and i had a lot of opposition to implement direct bank transfers because contractors were very very attempting right or the the other areas with a lot of leakages which have been saved so i would say i've never worked for a legacy i've been only looking at one data time to do justice to what i've come for and also to see a sense of self-fulfillment for myself because i owe to myself what have i grown up for if i'm not going to deliver and succeed so i want to succeed so that everybody wants to succeed i believe in empowerment i give a tea a mantra when i took over took the oath of office the tea mantra was trusting empowering and accountability i said i trust you you trust me i empower you you are empowered feel empowered and third is i shall remain accountable as people you remain accountable to the rule of law when i said it first time a speech was made by lieutenant governor at the oath ceremony but i gave the


at the oath ceremony but i gave the tea mantra to the people of puducherry saying i shall remain trustworthy i shall empower you and i shall remain accountable you remain accountable to law and you feel empowered by uh that will be your removal of poverty when you participate in the rule of law right and you remain uh trustworthy if we remain trustworthy empowered and accountable puducherry would be a model what we lost out on had the political class not come in the way and not unnecessarily been hostile we could have offered the model to the world of what a collaborative gov that's what indira nui said it's a blueprint of good governance indra nui released my book and she said it's a blueprint for good governance the leadership practices which have been given in the fearless governance cut across private and public sector that's what she said in the book release of a coming out of her means hell of a lot and she read the book when she released


a lot and she read the book when she released my book so that's what i said i have not done it for legacy i've only done it it was my duty to fulfill i have looked at i'm a believer in the karma yogi concept i believed in doing my karma and for me work is worship for me work is worship exactly the way my for my mother bringing us up was worship for her work is worship for me work has been worshipped and trusting that it should remain till the last day of my breath well that's beautiful ma'am as as our generation calls it this has been one wholesome episode you know it's a very feel-good episode and i have to ask you sort of a i don't know if it's a feel-good question or a deep question to end this particular one but it's something i truly wish to ask you are you happy at this stage in life and what is happiness for you today after a long time i'm my self-master of my own


a long time i'm my self-master of my own time and it's a very fulfilling i spend my own time reading i'm doing exactly what i'm looking for and i've just finished writing the book actually right now now we are discussing the book so it's still not given me that whole time to myself the book re see i've released the book only three weeks ago a few weeks ago so now at the moment it's a follow-up of the book a lot of webinars on the on the grooming of leadership i think it still take time for this to settle but once it does i do not know what comes ahead but but i'm there to see that my every day remains a day of accomplishment where i get a sense of fulfillment i do i owe this to my country i owe this to my service and i owe it to my family no doctor kiran berimam thank you uh i know we're not supposed to talk about legacy and we're talking about being a karma yogi but


we're talking about being a karma yogi but for me considering where we are in the world of content i feel that your content legacy has just begun the more podcasts that you appear on of course selfishly i want you to be on our show again but generally the more podcasts that you appear on the more nectar you can like you know give out to india i feel in the long term both in hindi and in english so i i mean i'm no one to encourage you to do anything but i would gently nudge you towards this world of podcasting ma'am because there's a lot of questions that the youth has generally uh for thought leaders for people who've been in positions of power and i feel you're someone who has a lot of experience so honestly of course i encourage the listeners to check out the book they'll purchase the book we'll link it down below but i would encourage you to just be out there even more on the internet because you have that much to offer ma'am and


internet because you have that much to offer ma'am and uh i'd like to probably end this one by just saying a big thank you from the bottom of my heart uh i've spoken to sudha murthy ma'am i've spoken to you and the commonality i see between you two is that you have this aura of comfort around you and that's that's possibly the core strength of yours again going back to what are a woman's professional strengths the core of it is this like i didn't feel for a second that i'm talking to dr kiran bedi i felt like i'm talking to some relative who's looking out for me so thank you ma'am this was one of my most memorable podcasts the good news ranveer is that i'm using this book fearless governance to groom leadership so now it is i'm not declining any webinar request any podcast request so i sometimes have three three a day three three a day but i choose them i it's my choice but it's after they've read the book


my choice but it's after they've read the book so when they i do a webinar my condition is here's my soft copy please read it i want the youth to ask me questions and challenge me because i am now wanting to groom the next generation of leadership so i am doing exactly what you're suggesting thank you but you this is a wonderful thought and exactly i'm doing that i will continue to do this no ma'am i'm just thank you for everything thank you for this episode thank you for everything you've done for the country mom i salute that as well uh and just i hope to see you again hopefully the next episode will be in person and i i hope and wish all the peace and happiness in the universe be in the palm of your hand thank you so grateful so grateful thank you all right so that was the episode for today was extremely special because speaking to dr bedi was a dream for me and the dream has come true through this podcast that's been the


has come true through this podcast that's been the journey of this show you know i'm getting to talk to so many people that's what people don't understand about podcasters that this process of podcasting really opens up doors opens up the possibilities of intense conversations just like this it opens up change within the podcaster's mind because you're getting educated through the guests this podcast is my higher education and it was just an absolute honor hosting doctor bathy you know what at this point i'm also going to add this extra clip of this conversation that didn't make it to the podcast but here's what she had to say and randhir i want you to know i saw your mother's uh you and your mom's show oh wow wow i loved it your mom was so authentic she was so honest in all that she said i think it was a lovely episode i ran into you know it was not searching i just ran into it as if nature conspired that i wanted to they want me to see


that i wanted to they want me to see you with your mom and i heard your show it was so wonderful you've got a wonderful mother no thank you i'm going to cut this clip this is not a part of the podcast anyway but my mom is this is going to be one of the greatest moments she's a huge admirer of yours like he doesn't care that whatever i've done in my career but when i say that i've spoken to people like yourself that's like the highlight of your life so the fact that you're saying this ma'am it'll be very special for you please my regards in great respect to her you see she raised many issues which have come through your questions yeah yeah i guess he's still still our biggest mentor in many ways super it's great when sons look up to their mothers as mentors that's i think the biggest blessing for mothers thank you thank you ma'am wow this is a great conversation i just thank you that's right that's the magic of


just thank you that's right that's the magic of this podcast never in my wildest dreams would i have thought that someone like dr bedi has consumed that conversation that i had with my own mother i feel doctor vedi's got infinite podcasts left to give to the world and that's what i'm hoping for i hope she returns on the runway show i hope you enjoyed this episode please share it with as many professionals as you possibly can and also remember to follow us on spotify every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this one was special i hope you enjoyed it and i hope you share it as much as possible thank you for listening [Music] you


this particular podcast is centered around the concept of mbas in the modern day with koved having fast forwarded culture and fast forwarded professional requirements in the modern world i think that this is one of the most important podcasts that we've ever created in the journey of this show we're hosting pratham mithal who's the founder of masters union now masters union is an organization that helps place people in professional organizations but here's the catch now what if you don't have to go to a top business school to still earn a higher pay package than many iim pay packages than many b school pay packages in india the nature of mbas the nature of what's required in professional environments has completely changed especially after the covet 19 pandemic where culture has been fast forwarded professions have been fast forwarded and the requirements of the world have been fast-forwarded this is one of the most important episodes of the year we're hosting pratham mithal the founder of masters union a company which specializes in providing extremely high


a company which specializes in providing extremely high pay packages to the students that pass through the masters union courses very insightful conversation one of the most intelligent spunky guests we've had on the show i enjoyed the heck out of this open fun and insightful podcast i hope you enjoy it as much as i did remember guys follow the runway show on spotify every episode's available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world because we are a spotify exclusive now if you've ever considered doing an mba in your life if you're considering doing an mba in your life if any of your friends are considering doing mbas in india in order to earn more money let's talk about money let's talk about the skills required to earn that money and let's hear it from one of the leaders in the ed tech space in india pratham methal on the runway show [Music] i'm pumped about this podcast dude there's this certain pieces where i know it's gonna go up


certain pieces where i know it's gonna go up to two hours because you have that much to offer awesome okay and before i actually get into the details of who you are everything that you've seen everything that you're doing everything you've done i want to know a very simple detail which is that your current project okay masters union you're trying to get people higher pay packages than they'd get when they go to traditional colleges so that's that's a good way to put it yeah and and uh let's let's kind of just put it out there for the podcast audience first and then we'll get into your story and all your experiences and everything else awesome yeah masters union is a is a business school right and we offer courses just like an mba program you know some online programs as well and the idea is that can we get our students our graduates better pay packages than they can get elsewhere even in iams even then i am right so we when we set up ourselves uh we said that hey let's compete


up ourselves uh we said that hey let's compete with the best in the country right and if we can sort of you know match the best in the country and try surpassing them then we would have created something very beautiful right so our metric that we track for ourselves is how much are our graduates earning i know it's not all about the money i understand that but it's also a good metric to see how well we are doing right as compared to the rest of the world are you comfortable putting out some numbers uh i mean it's it's like public information now so yeah sure um so our mba students just graduated last year and the average pay package that our graduates got was approximately 29.12 lakhs right and the recruiters included bain bcg mckinsey microsoft all the tier one names that earth while otherwise would have only gone to an i am bangalore amdabad or calcutta or maybe isp right so for them to to come to us was a huge step for them as well and


us was a huge step for them as well and and for our students to make it to those brands uh was again you know life-changing for them so that was the that was the one golden number crazy crazy dude uh very unrelated question but how are you so happy dude you are the happiest guys we've think it's your energy bro it's it's your energy no there's something up with you like you're happy maybe there's something in this no but what what is this source of happiness yeah i think uh you know when you are when you're in a people's business right i mean education is something that is a very human business right we're not building some software we're not you know running these campaigns we're like literally working with students the entire time and you have to just exude this positive energy only then the students will sort of absorb that and then just you know and and happiness pursuit of happiness is something that defines everything in life i think so uh because it's a people's business


i think so uh because it's a people's business i think that's how i've just become you know my my parents are also educators and i think it's just something i get from them if you meet my parents you'll be like they're the same they're the same yeah wow dude so we pretty much did a mini podcast right outside before we started this one and i can't wait to take all that information and also put it into this particular episode but uh you mentioned something very cool about your dad especially you said that in the movie the founder which is about the mcdonald's founder uh the the the protagonist was the salesperson was very proactive so that's pretty much your dad's story starting out with the mithai kidukan then moving on to an automobile business then getting into the education space and you're the second gen like taking it forward and i'm 110 sure radio energy till now you also have that hustler sales communication energy so uh why don't you share some of that dude because i'm


don't you share some of that dude because i'm sure you weren't always this guy and it's probably been the last 10 years of post-college life that's turned you into this yeah i think um so i was i i grew up in jalandhara right which is a very small town and thereafter my parents for good of a bad sent me to a school in dehradun right and school the doon school correct and in that school we had kids from all over the country right from bangalore from delhi from gurgaon bombay right and i was the kid from the small town and so when i came in i was so underconfident right i was so insecure about life in general because these kids could speak english like flawlessly and i couldn't right they had this sense of like you know uh togetherness because they all were from big cities and you know they relate to each other i couldn't right and a lot of the times i was just like like and then i would be the one trying


like like and then i would be the one trying to sort of like like fit in right but what i realized later like as i sort of lived through that school experience was that i got very good at swimming right i did fine in like academics right so i realized that hey listen like i can also find my calling and i can also be someone who can compete with these kids right and i think after that realization that i am nobody less right i think that just stuck with me like for the rest of my life right so when i went to college i went to college in the u.s right i was very fortunate so i went to university of pennsylvania uh where the wharton school is right and there when i went again i was from us i was from india from a small town deradun right and there were kids from like new york from l.a like your beverly hills and you know your you know sons and daughters of politicians all of this stuff and then again i would


politicians all of this stuff and then again i would have felt the same way had i not had this realization earlier and when i was there i was like hey listen like i can be these guys like i don't have to feel lesser right and that confidence that you get i think it just makes you so sure of yourself that you can put out yourself in like more difficult situations and you never feel you never think twice before going into like outside of your comfort zone there's something about guys i've met who've gone to the doom school i don't know what it is there's a school in mumbai called saint mary's and there's a similar kind of vibe in them but it's something about the schooling you get at the doom school like great communication skills high levels of confidence um what's the word for it when you're like entrepreneurial uh enterprising sure you know like that kind of enterprising nature what what goes on in that school dude why is it so why is this such a


dude why is it so why is this such a different energy i don't know if i can say this for all of my friends um no i think it's the fact that you're on your own okay right so give some context about doing sure so doon school is this boarding school which is like built on a 70 acre hill in the middle of the aradon right and and people come there when they're in grade seven or grade eight and they still they grade 12 right those five years uh they are on their own right because before that they had their parents taking care of them they had their you know little bubble but when they come to dune school they are in the wild right you will get bullied you will bully people you will get bad grades you will top the class you go through such a breath of experiences right you will you will get hockey shots when you use a hockey match right what does that mean a hockey shot use your imagination okay um it's it's incredibly competitive you have houses


um it's it's incredibly competitive you have houses you have interhouse competitions right you have you you're exposed to every sport possible so in that sport you'll you lose you'll win you'll build a skill so when you go through such a sign curve in your life which you otherwise would not have in your normal life you know at home i think i think you just become very uh sure of what you have to offer to the world you find your place in the world right um and the way a good communication is just one manifestation of it right i think other manifestations are taking risks okay right i think a lot of my friends i would say that they are very attuned to like taking risks they won't think twice they'll be more spontaneous they'll be you know more sort of you know high energy right as compared to my friends who you know perhaps did not go to a boarding school do you also pick up [ __ ] about like other people you meet like do you also pick up like are


you meet like do you also pick up like are you able to read people better no so i think i think there's a very interesting concept called mirroring okay right which we're doing right now [Laughter] so you you become the other person right so if i'm talking to you i subliminally understand what um ranveer wants to hear and what kind of a person reveal wants me to be and i become that person let's pause away from this conversation what is that if you break up like if you had to scan what i am what i want you to be what what is all that according to you i think like i think you know when you met up met me outside right i i expected that you want me to be high energy you want me to be talking about certain aspects of certain things i've seen some of the videos i know what you enjoy right and and also very quickly as you were talking about like you know things in the first two three minutes i probably suddenly understood


the first two three minutes i probably suddenly understood what kind of person you are which is which is i think like uh someone who wants to sort of go deeper than layer one so there are a lot of people who talk layer one right okay what is the weather like what is this like what is that right ready to go to school you asked me where i went to school 25 minutes into our conversation most people would ask me that in the first 30 seconds right in fact in the last 60 minutes that we were having dinner you didn't ask me about what i do yeah right yeah and i was thinking yes but because we were already at layer 3 right we were talking about dopamine levels and we were talking about like why people behave a certain way and we were talking about arranged marriage and all of that stuff right and and i think i realized that if i have to talk to this guy and if i have to impress this guy i have to really go layer to layer three


guy i have to really go layer to layer three and and sort of challenge him right so i must have asked you some questions why did you do this and you asked me the same thing back right so i realized that both of us are mirroring each other um mine's an outcome of podcasting dude like what probably you got from doing school and the education you got in college like in from my age 18 to age 22 i was in a pretty average engineering college and i always felt like i was missing out on the education that my peers were getting from being abroad and i was right so that's what hurts me bro and i had to unlearn [ __ ] like in the first few years of my career you've done a very good job oh god dude um you know i mean there were some blessings of that college i found my co-founder there i found my early teammates there but uh i think when an indian kid from anywhere in india goes abroad there is this edge that


in india goes abroad there is this edge that they gain and i've heard parents say [ __ ] like yo the education abroad isn't much better than india anything but there is some kind of an edge that people gain which is why i actually want to ask you about wharton all my life my relatives don't aim for what when you're thinking of your mba go for what go for you pin what is that like i haven't gone the ido i can't go there right now because of work yeah i don't intend on give me the four years in a paragraph so and and this is i'll challenge what you said here right sure i think it's less about going to upenn or wharton or a school in the u.s i think it's about going to a zone where you're not comfortable and where you don't know people right so i grew up in jalandhar and deradon i think had i come to bombay or had i gone to bangalore for my education i think i would have had a


for my education i think i would have had a similar experience and similarly enriching experience that i had in the us because i would be thrown out of my comfort zone and i have to make friends from scratch i'll have to learn things from scratch i have to understand the culture from scratch and all those things would teach me concepts like mirroring all of the right so i think it's not about the u.s it's not about good colleges i think it's about being outside of your comfort zone however i will still talk about uh you know what it is that college in the us and top college in the us give you that perhaps other colleges don't right this is ivy league correct i really have some context on what ivy league is sure so in the us uh there are eight colleges which are the top those eight form like eight of the top ten colleges in the us right possibly in the world some of the top ones yeah i mean if you remove oxford cambridge then sure right so it's


you remove oxford cambridge then sure right so it's like harvard yale princeton pen you know four others and these colleges basically got named the ivy league because they have a sports competition that takes place every year called the ivy league this is great branding great branding right yeah think about it so halo india so that's how these eight colleges sort of build their brand and and i think what is significantly different about these eight colleges is number one that these are multi-disciplinary institutions right so my roommate was someone who was a doctor who was studying medicine right a rumor another year was someone who was um like hardcore finance right another year was someone who was a material scientist right another year was somebody who was eight years older than me had already done his phd in physics from harvard and then god spoke to him and told him listen hey listen physics is not for you can't help the world with your physics research you should development economics so he left his phd in the middle he


so he left his phd in the middle he was on a nobel laureate path he left his face in the middle came to penn uh and started doing his development economics phd right so you meet these different kind of people who ask you very interesting questions right what do you mean so when we are hanging out with friends right and friends we are comfortable with you know friends our childhood friends they will not challenge us right they know us we know them we know what floats their boat they know what floats our boat right and so the conversation we'll be having is layer one layer two conversations we'll never have deep conversations because there's nothing different about us there's nothing interesting about you that i again yeah so so when i was in a conversation with peter my friend who was from bahamas the phd student i was telling you about we met on a pool he was swimming i was swimming and we stopped in the same you know the lap right and then we started talking to each other and i


and then we started talking to each other and i didn't realize where 20 minutes went the first question he asked me oh pratham so like you know why did you leave india to come to college in the us because india does not have good colleges imagine that question would would our childhood friend ask us that question probably not right and then another one of my friends who i met right uh randy who became my business partner his question is like brother why do you want to start a company right the company that we eventually ended up starting and i was like because i want to start it he's like no no no tell me why do you want to start a company right what is your motivation because if i'm partnering with you i want to do this for life right and so he asked me like five chains of why why do you want to do this then i would answer like i want to do this because you know i want to make money like why do you want to make money what


money like why do you want to make money what is your motivation i want to make my parents proud why do you want to make your parents proud right so i think these people challenge you in different ways i think so diversity i think is what what makes these places very very effective and the challenges are what allow conversations to dive to deep layers dude honestly um side note i saw geraria yesterday dude i was at the screening i recommend that movie to everyone it's an it's one of the darkest movies i've seen and it's extremely layered extremely are you into movies yeah sure yeah what's like a crazy mind movie you've seen which is like challenged you like shatter island yeah shutter island right because there were layers yeah uh i won't say gary is in the same zone at all it's not a psychological thriller sure but it it has that same effect of questioning your own childhood or questioning your own why's your own motivations motivations also the way the


your own motivations motivations also the way the movie show you kind of feel like you're there and you put yourself in that position and ask yourself what would i do in this situation would i cheat on my partner if someone is making those kind of advances at me oh wow okay it's it's the movie starts with infinite spoiler alert everyone knows about infidelity but it goes into like this hyper dark place about uh the past and generally human relationships and money and all sorts of places it's just an experiment in human darkness and i i mean at the time of recording this the movie is not out and i sincerely hope that people receive it well but uh highly recommend it yeah but but we're speaking about those challenges but when we say we like mind-blowing movies that's basically what the movie is doing to us what is mind it's making you question the reality you knew uh that's the only way to go deeper into conversation that's the only way to go deeper into relationships


that's the only way to go deeper into relationships not just roma friendships whatever and it's the only way you can like kind of pinch out self growth from yourself dude you have to that's the logic of surrounding yourself with people who are better than you in some ways like intellectual masturbation yeah exactly but speaking more about uh what in specifically what in upenn what is the education like there dude like i mean see everyone knows what how indian teachers will teach um us in colleges it's usually okay this is what's in the textbook um you know these are the points some of the good teachers they go slightly deeper into the points but that's very rare there'll be like one or two teachers every semester correct okay now what happens in upend in wharton in ivy league colleges other professors really like top notch like do they make you question yourself do they force you to go deeper i'll be very honest yeah and and you know this is four years of me


and and you know this is four years of me studying there and then you know comparing that to my experience in india it's no different at all the teaching in an ivy league and a teaching in an indian tier two tier three college beyond a point it's no different at all wow really truly so truly are you paying all that money for your kid to go and meet other intelligent people is that exactly that's about it i think you pay for a club membership right because the content that they're giving you is no different from the content that is available on youtube that is available on coursera that is available in india in any college i was surprised they even prescribed the same books right it's no different so the parents who are forcing urban kids to get into ivy league colleges are actually doing it for their own sense of status in some forms that my kid went to this ivy league college well i i'm sure that's part of the motivation uh but the other thing is that what


the motivation uh but the other thing is that what actually does work is that when they go there the pure group that they meet i think that is what they're paying for right it's not the teachers believe me it's not the teachers it's not the curriculum it's just that you're surrounded by people who are incredibly curious right they're ambitious and they're high achieving right and they have a good sense of common sense and and and they will challenge you right that's what you're paying for you're paying for people who it's a club membership i really believe it's a club membership i'm not i'm not i'm not trying to suck on my own dick here but uh can a podcast in the long term with the right guests simulate that ivy college experience i think so i mean we're already going so deep in the conversation but yes like if if the relationship that you build with your guests you know transcends beyond this one hour two hour session and then you continue to explore those


two hour session and then you continue to explore those garages with those with those guests of yours then yes then yes what about for the listeners if they stick to like a few podcasts where you go extremely deep i mean whether the host goes extremely deep with multiple guests are you sort of getting some form of higher education according to you i think that's passive it's not active right okay when you're listening to two people talk so you can absorb it sure but you're not actively engaged in it your hypothalamus is not as it's not buzzing with activity right you know so so i think what you can do if let's say you're in a tier three city and you're stuck there for whatever reason right you cannot go to an ivy league you cannot go to bangalore you cannot go what i would suggest is meet people who are most unlike you right even if it's your house helps son or daughter right even if it's your driver even if it's your and just try to have a conversation


if it's your and just try to have a conversation with them right and try to explore some some depth with them i think i think it'll not be too different it'll not be too different like just uh make friends on on instagram like message people who you're inspired by talk to them say just 30 minutes of your time like i mean i have people who message me on instagram it's like just let's let's talk for 30 minutes right and i love that man you know what you're saying is advice i wish someone had given me when i was 21 22. if someone had just told me what you just said it would have changed a lot for me between 22 to when i started the podcast which is 26. growth would have been faster that explore depths with people uh but but coming back to these colleges is there like a one-off professor who's just like some sort of yeah talk about those one-off professors also so there was this one professor uh his name is adam grant i'm sure


professor uh his name is adam grant i'm sure you've heard of him uh very popular on youtube and instagram uh the way he used to teach uh was different right and he's a one-off professor right and every university every college every student has this one-off professor who he talks about so this is my guy what's the context on like the subject he used to teach organizational behavior okay so how organizations work right so basically how how to motivate your teams and how to make sure that you know they're behaving a certain way how to negotiate with your business partner right how to do it in a way so it's basically about leadership and how to live your life but it's called organizational behavior right so the way he used to teach us was he that the two or three things right i haven't answered this question before ever so i'm going to sort of think it out loud first is that the professor has an aura right the professor inspires you right and he asks you a question and


inspires you right and he asks you a question and you want to be the first one to answer that question right so he builds this rapport with you right where you're starting to impress right and that's a great motivator think about it miracles professor kobas impress karna [Music] so they build that aura around them that wants that makes people want to just sort of impress that's my one number two is they don't teach anything right what they will do is they will tickle you to think yourself right they will tickle you to get curious so you know in one of the classes he's like how will you uh strike a deal with someone you're doing business with in a way that you're also happy and that other person is also happy like how will you create a win-win right the he the way he will put off that question right if you put across the question in the classroom you're like hi now i want to know this answer right now i am in pursuit of the answer


right now i am in pursuit of the answer he just tickled me a little bit he never did not teach he did not preach he did not say step one a step one beast f1 cs and he will he just asked a question in a way that was inspiring me and now i want to go and find out the answer right now how will i go find out the answer i will go you know see research on youtube i will like read the book i will talk to friends i will investigate right so i think good professors will just make you curious about the subject right they will throw off some statistic and then and you'll be like whoa wow really a chassis should not have to figure this out right they'll make you uncomfortable right and then you'll want to sort of they'll jar you they'll you know if you're like a straight line they'll put you like somewhere here and then you have to figure out how to come back on that straight line i think that's what does that


on that straight line i think that's what does that make sense i mean i'm just sort of i get what i'm thinking out loud it's it's an approach that is not just reading out textbooks and instead so it's kind of an inception approach basically when you're trying to convince someone rather than telling them to do something you uh convince them that the thing that they should do they should be doing anyway it's it's it's a technique used to actually persuade people that uh rather than selling you this cup i'll say that yo dude you know i wish you had a great cup to drink coffee let me explain i have an example so there's a professor at masters union right teachers accounting and do you think accounting is one of the most boring courses ever i think most people will agree right and so this professor took it upon himself yeah i want to make accounting exciting right so what he did was he said he allotted the classes 60 people right so he allotted in groups of


classes 60 people right so he allotted in groups of six each 10 groups to each group you allotted one local business right a local business could be an uber driver it could be a java could be anybody right and what he told them is that okay now you guys figure out a way okay this uber driver has a business but he doesn't have books of accounts this dhaba is a business but he doesn't have books of accounts right this like local shop mom and pop store like karana dukan has a business not doesn't have books of accounts now whatever you have learnt right which i taught you in the first couple of hours and i gave you some videos now you guys will go and become the accountant for these small businesses and put their books in order and then you will tell me how putting the books in order actually improved their business [Music] okay now imagine the student right earlier the student was like accounting but as soon as the student realized what accounting actually did for those


the student realized what accounting actually did for those businesses right so one of the accounting classes one of the uber driver project what they found out after they did the analytics and they put the invoices all of that they realized that this uber driver actually earns more between three and six pm right because at three and six between 36 pm he's close to his like lunch place where he gets the maximum like most rewarding rides right they took out that insight from an accounting book and they told the uber driver bro listen you stay here the entire day uber driver's revenue increased like two three-fold just because they're down inside right and now the guy's like okay accounting is important i need to figure this out i need to use this in my own business or i need to use this whatever i do in the future that's the way this professor taught us as well so my next question to you is this honestly what i figured after working across industries is that if you're someone who can get


industries is that if you're someone who can get the job done without bothering your management or whoever your boss is you are a valuable part of the team and it's likely that the more you do it uh the more promotions you will get that's basically the logic of promotions and higher pay packages and make your management and your team's life easier right now you're saying that the students at masters union get higher pay packages than ime and what i feel you're basically doing is you're teaching them this logic in many ways that become useful people and the money will follow correct um what goes into creating a useful person that say you're doing better than i am and what what's happening at i am if you have context i don't have any context on what they actually teach it i i am including the subjects i have no idea what what's taught in mba colleges let me let me put it this way and i'm asking you this from the perspective that you're someone who's kind


this from the perspective that you're someone who's kind of deep diving into edtech your family is in education so you have some other perspective on youtube you know which are the most successful colleges in india iit i am no actually okay let me rephrase the question which colleges do you think give their students the best outcomes in terms of jobs right i would say the same actually it's all mbbs colleges [Music] right all mbbs colleges doctors graduate from those mbbs colleges and they all find very good jobs very high paying jobs eventually right interesting thing about medical colleges is that a medical college is always situated next to a medical hospital right and when you're being trained as a medical student you're actually working in the hospital you're taking classes in the morning but you're training in a real hospital in the evening number one number two the people who are teaching you medicine are not professors they are doctors their doctors are teaching in the morning and doing surgeries in the


teaching in the morning and doing surgeries in the evening right so what you learn in the college is extremely hands-on it's what you will be doing once you graduate right that's why our medical colleges do an amazing job right of you know making students uh employable now let's go to an engineering college or to an mba college is an mba college situated next to the industry never it's usually situated far away from the city teachers in the mba college are they people who have run companies before no they are people who are professors who have only taught their entire lives and perhaps have never worked in the industry right and that is the problem with education in the us in india wherever right that our teachers are people who have not themselves worked in the industry there are some teachers definitely who have who have that exposure and i think they teach really well much better than the others but by and large uh you know people who have not worked in the industry i i feel that they might


worked in the industry i i feel that they might not be able to teach as well this is not a generalization i don't mean any disrespect to teachers but this is what i've noticed when you bring a practitioner an md a ceo a cmo a cxo in the classroom the way he teaches what he's going to teach in fact is going to be what he's going to hire for and that's where placements become very easy for us because all our teachers are practitioners our campus is actually situated in a commercial building we share that office space with bcg with gartner with bank of america they're in the same building as us this is a great model for education in general and edtech in general yes if you can give people real world exposure they just become better students faster students let me put it this way when you when you when companies you know hire for a role they make you go through a six-month training period they are spending money to train you what was the college doing


spending money to train you what was the college doing so in fact many of our courses are the same courses that companies actually teach their new hires [Music] and that makes their placement incredibly easy for us we actually don't work very hard on placements dude what start in modern mba colleges in india like what was starting and i am abc and what's the hype yeah the i think the hype is the legacy the track record because they just got the best students and they made them better slightly better right i just want to put a disclaimer that this is not a mba this i've studied for cat myself when i was an engineering college and it was the one exam in india i've also studied for je he tests your physics maths your science skills cat tests how smart you are right and it teaches you better english it teaches you better mathematics it teaches you better logic and it teaches you better uh viewpoints on current affairs so the the people who get through cat including uh the


the the people who get through cat including uh the interview rounds they are actually like sort of a cream crowd in terms of intellect coming to what you're saying right let's say you were in a you were studying mbbs and you were never given a cadaver to do real you know studies on or you were never like allowed to see real patients you would not become nearly as good of a doctor if you did all of those things right i think that's what's happening in business schools today and i will not just talk about ims just talking business schools in general that they're teaching you all the theory and they're teaching you really well right and there are some teachers who make it very interesting all of that but they're not teaching you experientially they're not teaching you how accounting comes to life and why it's important they want they won't make you run real marketing campaigns they won't make you um you know start a business by yourselves in the college right you'll have to just


yourselves in the college right you'll have to just make those mistakes later on correct me if i'm wrong and this is the entrepreneur in me speaking my co-founders and myself when we have to deal with mbas in in business deals and this is just my experience and i'm it might be very kind of narrow sighted and i'm not speaking for all mbas but jitney mbs we have worked with we notice that sometimes often they think in boxes in terms of a campaign if they've set their mind on something or their minor certain strategy there's a sense of no obviously only this will work nothing else can work so they're not able to kind of see it from a different perspective and i'm assuming that it's the outcome of the indian education system i don't know have you noticed anything like this because i mean you you've seen like worldwide i think worldwide and especially in india we are told to believe what we are taught we are not told to question what we are taught right


not told to question what we are taught right and so that's why we have this mindset of you know this conformist mindset that okay you know this is how the teacher will say this is how the campaign is going to work so this is how it's going to work right and that's going to work for the rest of my life right and so so to to you know regularly sort of question yourself is not something that we are taught in colleges and i think that's true for the world right and super education system in general i think maybe in norway sweden in japan where the education systems are like you know really high uh in terms of outcomes maybe there it's different i haven't experienced that what's the deal there why why is it like so superior yeah i have no idea actually i haven't experienced it so i can't say but i keep hearing that norway sweden japan like their students when they're like at age 12 age 13 like they perform like much much better than their


13 like they perform like much much better than their indian american counterparts right for some reason those colleges the way they sort of make people think or they the way they sort of teach people how to think is very different from the way we are taught how to think right i'll give an example like in chinese uh you know the way they do math in their head is very different because when we say 22 plus 31 right in our minds we are doing 22 plus 31 right and that's like 50. okay in china when the way 22 is said is usher that means 2 10 2. they're not saying 22. do you see what i'm trying to say here and when they say 11 they don't say 11 they say 10 1 so when they do their mathematics it's not 22 into 11 or 22 plus 31 whatever it's actually 210 1 times 3 1. [Music] right so it's fundamentally the thing differently which basically means when they're approaching problems they break it down to the abcs of the


problems they break it down to the abcs of the problem likely because that's what they've trained their minds to do yeah uh in ancient india there used to be the subject called anvik shiki which basically is design thinking looking at something okay and asking yourself why is it this color how can i improve it why does that cup feel like this on my mouth can i design it in such a way that it'll feel better can it transfer less heat so anvik shakey is designed thinking this was taught to like every kid as their first subject in their gurukul so with their junior kg subject was and before they taught any other subject so that they create a mind uh in order to question whatever they're being taught so if you're being taught geography uh the question the the way you would look at it is not oh these are how these rocks have developed the question will be why didn't they develop in another way correct so it's i'm assuming that there you go we did it in the


assuming that there you go we did it in the past right yeah so i mean it's also i mean we are a country of like a billion people right we need education systems that work for everybody we have large classrooms we have you know it's harder for us to to do justice to those is not norways we don't have that privilege that exclusive yeah 100 right and so maybe in a gurukul system where probably one what was the student ratio in a guru i mean you have one one teacher and maybe 20 students but in saying that we live in the age of tech we live in the age where the metaverse is coming up god knows how that's going to change up scales like i remember kunal said this on this podcast that yo very soon the best teachers are going to come to the forefront because now that one to many angle will really come through sure like in terms of in a classroom what the maximum of students will address is 100 sure 200 correct um but what about with like


100 sure 200 correct um but what about with like technology it doesn't suddenly become one lakh to lag but from your that professor you spoke about yeah correct but here's the thing right the the there has been no innovation in education right now technologically no just even with technology i think there's been no innovation in education think about for a second in 11 oxford cambridge were built in 1180 right and at that time they set up this concept where there's a stage and then the students looking at the stage with the teachers speaking to them right the teacher is saying something on the board the students are taking notes it's been 1 000 years right we're still doing the same thing in 1700 800 when the printing press came in they said books are here now that the books have come the teachers are redundant why do you need teachers people can just read right did that happen no teachers became even more important and more integral because you needed somebody to explain the books right now we have videos right and


explain the books right now we have videos right and we have had videos for 60 years now we've had tvs in 60 years and that time also people thought that with books and tvs why do you need schools why do you need teachers right and now that we have youtube we are still saying why do we need teachers we have youtube we have one too many we have all of this but still we need teachers so my point is that the the the technology has slightly just changed the medium right from in person to online sure but still the way we are taught is the same with somebody telling us something i think real innovation in education will come when the fundamentals of somebody just listening to somebody changes what do you mean when education becomes more experiential right instead of me just reading a book seeing a video watching a video or watching a teacher give a lecture unless i interact with the content where i become the content where i become the subject only then will education truly transform right you cannot


subject only then will education truly transform right you cannot take the teacher out of the system that's for sure right i mean after pandemic we've done online education we all want to come back right that's because education is so much more than just consuming content it's about living the content it's about let me give you an example we watch we play games right we play games and there are some people who would play games for like six or seven hours stretch you ask those same people can they study for six or seven hours stretch probably not right it's because games are engaging you right they're sort of you know uh sort of hooking you essentially why can't education hook you it will once education becomes like a game right then it becomes fun when it becomes something that you're actively participating in not just listening to somebody and that will be the true transformation of education not video do you see that happening soon with the metaphors again i think metaverse is again just a medium right from books to tv


is again just a medium right from books to tv to youtube to metaverse unless the instructional style changes it doesn't matter what the medium is hmm are you keeping up with what's happening with neuralink a little bit but so neuralink basically elon has been which fixes all the brain problems which were thought of as unfixable earlier that's what he claims and they're starting clinical trials now apparently there's a company called syncron which has developed some technology which allows you to write text with just your thoughts and they've already done this with this one person who was paralyzed was able to tweet using just his thoughts so this is the first layer of neural the neuraling technology but what science fiction people like myself like to believe is that eventually we're going to go into a place where have you seen that dexter's laboratory episode where's that device and then he goes online correct where uh basically you put a device in your head and there's a transfer of data because what is data it's


a transfer of data because what is data it's bits right like at the end of the day as if you uh again i don't want to go into the details of what bits are but anything you type out on a computer if you type out an a on a computer or a b or anything back in zeros and ones yeah it's it's it's the back end is just zeros and ones uh which effectively means there's a tiny electronic circuit in that computer which every time it reads a one it's sending a pulse and every time it reads zero it's not sending a pulse right uh and therefore from counting the number of pulses super fast computing power is able to say oh this person press that button and this because of the number of pulses we read it as an a okay now uh because of advancements in neuroscience as well people are trying to figure out how to i'm assuming this is the technology behind neural link you're trying to map out the computer within your mind the electrical impulses you're


the computer within your mind the electrical impulses you're trying to basically read that signal exactly so when i'm thinking of a what does that mean in a sine curve exactly now if your brain can send out those thoughts and become a tweet which has already happened in 2022 correct why can't it be the other way oh yeah for sure we can program our brains out from the outside and yeah maybe that's what it is dangerous it's a whole new meaning to terrorism yeah or anything for that matter what do you what do you mean by like break down that thought i i'm just thinking like if i want to like influence you yeah i would just throw out these waves and suddenly you first of all have become educated or you know uneducated or fanatic or fascist or nasa whatever like you know yeah which is which is so we had saket modi was a cyber security expert and he was talking to me about just the concept of cyber security the way it works is a cat and mouse


security the way it works is a cat and mouse game that uh cyber security experts will make an extremely secure system hackers will learn how to hack it and then the cyber security experts have to make a deeper system correct and vice versa one step ahead obviously vice versa if uh the hackers have gone ahead then cyber security people need to chase them etc um creates a lot of crazy scenarios here but maybe the technological revolution of speaking education is this omelet do fromage device possibly i mean that'll be the ultimate right that would be the ultimate but i think before that there are some very basic things we can do okay just make our education more experiential i mean i just can't say that enough um you know which is your hospital analogy exactly the mbbs colleges are already doing that right like they don't teach you where the heart is in a body by looking at some you know diagram they actually cut open the human body they share okay and take it out and you know


they share okay and take it out and you know do it with your hands etc in automobile engineering colleges in india i don't think there's an actual automobile there the closest thing we're taught in engineering colleges is we have a subject called workshop where we're taught how to use old school machinery correct that is so sad right like you're going to an engineering school to work on a one courses workshop and people love that class by the way everything should be a workshop the engineering school should be inside a factory yeah 100 100 right like every autumnal engineering course would happen inside the maruti factory yeah so before beer buys i interned in my uh i have like my extended family's family business which is an engineering based business going that taught me so much about life one was that it could be an incredibly complex engineering problem but if you understand the fundamentals and get to it you'll be able to solve it uh two there was this person who actually ran the factory and he wasn't an


who actually ran the factory and he wasn't an engineer he was a tenth grade pass who had just taught himself engineering there you go and that's that's the that's real that's true truth of the world i learned before youtube started there was um you know just this research done right which which found out that people who are self-taught programmers are actually better programmers than programmers who have done computer science in their college yeah right because they've like they've they've sort of explored it themselves and they've made all the mistakes and they've learned from their mistakes they just didn't like you know go and see a presentation in a class so in in the companies that actually get the highest uh pay packages to masters union first of all which are the companies that have the highest pay packages and what are they looking for in those candidates yeah i think uh feel free to name drop yeah yeah let's i think there are three kinds of companies right one is companies who sell their brand name to their clients right


companies who sell their brand name to their clients right mckinsey being bcg they sell trust that if you come to us you'll get the best consulting there ever was right and consulting will teach you about the world of business in general yeah yeah so i mean this is for their clients right so for example mckinsey wants to get let's say reliance as a client and so the lines are like could you give the listener some context on what consultancy firms do oh sure of course so basically what happens is that we have these firms called consulting firms that work for large businesses like reliance like the table uh like airtel etc and they help them basically either earn more money or reduce their costs right so they can make more profit and and these consulting firms are able to give an outside perspective to these companies right these companies know their business well but sometimes on outside perspectives made them makes them rethink their fundamentals right so that's why they hire very expensive firms like consult


that's why they hire very expensive firms like consult like mckinsey bain bcg pwc you know you would have heard all of these names accenture to come in and and basically help them uh improve their efficiencies so i have a lot of friends who worked in yeah firms and they're some of my most intelligent friends just by the way uh many kind of what's it called graduates from these firms hasn't they've spent their time as consultants they become entrepreneurs eventually correct like because they've just got such a wide understanding of business different businesses yeah they basically it's kind of like a higher education you do but practically it's your hospital exactly exactly which gives them input into oh maybe these businesses will will work out if i try them um like one of my friends tells me who's working in bain he's like this is the true mba yeah yeah this is the true mba i'm working with real people real data real problems also the flip side of this is i had


problems also the flip side of this is i had like one of my closest friends in the world nira chutness he worked there and he once told me that it's great and you get to learn an incredible amount and you get professional experience and get paid for it yeah and you get paid uh and you get the top the tag on your cv oh i'm a bain uh consultant but uh it's basically you validating what your clients have already pitched as in you have to study what they have uh what they think is the right way to do business and then you add layers on to that correct so uh that that's effectively what the world of consultants is but now again going back to that first question right uh what do they look for in these highly uh chased candidates i think first is you know like very strong communication skills you can't you can't do without them because you have to present to clients essentially right and you're exuding confidence and trust that's one the second is that are these students


trust that's one the second is that are these students able to think in a structural fashion right so let's say i throw a problem at you why is congress not winning in the rest of the country other than like a few states right and you'll say oh because raha gandhi is this oh because this is this right that's layer one thing that's unstructured thinking right you're just basically shooting in the dark but then there are some people who would break down that problem okay let's talk it let's talk about it state by state let's talk about it community by community let's let's look at the numbers how these numbers have changed over the last few years right how much you know vote share they had in 2012 how much more share they had in 2015 how much that's breaking down the problem and thinking structurally i think most of these consultants consulting firms and even other companies i think they want people who can think in a structural fashion who can break down the problems in a defined way and then


break down the problems in a defined way and then go solve that because that's how the real world solves problems right so i think the first thing that that that we teach at masters union i think what a lot of other business schools try to teach is a sense of structured thinking right so communication structured thinking and i think finally is a deep sense of curiosity slash ambition right where i want to like okay now i have this problem that i can think structurally about i need to be motivated to like and i want to be curious enough to actually go deep and investigate and find the answer so they want people who don't give up easily on finding answers right so i throw a question at you yeah what makes uh you know why is there so much pollution in bombay we have sea and sea breeze and land breeze there shouldn't be no pollution right and then i've put that seed in you now are you motivated enough to like do google searches and like you know figure out the answers


google searches and like you know figure out the answers and not sleep you know sometimes it happens we can't sleep quick question comes in our mind we have to find the answer do you have that in you right to be able to go down deep investigate i think i think these are the few things that that most high impact roles uh high impact companies are looking for in their high impact roles right so for example we had uh microsoft come in higher right and they want uh product managers right and and the way they do their uh interviews exactly this right they'll give you a problem they're like okay we want um the conversion rate in our microsoft teams product to increase from six percent to twenty percent cool um and then they'll just see how you think all right is it structured right did you ask questions to them asking for more data right all of those things are basically that's what mba teaches you structured thinking i think so there's a lot of kids watching this till this point placing themselves in


watching this till this point placing themselves in those job interviews and asking you [Music] what is the x factor required beyond what you've already said hmm yeah i think uh you know i i might be repeating myself here a little bit right but i think curiosity if you have a passion to find answers right if you like just don't give up easily on questions right and if you ever have felt yourself staying up at night thinking deeply about something could be anything could be like asking a girl out right and and you'll get rejected but you ask again get rejected but you ask again but every time you ask you learn something from your past experience and grow right you don't give up easily i think if you have that x factor like giving up is not an option like no is not an option right till the time you're completely like okay fine now it's like i think i think if you have that then all these other things will just come naturally right because if you feel like okay


just come naturally right because if you feel like okay i'll give you an example you know last year when we started the college we told ourselves we have to beat i am ahmedabad and isb we just told ourselves the entire team it was very very clear goal that i gave to the team that we have to beat it now let's figure out a way to do it right and everyone had full clarity of thought now we here we are 30 very intelligent people have very like have a shared common goal and they're going at it right and we're not going to give up so first obviously everyone was like when you went to these companies and you said hey you should come recruit from masters union they're like who the hell are you we are going to these colleges and we are very happy right and then we have to like give them no no you should still come you know why this is this they still said no then we're like okay why don't you just take some interns they're like still


don't you just take some interns they're like still no like i don't take some freelancers our students just take them as freelancers just see how they are they're like no at least can you come for dinner just come for dinner just talk to the students that's all i'm asking you maybe you'll be impressed right so that one person opened up the doors like okay fine i'll come we'll adjust the students for like 30 minutes he comes he was very impressed by some of the questions that students asked and we had prepped the students properly you know just asked good questions and he's like okay fine i'll interview one kid i'll give it to you like right but that kid did well right and we had worked very hard on that kid and and then from there sort of you know you you fight every challenge like one after the other but we never just gave up right so if you have this like sense of clarity of goal and this hunger that i have to get to that goal i think


that i have to get to that goal i think that's enough all the problems will you know solve themselves that's the planet tech you know like in terms of every every business and every industry has its play can you do this for example the agency business at speed can you deliver fast and good quality fast everyone delivers good quality can you do it faster than the rest in edtech i feel the players can you place me after i sign up for your edtech course correct uh in education in general education in general will you give how do you do good yeah what's your outcome of this education okay keeping that in mind is the ed tech space still booming is the education space still booming in india like because i know in this i'm not at the start dynamic probably a couple of years prior to the pandemic there was this phase where edtech was the industry and then it just really took off during the pandemic yeah what's up in that space now i think i think education is always booming right it's


think i think education is always booming right it's like healthcare it's always going to be booming right you'll have certain sports because of which it'll boom a little bit more than everything else and that's how everyone will talk about it but in the larger scheme of things like last year's i mean it was in the conversation because some companies raised some money and some companies got sold and right that's why it's on the news right but if you think about it we spend what i think some 200 billion in education and so even if some company raised 1 billion two billion that's a one percent blip right so i think education is always booming in india right now the gross enrollment ratio that means the ratio of number of people who graduate class 12 and going to college is only 30 so 70 stop after class right so that 70 is basically an open market right and every year we are adding one or two percent right we're adding one or two percent and on the back on the backs of these 70


and on the back on the backs of these 70 people who are yet to be enrolled in colleges obviously at tech will flourish okay that's number one metric and i'll give another metric there are only 250 000 2.5 black dialogue phds in india who are teaching you know how many students they are in india how many 36 million 3.6 crores that means we have one phd for 130 students 36 million is 3.6 crores okay right okay you're correct right so almost two two and a half flat teachers for three point six crore students that's one is to 150 car ratio right and our ugc our aict they all declare the fact that you cannot teach unless you are a phd right so what that basically means is that we are learning in a ratio one is to 150. [Music] right when the recommended ratio in gurukul goes how much one is to ten right or in the u.s it's also like minus two ten minus two twelve so that's flawed obviously that's why


twelve so that's flawed obviously that's why edtech will have to come in and and solve for that regional edtech of course yeah as in those seventy percent kids who aren't kind of taking up to a standard kebab education they would prefer to be taught in tamil or punjabi or whatever assamese correct um i i probably see regional edtech as the next big wave yeah so the thing is that it's already happening right there are these like local universities that teach in vernacular right we don't hear about it because they don't raise 200 million dollars from like large vcs right but they exist right and so that content is there uh when edtech will sort of come there it will also have its light under the sun the problem is that they might not be able to pay as much as the urban english student you know so when you know that for the edtech companies they're like let's target the low hanging fruit first you know these kids who can pay us and then eventually we'll


kids who can pay us and then eventually we'll go after you know even like a baiju's large company it targets like rich people could you could you talk a little bit about baiju's you're from the education space talk about it freely whatever you want to say about it what is the deal with it why is there so called negative pr around it what's the scene i i i sympathize with the founders of values i think they're doing a great job right they're making educational content accessible and and you know they're not forcing you to buy it i understand why some people might feel that you know they're coercing you into buying that and you know they're using these like sales tactics uh and i'm sure certain percentage of people are affected or impacted by it negatively but i think by and large uh people buy into it because they feel there's a need because our stool our schools don't do justice to certain subjects not all our teachers are as good as our students deserve right so so when


as good as our students deserve right so so when baijus comes with their product uh i think it's doing a big service um you know when every when some company is growing so fast obviously you'll have some detractors right you'll have some naysayers right and sometimes they'll be in the media and sometimes their narrative you know will take over but i think by and large they're well-intentioned people right and doing a good job making very good content that students genuinely enjoy of course there'll be five percent people who don't enjoy right and i think they just speak a little bit more loudly than 95 percent who do enjoy right um so you know think about it yeah they they have you know let's say you go to a classroom right and it's an atm class sometimes you slept late at night right you were not paying attention in that adm class so you did not understand the concepts taught in that atm class that basically means that you've lost the opportunity to learn that


means that you've lost the opportunity to learn that concept but because of by jews or khan academy or youtube or any of these things i think you're given a second chance so i think that's incredibly you know helpful now insofar as their selling tactics go i think every company uses selling tactics that can be questioned i think lic i mean they just put so much fear into you that you have to purchase lic but nobody questions them right they say oh like you know my husband will die i have to buy i have insurance like come on yeah that's also no way of selling a product right cigarettes right no i mean people do question it sure yeah but i think by jews gets questioned too much yeah it's that whole thing about okay whatever industry or person or group of people are on top what's the [ __ ] in the armor and you everyone enjoys seeing the champion fall and also yeah when you think about youtube right like or when you're on media the negative news will always


or when you're on media the negative news will always get more clicks truth about iits right that will get so many so many more views than no iit like you know publish this research report that might change animal husbandry industry forever nobody's gonna click on that truth about iit yeah it's two sides fear darkness and uh this dark curiosity is an angle even we use for thumbnails dude and it's something we figured over time but the success ratio was so much uh more kind of important than oh you know i'm just packaging this normal piece of content as dark or fearful uh that we just kind of went ahead with it it's a good conversation about education and the education system and uh dude i actually i want to i want to talk to the entrepreneur in you and i feel that for you're an extremely entrepreneurial dude and what i mean by that is not that oh you're business oriented i feel that um entrepreneurial mindsets are all about going to the bottom of things breaking down


all about going to the bottom of things breaking down the abc's uh accumulating new experiences and if you can you can talk to a true entrepreneur about any subject and they'll kind of approach it in the same way outside and then journey in a friend of mine farin emma do you know she's she's an instagram uh creator does a lot of tech stuff um she told me this thing and this is while i was dating this one gorgeous girl okay who was from the media industry like just like mad beautiful that girl was so gorgeous i can't explain but somewhere over the course of dating her over three to six months i realized looks isn't everything and i wasn't able to have the conversation with her that basically you and me had outside i get it so what i mean by that is i wasn't able to go deep in a conversation with her once randomly i was talking to farina about some work stuff and she asked me what's up in your love life i said that yeah there's


up in your love life i said that yeah there's this girl who's just like the best looking girl i've met in my life but i don't see it going anywhere because i'm not able to connect with a conversational level so farian said that dude you're extremely entrepreneurial she didn't say you're an entrepreneur she said you're entrepreneurial uh the kind of conversations you just require as a person you have to have someone who is entrepreneurial uh near you at all times you won't be able to date people or not entrepreneurial and you won't be able to have friends yeah like long-term friendships with people who are not entrepreneurial and you're like one of the most entrepreneurial minds i've come across i also ended up breaking up with that girl i'm glad i i love the way you do like she was like so gorgeous dude she was she was mad goddess she was she was one of those girls where you know if she's at a party the entire party would look and


at a party the entire party would look and ask everyone who's that guy i hope she's not watching this sorry if you're watching this but just there was a disconnect because from a different kind of industry i'm from a different kind of industry and uh and he was also clean-hearted everything was there but i wasn't able to have conversations um so now you're compensating she was clean-hearted [Laughter] my point my point is uh you know that one negative comment [Laughter] i i enjoy the part of the conversation outside as well uh what is this whole entrepreneurial spirit thing for you because i feel it's kind of been invoked on people because of shark tank india yeah so uh it's shakti india has been a [ __ ] amazing curveball dude because entrepreneurs weren't given that much importance and then suddenly now everyone gives a [ __ ] about entrepreneurship in this country it's exciting like people are recommending that we bring on entrepreneurs on the show we had a whole


on entrepreneurs on the show we had a whole phase in 2020 we brought on entrepreneurs and people are like so boring it's too businessy get other people say oh where's the entrepreneurs yeah and i'm just like thank you shark tank india i know right it's it's amazing what it's done it's genuinely the best conversations true i wish i could bring on entrepreneurs for every episode let me give an example i think this is um you know punjab has a population of i think two crores right or let's say nagpur has a population about like 80 lakhs 60 lakhs right you know what's the population of israel i think 40 lakhs okay and you know how many companies get founded in israel every year like [ __ ] tons i think like they raise as much money as like i mean at least until two years ago like as the entire country of india those 40 lakhs people so obviously they are very entrepreneurial so the question obviously is why are they


entrepreneurial so the question obviously is why are they so entrepreneurial right why are there like so many companies coming out of this one country or 40 lakh people as there are from like entire like continents right like in the comparison of australia or something right and the reason for that is that those people jews essentially and israelis they have grown up with missiles falling all around them they were always under attack right and they've always moved from you know from germany to israel like from all over you know so they've always been traveling and they've been sort of under uh you know so much stress and so for them starting a business is no risk because they've always been at the edge of the life the relationship with the risk is different it's a relationship it's like so comfort they're quite comfortable with risk right and so that's when just 40 50 lakh people you have such amazing you know tech companies get founded right amazing agri-tech companies get founded i think it's because they just like


get founded i think it's because they just like live and even in india for that matter right india used to get attacked always from the northwest frontier right that's punjab and if you see like in the you know maybe six six seven decades ago punjab was the most entrepreneurial state right it's so so i think there's something as i think you use a very good word which is relationship with risk i think that does define an entrepreneurial mindset right if you've had a very comfortable life all throughout if you have not i feel like people who change schools a lot they are very entrepreneurial because they have to always like adjust themselves they always have to like you know make new friends and they always have to be like active yeah active dude when the pandemic had broken out it actually it's pointed farin only about like just generally it was the same conversation where she convinced me to break up with that but another aspect of that conversation was uh i asked her because she's extremely


conversation was uh i asked her because she's extremely connected in the startup india network so i asked her what's the general scene with startups across she said that you'd assume that people are feeling sad because business owners have pressure everyone's got a boner right now because entrepreneurs love challenges like the real entrepreneurial spirits want that challenge to be thrown at them and they'll tackle it in their own way and therefore make the business work also i think he said that the point of becoming smart eventually is to execute it in the real world and showcase it as business otherwise you're just you're a what's it called uh keyboard warrior whatever but that's the point of intellect for for many people me for some people it's like oh i just want to pass on the knowledge or i just enjoy like the the process of accumulating knowledge but for most human beings there is a need to do something with that knowledge and i just feel shark tank india has nudged people along those lines that okay


india has nudged people along those lines that okay if you thought business is risky by the way there's this concept of investors i'm sure there's a lot of people who didn't know about the concept of raising money giving off you a bit of your equity for that money again keeping that in mind i've i don't watch much shark tank international i've not even seen one episode of shark tank india i asked an entrepreneur friend of mine i used to say what do you think of it and he was telling my team that it's incredible for culture it's an incredible show but usually businesses don't give away fifty percent of their equity yeah yeah it's all right let's draw dramatize a little bit have you have you watched the show yeah what do you think of it i think i think i think so like if you want to start a tech business like if you're like a bangalore dude you want to start a tech business or you know like you know you're an engineer


or you know like you know you're an engineer don't take a lot of guidance from shark tank right because i think certain as you mentioned nobody gives a 50 of their business you know like the value the way the valuations work you know that's not how real world actually functions in terms of fundraising or valuations right however do watch it for the spirit right the spirit of like when you look at those people right and the way they pitch there is so much emotion in that picture is so much like zeal and enthusiasm in that pitch watch it for that right you you'll be able to spot an entrepreneur if you watch shark tank enough right you'll also be able to understand how investors think right so for example one of the investors she always says that i want more you know so like she's like okay i'll give you ten percent who is this uh i forget the name the m the mq pharmaceuticals queen yeah yeah uh i think right so what she always tells is like you know


right so what she always tells is like you know let's she says okay i'll give you you know 30 lakhs for 10 and the guy's like no no man 30 likes for five percent she's like no don't you want me to be invested in your business so that i go to any length to help you right and so now suddenly we have understood how an investor thinks so when you tomorrow go to you know investor you'll know already how they think right so you understand the spirit you understand the thought process but but but don't watch it for the mechanics of how fundraising works and how bit you know all these things work yeah no in in saying that i i'm completely on the same page as you uh but we needed some cultural event to spark off that in middle class india and in in the interiors of the country but there's so many families watching the show together it's going it was so difficult for me to convince my parents i want to do business


me to convince my parents i want to do business in life like my dad just called me into his cabin one day in my final year of engineering told me you're going to do an mba in finance and i'm setting up your path to be able to correct it in in in the 40s and 50s the indian media and the bollywood industry created heroes out of civil servants military leaders right 70s 80s you know it became bankers and all of these right and now finally the entrepreneurs becoming the hero right and that's why i think more parents are going to allow hopefully in the future their kids to experiment with entrepreneurship i think and shark tank has really done a very good job of making the entrepreneur the hero the investors the supporting actors you know the supporting heroes right i think it's um it's very exciting america's had that culture for a while which is also why you see so much more personal branding there so much more business and so much more risk taking that and


more business and so much more risk taking that and i'm assuming that israel does have some sort of a trickle-down culture from all the jews living in america possibly that there has to be some element i think it's also another thing which is that all of the people in israel have to do military service right so i think that exposed them to even more risk right so it's possibly that what's your vibe about where you want to take your entrepreneurial career dude yeah i think i get a high when um students who have studied in in masters union you know get the outcome that they truly deserve and they want i think that high is is in is incredible right it's it's it's the best high one can ever experience and i just want to experience this forever right i'm gonna i'm gonna phrase something terribly yeah and then tell you what the phrase is but what about you know what about your penis yeah about why are you doing it for the man inside you interesting okay i think


it for the man inside you interesting okay i think like we get happiness from different things right and and i think you have different phases in life and so there's a phase in life where you get happiness from you know impressing girls that everyone goes through that right and then there's a time in your life where you get happiness from earning money right there's a time in your life and you get happiness from working out and building like a strong body there's time in your life when you get happiness when you know you have a child and when you're nurturing for that child and then eventually when you're 56 you'll have a time in your life when you get joy and happiness by giving your money away right philanthropy et cetera right so everyone has different phases so right now in a phase where you know i'm getting a lot of happiness by helping students you know really achieve their goals right uh i think maybe in my previous like few years of life i think definitely the penis


few years of life i think definitely the penis was at the forefront at the forefront and i've done like you know stuff there for sure um every guy's got to go through that wall man correct correct and i think and then and you should wait for that face to get over before you commit to a woman or to a man right 100 don't don't don't think with your penis yeah 100 but also okay speaking about just bodies and minds and development in general open water swimming okay i know this is a extreme gear it's cool but this is a question i want to ask you since this podcast began in fact when you told me outside about open water swimming dude i was like i need to hear this yeah because even with entrepreneurs you usually hear the same narratives and then there's some key points which are [ __ ] weirdly different and that was your [ __ ] weirdly different and yeah which is also what i recommend listeners of the podcast who listen to this point


recommend listeners of the podcast who listen to this point to think about that what is your i won't call it x factor because that's more like kind of you know uh skill set based i'd say what is this weird angle in your life what's the weirdness in here what's the view i find it i find it cool yeah but really strange that you like open water swimming dude and what is open water yeah yeah i mean swimming in general and open water swimming is just swimming in the sea in the salty sea right you've had experiences though yeah of course very interesting experiences but but at the core what people call meditation or for some what is meditation for me it's swimming right i know you are into meditation a lot right it's it's incredible and and for me when i'm swimming i'm in a zone right uh when i started swimming it was i was in a competitive zone right i was tracking who's in front of me who's behind me what is my timing all of


who's behind me what is my timing all of that right eventually swimming just started giving me this bliss which i cannot experience like in normal life right for you when you see me swimming you might see that's 10 minutes 20 minutes for me there is no sense of time it's like a time machine essentially right and i feel like some of the best ideas some of the best campaigns some of the best thoughts i've had some of the best decisions i've taken in my life have been when i was swimming because at that moment i'm weightless i'm lifeless i'm in the space right and and i think uh many entrepreneurs are very entrepreneurially minded people have this sense of have something where they experience life without um as if life has no other variables right it's just you and your consciousness can i give you the neuroscience on this please so we've we had neuroscientists on the show and i spoke to them about meditation which is my my swimming my activity they one of them called


my my swimming my activity they one of them called dr balan jalal he compared um meditation to sort of kind of what happens in dreams so imagine that all your all your sensory activities in the day this conversation the problem you're solving on your phone right now your conversations with your girl whatever okay that's data and your data is getting processed by the computer inside your skull okay but it gets processed by the logical part of that computer imagine that there's this other emotional part of the computer which only gets turned on when you're in your state of flow which is when you're doing a creative activity when possibly you're on a state of flow in a physical activity when you're meditating or when you're dreaming so the same data gets transferred and it's kind of like a second person inside you that's seeing the same data consultant in your head but in an emotional way i'd probably call it like you know they say everyone has masculine energy and feminine energy the masculine energy part


energy and feminine energy the masculine energy part is everyone's logical mind which is then women as well so it goes to your feminine energy part you're able to spend after my swimming are from venus yeah makes sense i get it and and that's why sometimes you get solutions in your dreams or um you know you're just amazing when you wake up you you look at problems differently right because the data has been processed and then it comes back to the logical part and you can make better sense of it that's why i sleep over an idea yeah that's where it comes from probably right okay got it so i mean just to paraphrase that what you're trying to say is that if i'm facing if i'm not able to solve a problem at night right somebody's in the ria math problem your business problem sleep over it your emotional side will get activated we'll look at that problem differently right in the morning you'll come you know wake up fresh and look at that problem very differently


up fresh and look at that problem very differently from the emotional angle as well and then find a creative solution yeah right that the other ways could i've swam in my life as well and i feel the same about pools in general yeah there was a long phase where now nowadays it's football for my cardio which is also the same dude yeah of course yeah but swimming used to do that for me as well it used to help problem solve suddenly couldn't make sense of it have you ever noticed like when singers are singing sometimes they just go in that flow right where they shut their eyes and they're just singing they have no idea what's happening around them like ac dc right or like led zeppelin like when there was they're just into it i think i think that's yeah isn't it i think that's similar to that yeah yeah meditating have you seen the movie sold yeah or do you watch it the whole movie is based on flow it's a pixar movie and it's the best


flow it's a pixar movie and it's the best it's it's genuinely become my all-time favorite movie i've watched it again got it and the second time i watched it i was just asking myself is this my all-time favorite movie and it was a yes wow it used to be forrest gump and this one's going ahead awesome it's a deep ass [ __ ] movie and it it basically visually shows a lot of the stuff i've read in spiritual books and it's it's based around flow the more flow you are in your life the easier your life will be because you are living a more spiritual life and your work if it can get done in that flow nothing like for sure um but speaking about swimming yeah uh what about your open water swimming dude i'm i'm you have you ever been in danger um no not really i mean nothing that actually happened at night no i haven't okay so what's open water swimming like so open basically what happens is that in a


so open basically what happens is that in a pool it's a very controlled environment right so there is no underwater current in a pool right or even there's no there's not even a current on the there's no waves right so you're not flowing against anything in open water swimming is essentially always a loop it's a lap so there'll be times when you are swimming with the flow of the water and there'll be times when you're swimming against the flow of the water right and that is a completely different sport than swimming okay all right and and it's it's like a game it's like a game so you have to figure out when the flow is in like your favor then you have to ride the wave right when you're going against the wave then you have to swim slightly under the water so that the waves you know go over you right uh the water temperature in open water actually changes quite a bit every 10 meters 20 meters right it's not it's not as consistent right it depends on


not it's not as consistent right it depends on what floor and fauna there is you know all that stuff so when these temperature changes happen you have to figure out how to manage it on your body because for one loop it's all right but if you're on the 22nd lap loop it's going to be a big problem because your body will get confused you know what temperature to maintain what not to maintain so you have to mentally be aware of where your body is right and stop uh you know or change your pace and do all of those things so it's very scientific there's open water swimming and it is the highest level of concentration you can ever have because if you don't do it properly you will you your body will give up right and you can die and you can die right i mean generally there's a lot of like medic around you so yeah you probably but but and also most open water swimming is like kilometers long it's not like 100 meter 200 meter like swim it's usually like


100 meter 200 meter like swim it's usually like 1.5 km or 5 km so is that is the joy of it in the focus and concentration see to be very honest when i started it was because like i i felt like i had a uh you know like i wanted to maintain my body and i hated to like lift right so i was like i'm gonna just swim and that's gonna help me like keep myself in shape right and when i you know when i got in shape i wanted to show it off right so swimming became a great way to you know you just what you spoke about earlier gotcha got it right but but i think but as i was doing it i realized the spiritual angle you know i'm i'm sort of i've never used the word spiritual angle when it comes to swimming but or the meditation angle or the that's that's my energy but but but now um it's it's not about water and it's not about the stroke it's not about temperature changes


not about the stroke it's not about temperature changes now it's just about being in the moment right it's it's just about mindfulness mindfulness that's the right word there is an angle on mindfulness like for basic they say mindfulness is either focusing on your breath a mantra or an activity again the neuroscience of it is that uh it triggers a certain part of your brain which is uh linked again to the emotional side it's the same being in a state of flow uh but yeah mr mittal there's like there's like 10 podcasts in you man yeah like you're a you're a born podcaster that's what i'll say no no i think i think you also ask questions very interestingly so like it makes you think okay i'm glad right and and i'm glad you didn't ask me like okay like what's happening in jalandhar so i think i think it's also the art of asking the right question what would you like not to be asked uh that's a great and i think like you know