated to a company and we collaborated and they already had a huge fan base of techies tech enthusiasts and by working with them we just brought all their community over to ours from the very beginning that was really helpful as well and i think at the end you know you say that people were kind of hyped about the product that's because reviews


kind of hyped about the product that's because reviews were good like there were a lot of media reviews and they said great things about the product and the reason for that is because the product was good so there's no shortcut you're a product you're a product company you got to ship good product at the end of the day without a good product i mean if all the media reviews were terrible then there wouldn't be any hype right hmm wow there's a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this taking down notes i'm sure you're aware of that happy to help i gotta ask you an asian kid question are your parents proud of you today like do you have that conversation because i know that stay i think they are now yeah but but not getting that college degree was a situational situation for a long time for a long time yeah for many years for how long a good uh five six years probably so till the age of like 27 28 yeah and how did you turn that around i mean 27 28 you'd


did you turn that around i mean 27 28 you'd probably already established one plus as a worldwide brand but still they're like you know don't have a degree what if you want to find another job in the future i don't know is is there this whole angle about finding a wife in chinese culture because it's their indian culture a lot but if you're not if you don't have a big degree i think they were just worried for my career um okay and i by by now my parents have lived in europe for so long i'm they're more european than me they're very westernized um the turning point i don't know if i should say this but uh the turning point you should say it god you should say it was when i surprised them with the apartment i think after that the that conversation ended why were you shy about saying this uh don't know i mean don't want to give people watching to high pressure about their own journeys yeah you think they'd compare themselves to you


yeah you think they'd compare themselves to you maybe some would because you compared yourself to someone else uh i had a period when i was mapping steve jobs age and at this age he did this at this stage he did that and and it was it was there was some real pressure um are you are you still doing that uh not anymore or not as frequently anymore what's what's made of reduce uh there's just so many great people all over the world it's not just one person and everybody has their own journey so i'm quite happy with my journey uh no matter how things go but so over time as i've gotten older and like a bit more experienced that comparison has kind of just faded away yeah i'm just gonna say it as i observe it have you ever watched elon musk on any podcast yeah the one where he's yeah with with jodo yeah you have very similar energy not that i'm gonna pull out a joint and give you no i'm kidding but really yeah


and give you no i'm kidding but really yeah he's more uh he should be more high energy i think you have very similar energy really yeah it's like this very calm composed definitely warrior energy that's what i sense from you that there's a lot of dislike channelized naruto aggression somewhere like deep into naruto it's one of my favorite uh favorite pieces of culture why it started off very innocently right all our all my friends were watching it in high school and we would um in school we will talk about naruto and league of legends and every every week when a new episode came out we would talk about it at school and every every day we go home and play league of legends or dota either one of those two but looking back i think i mean it's such a great story underdog story right this this uh class clown nobody believes he'll amount to anything doesn't get the girl he likes this girl he likes like somebody else his rival who's just born with a lot of


his rival who's just born with a lot of talent effortlessly cruises through life uh i think a lot of people can relate me included have you got the girl you like uh not yet that's it i don't know who i like yet okay is is there anyone in your life no no but you're happy you're a happy guy i'm uh very busy oh i'm very busy with work okay that keeps you happy uh for now yeah where do you want to be 10 years from now 10 years from now i want to i think i've been like very focused on work which is great um but i think true success is being great at not just your career and your work but also your relationships not just uh male female relationships but in general friendships friendships family and also your health your physical health are you fit or not your mental health so i think that balance hope to be in a state of better balance in 10 years okay the next obvious question which i've been thinking about ever since i heard about


which i've been thinking about ever since i heard about nothing which is that uh is carl pay a black mirror fan i used to be i watched all the episodes um a couple of years ago the last one i watched was the interactive one where you could gaming no it was like you could decide what the next scene would be oh bang the snatch banner snatch yeah that's the last one i watched but it feels a bit too dark for me um i'm not that into that feeling anymore okay but uh you know the technologies that they've shown in black mirror now you're someone who is extremely passionate about technology which of those technologies do you see coming or let me restructure that question and ask you which of those technologies would you like to develop yourself possibly at nothing it's all very dystopian right so i hope none of those things actually happen i think i like the thought of technology really empowering humans um i don't know if it's elon musk or somebody who said


know if it's elon musk or somebody who said you know the ai is coming to destroy humanity and the only way to save ourselves is to augment humanity with machines it's like where we become cyborgs so we can fight the the real machines i think things that can make people smarter make people more capable i think that's uh eventually somewhere i want to play biotech biotech probably are you into it right now are you following what's happening not at all i think it's um even if i was interested i have no time and no resource to do anything there because you're all in on nothing okay uh but long term possibly you see yourself in that stage of human evolution but then again i almost if i didn't start nothing the second idea was to start a mezcal brand or what mezcal it's a type of mexican liquor i moved to mexico so okay i don't know like the shawshank redemption you know the end of the movie they moved to have you seen the


of the movie they moved to have you seen the movie no i haven't okay you should see it you'll enjoy it a lot it's about um i don't want to tell you what it's about it's a legendary movie all right uh but then you started like a global tech brand instead of starting a liquor brand it will probably have been the same amount of stress and the same amount of work okay was this a money play like you chose tech because the money would be easier was it like a passion play i'm not sure which path would have led to more money if i'm honest like really this tequila brand patron sold for i think a billion usd um it's definitely more of a i don't know let me think about why do we start this we're just kind of bored you know bored board about where the industry has gotten um [Music] having that first ipod although i got really angry i also was the first person i knew to get the iphone and back then it was really


to get the iphone and back then it was really hard to get the iphone it was only available in the us it was locked to a t my friend bought it for me paid 450 to cancel the the contract shipped it to me i had to jailbreak it to put in a different sim card and then i lost it in a cap two weeks later um each generation of smartphone back then just felt so exciting such a big jump such a big jump and then the ipad came out there were tablets and then like so many different things happening at the same time consumer internet was also booming we went from web one to web two with web 2 we could create content everybody could be a part of creating content not just consuming content so there was a lot of optimism a lot of excitement for me as as a kid as well personally but then the last couple of years have been quite boring products are more and more similar it's nothing new nothing exciting do you think if steve's jobs had


nothing exciting do you think if steve's jobs had been alive we would be looking at a different human reality today most likely yeah you need those world leaders like thought leaders in technology and i think um what's really a big shame is that it takes many years for a person to get all this life experience to be able to contribute back to society so say maybe the first 30 years of our lives we're just learning and only from like 30 to 65 are we contributing can i give you a slightly alternative take on steve jobs sure um i've been obsessed with them in the same way that you have but not from the business perspective but from his whole spiritual journey in india that's actually what got me into steve jobs really i don't know too much about it so i believe this is when he got fired from apple for the first time before he took over pixar uh he had this hiatus where he came to india and he discovered yoga and things like that the book that i


yoga and things like that the book that i was just telling you about the autobiography of yogi oh yeah that's why i heard about it yeah he gave it out i mean his family gave it out at his funeral because he used to read it every year and what you basically gain from that book is uh unfiltered like spiritual wisdom from ancient indian culture but what i believe he gained and i've read that book every year myself in the search for trying to understand what steve jobs gain and the indian cricket team captain virat kohli is the same he also keeps reading that book and these are two of my idols i got very deep into that book because of these two people who i look up to that much got into the kind of meditations and yogas from that particular school and i felt like my creativity really went up both in terms of business as well as content so i would nudge you to read that book i should read it there is there is a


book i should read it there is there is a lot of deep stuff in it i read this other book um i think it's also like some form of buddhism some like himalayan soi something but distilled in a modern format bodhisattvas maybe it's called atma moon and uh also really good helped me a lot what did you gain uh mainly i think the main takeaway is that you're going to die and um all of us kind of know it from uh from a philosophical level but we don't really understand what's going to happen but when you really understand what's going to happen then all that that's left to do is to play i think that's that was a really powerful uh takeaway for me by play you mean enjoy yourself in the moment right now yeah enjoy yourself in the moment and there's nothing to fear is that why there's so much happiness in your eyes like i feel like a really happy and contented person and people in your position are often not and


person and people in your position are often not and trust me i've met people are powerful and who are doing things in life and most people have met in your position or not but i get a very happy energy from you uh it comes and goes it's a roller coaster for me just like for i think most other people okay but at this point you're happy because you're on the runway show exactly um i mean we got to talk a little bit about apple because apple comes up a lot when anyone even googles your name yeah what do you think that organization is doing wrong right now in terms of we spoke about a lack of reinvention and a lack of innovation but what specifically say i give you uh you know the rains to apple if if i tell you that okay carl you're in charge of apple now what would you do i mean imagine for a second that nothing didn't exist i think apple is as close as you can get to perfect execution as a company okay so i


get to perfect execution as a company okay so i wouldn't say they're doing anything wrong i just think that because they're so big and so successful there's opportunity for somebody else to come in because they're so big and successful there's opportunity for someone else when they're so big they have to cater to everybody so then you cannot be special to anybody so if another company is willing to focus on a smaller group of consumers but serve them even better i think there's a lot of gaps in the market so from a company perspective if you look at their stock price their market cap they've been doing everything right in the latest wwdc event they announced that they're launching buy now pay later as well and that's going to help them grow their services revenue by a lot so i think they're doing everything right if i was there i don't think i could have done a better job [Music] but when they came out in the 80s and 90s it wasn't the apple of today because when they


it wasn't the apple of today because when they came and started making the computers there were already a lot of other companies making computers and the thing was back then all those computers looked the same either a gray box or a black box and they had the same hardware inside and the same software and then you had apple was very differentiated from a design perspective he had these translucent semi-transparent imacs and it ran a different software inside and instead of trying to be everything for everybody they targeted the creatives eventually apple became the best they made the best tools for the creatives and because of that the apple brand got associated with creativity and that's what really pulled the masters in because everybody wants to consider themselves creative so by using an apple product 15 years ago you got that creative identity imagine being in a starbucks using a macbook when everybody else was using pcs you felt special but today not anymore because everybody around you has apple products so i just think i don't think they're doing


so i just think i don't think they're doing anything wrong this is the right strategy for their company if we ever get to that size that's probably the same strategy that we'll have to pursue as well because as a company just gotta keep moving forward and keep growing do you have an end goal with nothing are you just gonna keep building keep building hopefully the company will keep uh building itself even after the founding team no i hear you um speaking about the global mobile phone market again we spoke about a lack of reinvention what is the next stage in mobile devices because um there was a there was an indian dude called pranav mystery very long back who did this presentation about it was a very early version of iot internet of things oh that yeah you remember his website before uh and everyone assumed that by the 2020s iot will be here in a very big way at least we kind of optimistically look towards the future with that viewpoint and it's not here yet i'm assuming it's


and it's not here yet i'm assuming it's coming probably in the 2030s so people would turn to someone like yourself and ask you that question that what is the next stage of mobile phones other than the camera is getting really really good and i'm saying that as a content creator we use a modern phones and they're almost as good as islrs so what's the next stage in evolution i think slightly disappointing answer is that i'm probably somebody who thinks very little about the future or the long-term future and the simple reason is that it doesn't really influence us because we're so small as a company and so weak as a small company what you have to do or our strategy is take as little risk as possible let some take as little big risk as possible so when it comes to like where things are going what's the new form factor we don't care let somebody else try it for many many years until they succeed and then we come in and we do it in a different way in our way


we do it in a different way in our way so what's going to happen i think well smartphones are on the hardware side becoming more and more commoditized everybody can see that we're probably at the end of the marginal utility of advanced hardware how much better can the cameras get how much faster can the processors get probably not a lot faster um [Music] on the other hand there's so much technology all around us light bulbs you got the ac and you have a lot of smart home products and tablets and computers and whatnot how can we make everything more seamlessly connected and integrated i think this problem has not been fully solved yet i think i think the smartphone problem is close to being fully solved so this is where at least we are going to spend a lot of our energy and investing in r d in the future but then what's the next thing i don't know let somebody else figure that out and then we'll come in no fair enough uh what's your india experience


in no fair enough uh what's your india experience been been like uh it's been good i haven't been here since uh 2020 okay just at the start of kovid um it's good to be back it's good to have a launch the phone one and then see all the positive reaction meet some of our users meet some of our partners um some of our investors i'm i'm super happy to be a part of your journey uh the reason i ask you about football early on is i think everyone like how you have naruto as a self-identification metaphor i have football and in football i'm the guy who plays in the wing and passes the ball to my striker so if i'm a striker like you i always love being a part of that journey and that play so genuinely it's like we're all like super proud of just being associated with your brother super grateful for for you coming in when there was such a high risk in the business there's still a really high risk i don't know if


still a really high risk i don't know if you know what it happened in the investor call but we had immediately said yes there was no conversation yeah it was just because of you and uh i mean especially with beer biceps we we always believe in working with people rather than things and that's the kind of name you built for yourself one asian kid to another you know like that's the amount of respect you want in indian society for sure but worldwide society and all of the world's eyes on what you choose to do a lot of pressure i mean i don't look at i feel pressure was okay if you're the ronaldo at your subject you know what if you're naruto at your subject well i what i tell all our investors is consider your money gone and maybe one day you'll have a happy return if if my money got me to have a conversation with you i'm okay with that so it's it's much more about just being a part of your journey man honestly thank you and


part of your journey man honestly thank you and i'm saying this in the nicest way possible the most positive way possible but you're an absolutely crazy guy like uh i'm saying that as a compliment i don't meet people like you on my show often yeah i think when you contextualize it maybe like when you're in it every day you don't really think about it yeah do you do you look at yourself like that like do you know you're slightly like different slightly alternative i don't think about it that much i just think about the next couple of problems that we have to solve well i'll tell you what carl like it's really nice seeing you this happy i have one last question for you on this episode sure which is that what's the best and worst aspect of your life right now for the past month i've been staying on the floor at my friend's apartment in london that's really bad because there's a really really big heat wave in the uk right now and he has


heat wave in the uk right now and he has no ac and the reason why i'm doing that is because i was bouncing around airbnb's but then because of summer holiday and this is like the big summer holiday after covid after covid so the prices went up by 3x and it's not like i can't pay but like when you look at the price of 600 pounds for a crappy airbnb per night it's like why would i pay that so and also he doesn't have blinds so it's really bright really hot no ac on the floor for the past month that's been really bad is there like a more uh metaphorical answer like is there something in your mind like i was looking for some mental health angles here honestly is there something more long-term than this also sorry i'm trying to juice out the negatives in your life i mean lack of sleep or a lack of quality sleep really it really really impacts me you have beautiful skin and eyes for someone who's going to a lag i've had bad


someone who's going to a lag i've had bad sleep for the past month um i think when i sleep like more than seven and a half eight hours my iq gets a 50 boost but if i don't boost if i don't sleep like seven hours it i become really really dumb really yeah i mean again it's subjective it's relative maybe yeah okay like when the nothing founder says that it's not really like that dumb what's the bad part of my life a lack of love lack of love i haven't seen my family for a while i'm going to stockholm after after this so looking forward to that and what's the best aspect of your life mr pay the best aspect is getting to meet real people who believe in our vision because that's really weird because it because when it just started it was just words just kept saying things and then things happen and then you meet people who also believe in it and then they happen to have your product that feeling is probably the best feeling you can


that feeling is probably the best feeling you can speak your way to manifesting something have people believe in it and then meet people who actually own the product how was your experience on this show today oh it's very good it's a very natural conversation and uh i'm quite tired of these traditional like media journalists interviews and it's always like a it's almost like a checklist what what kind of do you get asked can you tell me about the spec of this product why is this not this other spec can you but that other product is the specs so what was your thinking there after this product what is the next product that's going to come out uh in india i always get asked is india the indian market important to you so those kind of questions just like already no before meeting them i already know what's gonna happen and here we are talking about your girlfriends and like i love life huh and lsd [Laughter] yeah i don't know if that'll make it to the final cut of


know if that'll make it to the final cut of today's video peep it out i have so many things to say to you that i probably can't say on camera calpe but i'm looking forward to getting to know you over the next two days a little more you're a very intense different human being i've had more than 300 people on this show and you're one of a kind i've not met someone uh as positively zoned out as you and for me what i feel about you is you're constantly thinking about either the product or problem solving for the product right now you're like a highly determined guy and it's uh it's really cool to see that you also focus on aspects of philosophy aspects of relationships in the middle of all that execution mentality that's going on in your head man so i have like a lot of respect for you and uh you know the thing you said about um being a kid in sweden uh a lot of asian kids all over the world go through that you


asian kids all over the world go through that you know i bet yeah like when they move out to different cultures like a for american indians there's a term called abcd which is american born confused they see where you don't know which part of the world you actually belong to but it's stories like yours that kind of shows the effect of globalization on the planet that now you know i think this whole concept of borders is gradually going to fade away over the next 200 years we're going to become global yeah in the middle of all that you can't forget your identity and your sense of culture i believe so as well and i also really enjoyed this uh talk and thanks for having me no thank you brother wish you all the luck thank you for making us a part of your journey lots of fanboys in the house and uh we've passed the ball to you and we're going to see you score five more goals that's what i'll say awesome thank you thank you carl appreciate it brother


thank you thank you carl appreciate it brother ah so that was the episode with calpe the joy of podcasting is that you get to deep dive inside people's minds and i don't think i've met anyone who's as execution oriented as this person while he sits on the levels of success that he's achieved over the course of the following two days after we recorded this episode i got to hang out with carl and i figured how engineering oriented he is how execution oriented he is obviously and what a simple humble dude he is he's all about action he's all about high quality products and he's all about his brand being much more famous than the person behind the brand now i know that this episode was much more about the person than the product but as an organization that's backing nothing trust me this is just the beginning of this fantastic company looking forward everything nothing does looking forward to everything carl pay accomplishes in his own life i do believe we're witnessing the rise of a


do believe we're witnessing the rise of a new age steve jobs in calpe for more stories like this for more fantastic episodes like this make sure you follow us on spotify every episode's available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this was kalpe on the randy show [Music] you


i think crying is one of the most powerful medicines and we want men to cry we want boys to cry of course people are going to don't cry for stupid stuff okay your girlfriend said this to you you're hurt you're going to cry in front of her no but you can go into your own space and cry your heart out because i can guarantee you one thing after you cry the feeling that you have is not good it's empowering there is nothing wrong crying is therapeutic there is signs in it i get my cancer patients to cry all the time i say please cry because a lot of people say laugh laugh laugh positive think positive think positive is the worst advice and a lot of our patients who have had miscarriages there are many many many uses causes of a miscarriage but you know one that comes out more prominently now and ask every patient who's gone through at any point did you reject this child in your mind and in most cases of miscarriages most not


mind and in most cases of miscarriages most not all the mother was yes i never wanted to have the child but my husband or my in-laws or my whatever you as the murder the source of holding a child has rejected it at a subconscious level your body will make sure you don't have the child i'm a proud indian citizen i've spoken about my own past very often on this podcast i've had an ayahuasca experience myself ayahuasca psychedelic psilocybin these aren't drugs of course they're used for recreation all over the world but these are not substances that you should get into these are not substances you should use for fun the world of neuroscience the world of neurology studies these substances to understand science better to understand therapy better to understand our world better we've shared our own ayahuasca experiences our own silo cyber experiences on this particular episode the intention is to not encourage any viewer any listener to consume drugs drug addiction of any form will harm you


drugs drug addiction of any form will harm you any addiction of any form will harm you but you know what the society that we all have grown up in it's not the way that human beings are meant to live and that's why we see so many mental health issues so rampant in modern times whether you're an indian listener whether you're a listener from outside our country this is a conversation on shrooms on the worldwide mental health pandemic and on one of my favorite subjects parental issues daddy's mommy issues we spoke about mental strength we spoke about the concept of the dark knight of the soul with one of india's most respected health professionals luke coutinho this episode is very close to my heart and i hope you enjoyed as much as i enjoyed creating it prs is spotify exclusive every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this podcast is all about letting our heart out it's myself that's my guest open free-flowing conversations


myself that's my guest open free-flowing conversations just like this one of the heaviest most emotional episodes that we've ever created it's with the legend himself luke coutinho [Music] luke coutinho welcome back to a new age version of trs the all-star is back how are you good good how are you doing i'm great i have so much to say about my recent experiences which i would only share on a episode with you but i actually want to get to know about your reality first this is me not speaking to you as a professional but just as a person right what's been up because i've realized that men especially in our country evolve a lot through the course of their 40s and 50s some evolve sometimes in a negative direction and what i mean by that is some move towards more mental health issues i noticed that a lot in bollywood uh how are you generally let's begin there i'm in a fantastic space fantastic space today i don't know how tomorrow will be but today i'm in


know how tomorrow will be but today i'm in a fantastic space because i've learned to see life that every moment can be different but right now rather than labeling my life because i have five bad things happening that my face right now is bad it's amazing i think the last couple of months have been amazing doesn't mean there's there have been no struggles and stuff but it's been amazing because i feel amazing i like to go with how i feel not with what's happening so it's been amazing but like i said i don't know what's going to happen tomorrow and whatever happens tomorrow it's a phase do you ever have lows i can't imagine absolutely absolutely i would have had three laws of photos this morning itself because i had two very difficult cancer patients in the morning and i have one terminally ill right now what i'm thinking about but there are so many highs also happening and i choose to focus on the highs because the lows are out


focus on the highs because the lows are out of control they're completely out of control it can make me feel bad but it cannot dictate how i'm going to feel in the next hour i think that's the gift of the process of aging you just learn to let go of the overthinking before it becomes something big in your head overthinking but i'll tell you what's worked for me because i've been reflecting on why am i in such a good space the last couple of you know months it's because i've learned to stop resisting what i'm choosing the path of non-resistance anything you see nature is most people don't have stress in their life and i know this is going to be funny because everyone's saying we have stress in our life but most people don't they only have circumstances events and people that they're resisting that is their stress most people don't have stress it is something or someone that they are resisting that is now causing their suffering which is their stress so by removing


their suffering which is their stress so by removing away from because resistance is not solving a problem it's only depleting energy and that's what i've learned it's a simple example we have a wall in front of us okay and now you and i are gonna try to push that wall down okay it's resistance it's because it's a strong wall you and i are pushing we're depleting energy getting frustrated it's a law of nature the wall is strong okay when do i stop pushing it and say that if i need to get to the other side okay one way is breaking down the wall the other way is going around above all maybe i don't want to get that other side it's not important it's not my why so i've dropped resistance doesn't mean i'm not ambitious doesn't mean i'm not going to try hard but i've dropped resistance on things that i cannot control people that i cannot control doesn't make you a domat so the resistance i believe has bought me inner


so the resistance i believe has bought me inner peace over the last couple of months and i am enjoying it what is the process of aging for a man like what do you notice about your own body and you're someone who's really taken care of yourself no but i've never felt i've aged till now i know i'm gonna age i don't feel i don't fee i believe age is a number i think it's perception again i've never looked at oh i'm going to celebrate my 30s and my 40s and stuff like that never never because it's a number what's there to celebrate in it so till date i know my body is going to change i know that's why i work harder at preserving it i will die i will get old i will lose muscle mass i will have more gray hair i may lose hair i'm okay with it i made my piece with it because i know the quickest way to age is through stress the quickest and no amount of cosmetics metformins


the quickest and no amount of cosmetics metformins can stop that at all so because i'm privileged to speak to patients and learn from their mistakes that's why i can follow that particular part so i don't believe it i can do most things that maybe a 20 year could do i'm not very flexible because i didn't take care of flexibility earlier but now i'm learning that while i'm improving my yoga practice my body can still change at the age of 40 40 142 i can still get flexible and that's the beauty of the human body so i'm not going to let age come as a number and say this people will say oh your sex drive will start decreasing at 35 40 45 50. i have clients at in the age group of 65 and 70 who are probably having more sex than people on tinder libido and all of that and that's the beauty so you see social media oh age your sex travel decree no if you believe that it's gonna happen but if you maintain


that it's gonna happen but if you maintain your testosterone levels the right way and you're exercising and you believe that sex is not about impression and how much you're vigor but it's so much more than you know everything else you can have a great sex life when you're 65 and 70. i'm not 65 and 70 but i have loads of people who are having enviable sex life literally men and women so age is just the number but because we age we respect our body more because we know from the time we're born we've started dying yeah so with that respect for the body i probably make better lifestyle decisions uh you know turning this whole anti-stress conversation into something actionable genuinely one of the best mental health exercises that i did for myself in my recent past was taking up yoga classes like just understanding the abcs of it right and understanding how stress is also stored in the body but also understanding the power of your own bones and what's inside and this is something i


own bones and what's inside and this is something i feel people aren't aware of i actually think you told me about this the last time you were recording off camera something about the bone marrow and the powers that it holds oh yeah for your mind as well as the recovery of your body absolutely you want to shed some light on that sure you're born so so let me break down so i do integrative medicine integrative medicine and oncology is very important when it comes to your bone marrow because when we talk about immunity immunity has been thrown around because of the pandemic some people think immunity is more gilloy more turmeric more garlic it's far from that your bones your bone marrow produces something called stem cells you have the right number of stem cells and quality of stem cells you have a fantastic immune system doesn't mean you won't fall sick you can fall sick but your recovery will be a breeze like we've seen two populations people who get covert and suffer miserably and take


who get covert and suffer miserably and take months to heal and you say people who get covered 24 hours later they're back asymptomatic everything's fine what's the difference the immune system nothing else mitochondrial dysfunction so stem cells is everything and that's why stem cell treatments today bone marrow transplants is your ultimate when it comes to certain cancers if you can get the bone to produce stem cells your body's intelligence heals you how do you trigger it is it through stretching so many beautiful things stretching food sleep again so when you look at burn victims there's a grade burn grades one two three four so one treatable two treatable three it's scar the bones they're probably between a three and four they're going to put you in a unit where it's completely sealed not even dust can get in because you have no immune system your bones damaged you can't produce stem cells you're literally without an immune system which means most of those bone burn patients will die of infection not because of


bone burn patients will die of infection not because of the burn my god so that is the importance of bone of bones now when we look at bone again building muscle better bone health less preservatives better bone health it's not about calcium that's the biggest myth more calcium means better bones we need calcium k2 magnesium and d3 in a matrix for better bones walking one of the best exercises for bone health yoga yeah that's what all of this you know a lot of these uh yoga practitioners that i meet often have radiant skin look way younger than they are a great hair and i put you in that same bracket you know like when you meet certain people they glow even more in person like the camera sometimes doesn't catch the glow correctly but sometimes you just meet someone and there's so much peace on their face and it's often because of some high level of yoga or a bunch of lifestyle factors that they're doing uh you know together but specifically when we're talking


you know together but specifically when we're talking about yoga what i've understood is that your bones are not brittle that's what people think bones are people think bones are like you know something hard it's not glass but it's something you can't bend bones are actually meant to bend slightly yeah there's a slight flexibility and that's what yoga brings back it brings flexibility of your muscles like of your connective tissue but also your bones and that's why yoga also true yoga will also allow your asana not to look instagram perfect can you explain this yeah so if you look on instagram every asana is perfect so it makes people think yoga is difficult but a real yoga teacher even if i'm unable to do that asana doesn't look right but i'm moving into that i'm stimulating my bones my cartilages my it's about getting into the pores it's not about reaching that perfect pose there are many people who will never reach that perfect pose but because they're doing it consistently


that perfect pose but because they're doing it consistently it's working for them so again people think yogas will be that perfect insect they wait you know most people putting up their poses have probably clicked 10 15 20 pictures you should be so proud to put up the first picture of your asana no matter how funny it looks and send a message to the world that i'm in the journey of maybe reaching there but this is the real me it's you know that's how it is yeah um do you think like this great skin and hair that we see with like people like yourself or yoga practitioners is it down to your bones producing more stem cells which actually go and heal pimples faster take away uh pigmentation of your skin faster it can play a very small role but there's a lot more it's also it's it's also i know a lot of people who eat junk food don't have the best lifestyles but yet they glow so while i would like to say that yes nutrition


so while i would like to say that yes nutrition is everything and stuff see think of it as you and i we have a candle inside everyone it's your spirit when your spirit is nurtured you are going to glow irrespective even someone who's darker skinned you will see a glow in them it's that inner candle which is your spirit when the spirit is clouded like you may say i'm glowing right now but if i start to think negative thoughts and bad thoughts and bad intentions the glow you will see the glow disappear in front of you i'm diminishing my own spirit you know so it's not always food and bone it plays a huge role because again more stem cells lesser inflammation what's the fastest thing that ages people inflammation chronic inflammation so the the more trained my immune system to switch off inflammation the younger you are gonna be you're not gonna reverse aging but you're gonna slow it down and most people today are aging way before their age way before


people today are aging way before their age way before so now i can sit and meditate for four hours in a day it doesn't mean i'm gonna slow down aging i have to meditate but i also have to take the essence of my meditation it can't just be good thoughts and clarity in that one hour of meditation how do i move it into my day how do i move it into a life situation into a relationship and that's what keeps the spirit alive i think this hardware and software when it comes to this topic and the last episode was about the hardware maybe this one's a little bit more about the software the hardware is all your lifestyle factors your habits your choice in food software is down to so many other things it's done your childhood experiences it's down to your partner it's down to your career choices software is governed by so much which is why i want to highlight a couple of netflix documentaries and i'll tell you why i'm highlighting this we've created an episode


you why i'm highlighting this we've created an episode on ayahuasca and the world of neurology and how it's studying these substances correct um these are not recreational drugs though they are listed as class one uh drugs what's the word right class a's and class different classes which which puts them in the same category as heroin cocaine correct these are not addictive these are not used for recreation if done correctly and administered through trained professionals uh from a spiritual perspective also they can be immensely beneficial for your software absolutely it's all the things you were crying about now things out of our control when you started dating that person you didn't know that that person will cause these kind of problems in your life boom they did what do you do now your software's a little yeah muddy um when you were taking up this career you didn't know that it'll be this challenging boom your software is muddy but western doctors and i'm what i mean is american neurologists european neurologists


i mean is american neurologists european neurologists neuroscientists all over the world are studying these substances psilocybin mescaline uh dmt to kind of help us with the software problems that we see all over the world right uh the two documentaries i've seen on netflix which really kind of opened up my eyes one was called fantastic fungi or fungi yeah which is about mushrooms and mycelium and it's an incredible documentary the second one is um it's like it's a new one it's called how to change your mind and each episode ones about silence and one's about masculine uh one's about something else wonder what i think just lsd have you seen fantastic fungi i think i've seen that one i've not seen the second one okay although a lot of my clients now i know they've been sending me the last couple of days i think it's new yeah hey listen can we do this can we do this i think it's how to change your mind yeah exactly um what do


how to change your mind yeah exactly um what do you want to tell people as a health professional about fungi and why lots of neurologists believe that psychedelic mushrooms are going to be a very big deal in the world of neuroscience in the world of mental health even psychologists all over the world are starting to learn more about these subjects uh why don't you kind of just transfer the data from fantastic fungi to trs through luke coutinho so it's very simple we have to be open to everything if we're open to pharmaceuticals pumping people with chemicals with massive side effects we're open to that okay we have to also open be open to an alternative when i say an alternative it doesn't mean that i'm saying stop taking your drugs and rely on a mushroom to kill you integrate it but be open to the fact that it's not being studied right now it was being studied from world war ii scientists in la were studying and there are experiments done on world war ii


and there are experiments done on world war ii soldiers on the usage of lsd they just found that while it had so many benefits it wasn't ideal for a soldier because reflexes were being delayed and the soldier could get killed because you need reflexes it's being studied for the longest time and i think the world today has to be open to it again it's perception of a young kid or even a young adult okay today who says that oh wow i'm gonna trip i'm gonna be happy i'm gonna wrong perception but when you look at what it can do at a mental emotional state and even a spiritual space it can fire neurons that you would never fire in any stage of your life the brain is so diverse your neural pathways signaling pathways are so diverse mushrooms today we use mushrooms in all of our diets different types because it's been scientifically studied as one of the most powerful foods so while you have normal mushrooms again silocyben now


while you have normal mushrooms again silocyben now we can call psilocybin a psychedelic okay i call it a medicine while the effect is psychodia psychedelic it doesn't make it just a psychedelic because then you classify it into the whole category of drugs and stuff like that my point is today people don't want to be chronically sick anymore the world is chronically sick people are living till 80 and 90 and we call it as advancement in technology but we've not been able to reduce suffering or get people to get better this is where psychedelics are going to come in at some point especially when diseases today 90 of them are caused by emotional issues poor childhoods cause poor thought processes wrong behaviors lifestyle diseases now we can't go back into that childhood and change anything but if we open up new ways of seeing the problem because the point is if you know people who have done ayahuasca lsd they see life very differently i'm not talking about the


life very differently i'm not talking about the wannabe crowd i'm talking about people who are deeply into it not overusing it using it with the right intention they see life differently they see a problem differently they see relationships differently why how is how can you see something differently your brain so new solutions come up new problems come up they can be very calm they don't see a common relationship problem as a really relationship problem they just see it as an up or a down different perception the problem is the same so neuroscientists they are realizing the power of the mind so anything that can empower the mind is now going to become medicine okay so whether it's mushrooms whether it's lsd and again when we talk about this it's not to give permission to the audience to misuse it because there are a lot of people not even getting the right quality yeah they don't even know they don't even know a very few people know that a good lsd trip can last for 14


know that a good lsd trip can last for 14 to 18 hours today with the street lsd that you get people are two hours and then they want a candy flip they want a parachute they want mdma because it's not given them because they've gone in with the wrong intention but there's a whole population it's like ayahuasca today you have people bringing ayahuasca to karjat and trying to you you don't do it you go to the amazon you do it under the guidance of a spiritual shaman who will give you logic science and will change the way you see life when you're ready for it but let me tell you something everyone who's ever taken a pharmaceutical drug if you break down every ingredient okay it'll actually make a lot of the drugs that you look at so negatively you'll realize that what you're taking is far worse far worse it's not a comparison i'm not saying drugs are better than that of course they're addictive in nature and that's why they're bad and


in nature and that's why they're bad and you shouldn't do it but the point is when you really get to learn what these chemicals and most of your pharmaceutical drugs are doing for you okay it will change your perception to everything around you but you don't know and it's best that you don't know that's how it is you know i think human minds understand stories so i'm going to kind of share a couple of stories here the origins of both ayahuasca and magic mushrooms um ayahuasca is a combination of two plants in the amazon rainforest the amazon rainforest is home to more than millions of species of plants how do you figure that when you combine these two you get this so no one knows how people figure out what ayahuasca is uh ayahuasca is a drink that you do in spiritual circumstances ideally with a shaman when you drink it they make you lie down it kicks in 15-20 minutes later and the ayahuasca kind of takes you through your own mind someone


kind of takes you through your own mind someone had quantified meditation as being at different levels and they say that these substances push you to the eighth level of meditation meditation has even more levels than this but pushes you to a very high meditative state and what that means for a biological level is probably new neural uh pathways are opened up in that state of mind you know how you feel after a great meditation you open your eyes colors are more saturated what's happening the brain has switched into some other gear correct now this is a substance that without the meditation it just makes you jump there so you understand oh my mind is also capable of feeling this this year and seeing and seeing things yeah uh probably you see some new color you you like oh i can't even like describe what this i don't know how do you describe a new color you know like it's a color beyond what we know on the rainbow spectrum coming back to what ayahuasca does you always have to write


to what ayahuasca does you always have to write down what you want from a therapeutic trip so you take a piece of paper and you say okay i need these things from this experience you can't just do it for fun that's how the shamanic uh people in south america have used it for more than what they believed to be 50 000 years which is when humans are still hunter gatherers someone figured that yes when you combine these two substances you get this portion which can be used for therapeutic purposes yes and there's historians like graham and goku attribute uh that a revolution of consciousness where i believe that's when humans roughly started farming like tools got much better suddenly so they attributed to these substances that's the story of ayahuasca only recently is being discovered by the world of neuroscience and neurology so you see all these documentaries and so many people talking about it uh and these are not recommendations we're just sharing knowledge here uh if you want to do i ask


knowledge here uh if you want to do i ask you have to go to the amazon you do your own research uh i'm sure it's illegal in most countries all over the world but it's not for recreation the second story i really have to highlight is what i kind of learned in fantastic fungi and paul stamets doing his podcast with joe rogan fungus is a very important part of our earth mushroom is a type of fungus there's something called a mycelium net and please correct me and a communication network basically yeah so basically say there's a mango tree which is a very powerful mango tree and uh it produces a mango which has a seed inside the good leaf okay and one of the mangoes falls down an animal kind of a half eats it and drops it a little bit far away say two kilometers away right now here we had this powerful mother tree okay but the animals dropped that seed from the mother tree two kilometers away over ten years a new mango tree


kilometers away over ten years a new mango tree grows now this new mango tree is the child of the old mother but they are connected they are mother and child i think botanists have done this is what was in fantastic fungi botanists have performed experiments where they found out that mother trees still supply their children which are kilometers away from themselves through not their network of roots but through an underground network of fungi called the mycelium net correct so it's like a nervous system all over the earth's crust so very likely the earth's crust a part of the earth that's in india is very much connected to a part of the earth's crust in france absolutely through the mycelium light it's just how the nature of the earth's crust is what's weird is that we have also evolved from fungi we think our earliest ancestor is the monkey that's the image we have no no no you evolve from a singular cell organism but somewhere along the evolution of that singular cell


but somewhere along the evolution of that singular cell organism it became a mushroom and it stayed there its cousin turned into an animal turned into an insect which is what we evolved from so mushroom is an ancient ancestor of us we have fungus inside our body as well we're in touch with the earth right now if you walk on grass without slippers correct yeah you're also connected to the mycelium neck the fungus in your body is connecting with the fungus inside the earth now what i'd like to highlight is that we often think that as human beings we're the most intelligent beings on earth what about orcas killer whales who have their own culture correct what about elephants if anyone uh has spent time in national parks or spoken to zoologists people keep talking about the intelligence that elephants have just scientific discovery is not the complete gauge for intelligence mushrooms also according to fantastic fungi have their own intelligence and they've been there even before the dinosaurs so they saw the dinosaurs


even before the dinosaurs so they saw the dinosaurs and survived because the nature of a mushroom and the nature of fungus is such that it can survive in the worst possible conditions even in cockroaches that mushrooms will survive now here's an organism that's been existing on earth and evolving by itself while we've gone on down our own path of evolution why do we say we're more evolved in this organism if it's older if it could take over a whole planet through the crust maybe when we die through asteroids or tsunamis the fungus will still be alive now who's more evolved you know yeah so fantastic fungi claims that there are certain psychedelic mushrooms again you consume it just like you consume ayahuasca but when you consume it you're taking in a bit of that intelligence inside your body and of course you're not supposed to use it for recreation as most people do most people have this recreational perspective on mushroom and then you've got someone like


on mushroom and then you've got someone like paul it's joe rogan these people who talk about the therapeutic uses of psychedelic mushrooms that when you eat it actually tapping into a much higher much more ancient intelligence that mother mango tree is finding its way to you right do you look at it in a similar absolutely so it comes down to you made some fantastic points which i want to bring out okay sure because uh the thing is it's not about who's smarter man or nature we have to coexist because we're interdependent on each other you take nature out of a person's life we do not we'll survive because the body's resilient but we can never thrive we begin we begin to decompose and die immediately immediately you know the whole point is coexistence number two it's energy so why when you walk on mud or you walk on grass you feel energetic there are energy exchanges happening even between people even between people there is energy exchange happening with all of us right now


energy exchange happening with all of us right now because our biorhythms are interdependent and interconnected in this room right now that's why if i say something there can be four different perceptions in this room and four different emotions because of four different perceptions so we are and therapeutically we have to always understand if we can feel it if it's doing something good for us it's because we have the receptors cannabis how does it make you high because you have an opiate receptor if you didn't have an opiate receptor you couldn't get high we are producing opiates in our brain without cannabis we are producing steroids like i said we're producing a pharmacy of drugs in our body when pharmaceuticals didn't exist so when pharmaceuticals didn't exist the shamans all of them they found that nature can have these effects if it worked then just because science says oh it's not documented there's no evidence the point is who's studying it who's funding studies for these things no one


it who's funding studies for these things no one that's why you have to have people who go and make these documentaries dedicate a life to show us a show as great and scientific as this one because no one's interested there's no money to be made there's no money to be made in that who's taking meditation as a subject and really blowing it out with all the science that already exists no one because there's no money to be made from it in fact a lot of people will lose money if we become calmer people if we become happier people we don't need so much that is money and business to other people so absolutely psychedelics use the right dosage the right quality the right time for the right people even for the right people so an assessment of a shaman he will also tell you whether you are right for this or it's too early for you he will tell you that it is so important for us to understand the connection of therapeutics and us so we can't judge it we


therapeutics and us so we can't judge it we can't just say if science says this i'll do this we have to go into depth because science has also made us believe things which are not right yeah so what i wanted to tell you was that i've had a mushroom experience in my past okay um i've also had an ayahuasca experience just spoken about on the show and it's been a podcast that's helped a lot of people a lot of ceos army folks um entrepreneurs come up to me and speak about specifically that episode while i was making it i didn't realize what i was putting out there but it's helped a lot of people and it's kind of opened up people's eyes to ayahuasca but mushrooms are a completely different uh trip again this requires its own solo episode but i'll tell you in short so now i ask you feel the presence of a mother which is supposed to heal you but you feel a very strong switch in personality right after you do it


very strong switch in personality right after you do it mushrooms are not the same and to understand what a mushroom can do to you therapeutically try understanding what a mushroom does in nature if you just leave a piece of food out in the forest if nothing eats it it'll gradually rot yeah and a mushroom will form on top of it and mushroom will help it corrode it kind of helps raw food corrode psychedelic mushrooms help corrode the aspects of yourself that you want to let go of but you can't so say you're dealing with a heartbreak right you're dealing with some failure or rejection in your career you're dealing with something that's happened in your childhood which you're not able to let go of right that's the therapeutic perspective of mushrooms i did it with the shaman there was meditation involved those breathing techniques involved the ayahuasca gave me the gift of self-belief the mushroom took me through a very deep experience but did


took me through a very deep experience but did not give me any gift it gave me tasks right it definitely softened those three four things i was fighting and it also showed me a fifth thing it showed me the relationship with my dad that i'm supposed to fix but it wasn't something i was thinking of actively at that stage of my life right but it just pointed me in that direction so that maybe these four problems also because of that partially but you don't know it yet right opens up parts of your mind that you didn't know so you do come on a different person because you've had sort of a higher experience the one thing i gained from the mushroom experience and you only realize this a few weeks after you've done it you realize oh i'm changed in this manner so for me it was empathy which i believe the mushroom does for a lot of people because you're tapping into the mycelium network again the earth's crust the fungus that's in me is also


crust the fungus that's in me is also in you you have a very deep sense of empathy then for other people like i feel like i was always an empathetic person but empathy just skyrocketed to another level to the degree where it shifted my career goals from just a primarily capitalistic goals to a lot more social workers to a lot more outward to a lot more i don't know almost healing related work because that's what the world needs right now it doesn't need the capitalists or the individual heroes it means healers and artists and people who can put out help but life-changing like i remember having this conversation with you outside of the balcony i said that i'm a little too chill nowadays almost to the degree where i question a question how things are going so well you know not skeptically just little experimentally right and things were not so good before the mushroom experience but it's just changed my perception of myself and i'm much more kind of easy i'm not that harsh on


more kind of easy i'm not that harsh on myself probably empathy towards others also translated into empathy towards my own heart what fascinates me about your story is because i would always be fascinated a person like you who's evolved grown learned through at a young age you know what would you get out of a trip i've always thought about it what would runway get out of an lsd trip out of an ayahuasca trip out of a mushroom trip and what you're saying here's a deeper connection which i'm sure you figured out when can we feel empathy cannot be taught to people we can only feel empathetic when we know that we're connected you can only feel compassionate a lot of people say oh let's be compassionate you can't unless you feel that there is a connection and now because there's a connection i feel i'm not alone i'm not selfish i can be empathetic when i can feel someone else's pain it could be a stranger they say they teach us


could be a stranger they say they teach us when we do nutrition medicine for dying patients you cannot be emotionally connected maybe that's right but if i can't feel the patient the pain of my patient i can't go to a degree of empathy which will give which will make me give my 500 percent i'm a robot it is needed we have to feel one another's pain pain is a beautiful thing we can learn from other people's suffering because we're connected judgment happens easily when we judge people when we see ourselves as isolations but this connection that you're talking about and how it's made you empathetic is the true meaning of how we're supposed to be when it's empathy a lot of people can talk you know on empathy and spirituality just textbook knowledge but without feeling yeah i mean you did a beautiful podcast with uh gargopaldas i think yeah no one spiritual leader if i'm not mistaken i think it was him where he summed up spirituality in to the fact


where he summed up spirituality in to the fact that there's a little bit of god in everyone just by knowing that who am i to disrespect anyone there is god i may not like you but disrespecting putting you down making intentions to crush you i'm disrespecting god and that's that's such a beautiful thing that shows us connection with one another so i'll be a little more compassionate this is beautiful run maybe the biological way of looking at it is there's a little bit of that mycelium network absolutely you can take that and absolutely connect it to that whole thing see we're a network we are absolutely a network and that's why vibes work why do we vibe with some people we don't why would some people why do some relationships work out and some don't sometimes the connection just breaks and you think how could this connection break because nothing's permanent the pathway could have changed one person could have evolved faster than you you could evolve faster than your partner and now there's a


evolve faster than your partner and now there's a disconnection the network's broken can it be fixed absolutely yes but you break a network in nature two things can happen nature can fix that network or will destroy that entire crop or that entire species of trees in goa there's a mushroom which is no longer allowed to be taken it's a beautiful tasty mushroom because if you pluck out that mushroom it is required for the termites no one wants termites in their home because they eat your wood but in the forest it is required so by taking out mushrooms you've disrupted an intelligence in these forests in goa and the area around it the western ghats and stuff like that where you will destroy all nature in that area and that ties in exactly what you're talking about this network that exists above ground and underground yeah um i mean the mushroom trip depending on how much you take it can almost last you one whole day um and there's a synchronization process where everything you've experienced


there's a synchronization process where everything you've experienced through the trip you're supposed to write down or at least record invoice so that it stays in your consciousness and those are your tasks that you'll have to perform over the following weeks or months uh the weird thing i've noticed and i've had lots of conversations with successful basically really kind of capitalistic entrepreneurs who did experience mushrooms and then changed up completely again opened up a whole social work angle etc a lot of people had this common experience of definitely feeling another entity with you as is the case with ayahuasca but this is a genderless identity you know ayahuasca you feel like a woman's presence yeah the second commonality that people said about mushroom experiences was that it does sort of take over your brain's voice neural pathways in terms of the things you start hearing in your own mind as well as the things you start saying are very strange you're not able to form sentences at the peak of your trip um you're able to


at the peak of your trip um you're able to put words together which form an idea for example um a friend of mine his idea was god is to give god is give god is give so hate it switched from god is shift to god is given when he told me this i kind of i was like yeah that's a little silly but when you go through the mushrooms yourself and you realize how it takes away your mind at the peak of the trip where it gives you these little messages i was dealing with like a bad breakup at that time and i mainly took it to kind of get passive because therapy wasn't working etc it just gave me the message that um uh that that person where it didn't work out it was to teach you to value the next one that comes in because even you were at fault it wasn't just the other person's fault because that's what we tend to do as humans and with our human ego we kind of have this oh i did nothing


ego we kind of have this oh i did nothing wrong uh in that past moment but you you did do some wrong things and it's important to acknowledge that and move forward in life so empathy again even for who you consider to be the biggest villains in your life right it teaches you empathy through these little commandments those commandments you're supposed to write down and act upon it right uh the other kind of commandment i got was to spend a lot more time with my closest family members who are aging now where your roles are switching where you're not the kid anymore you're probably becoming the parent yeah you know and eventually when they are old you become the parent they are the kids but right now you're at the stage where you all are the same age it's like benjamin button the movie yeah where he meets the girl at the age of 40 and they're the same age for that one moment in their life yeah when you're 30 years old as an adult in india you're


30 years old as an adult in india you're often at the same mental age as your parents after this things are going to switch and this is the point where you need to take control of this so anyway that was my trip i think that's amazing and there are so many messages that people need to take from this one is the structure that you put in the intention that you set it's all about intention yeah and i mean it's all about intention not doing it for fun yeah i mean you we can make things fun but again intention again you know most people's intention like i mean i grew up and go out a whole hippy thing i've seen how rave parties change from dental what they are now what are they know like now it's it's a it's a fest to pick up women men show who's better flash rolexes at a rave party where before you would have the least clothing on i mean you know like you wouldn't care about you don't dress up you're in