the hospitality business you know for me the customer was always right opening a door for you gave me pleasure because I wanted you to come back you were drunk and you abused me I would take it because my domain was only that area I had no social media to Market I didn't have marketing a budget to Market because there was none that business couldn't afford it I wanted you to come back how would you come back it's only when you went home and got up in the morning and I said what did I tell Sunil yeah not right not right you came back to me you bought more families and friends to me when the world was working I was serving I used to meet Mana at four o'clock in the morning on Christmas and New Year but she didn't once complain how did you know she's the one because I mean of course I fell in love with her the minute I saw her and then Buddha and everything and I used to be called the Gunda because I used to have a


be called the Gunda because I used to have a bike long hair that physique and women around me all the time friends but you know how it is how what the impression is when it goes out uh and then the minute she started we met you know everything about her seemed so caring so loving uh one year two years three years four years nine years and my parents kept saying no uh then because her parents loved me from day one you know we got along like a house on fire her mom and me were a riot together and uh so even when I told her I don't know why she says don't worry don't worry as long as they are comfortable we'll be comfortable and I told my parents if I marry there will be only this girl or there's nobody else I don't want to destroy two lives you know it's unfair of you pushing me into another relationship because it won't work Mom and here so I left it at that but I will do exactly what you


it at that but I will do exactly what you all tell me I want the woman who comes into my house and my life to be the daughter not the daughter-in-law of the house and I think that worked so okay you know when someone's willing to sacrifice everything for you how uh how do you not know that this is the woman for you you know you're a blessed guy yeah absolutely how many boundaries can I break with you here any anything okay absolutely does it bless you often people did that whole every fun thing no it doesn't it doesn't uh because you know uh it talks about you having a having a particular style and what has happened is uh it began with mimicry and then it's gone into caricature and then if you see eventually they disappear within three months and four months they don't have their own identity so I pity some of them who've Gone Gone overboard and messed it up and it's how you take it yeah it doesn't matter to me


how you take it yeah it doesn't matter to me it doesn't matter to me we've seen uh I've seen I've seen far more degrading stuff that has happened to you uh as as compared to even this you know like in the beginning like I said one of the topmost critics was after my ass when he kept calling me wooden that I didn't know this I looked like that I had this problem that problem the question I when I look back and I laughed today is the day his film released he didn't have an audience he didn't his film probably didn't even make a hundred bucks at the box office whereas we were at Peak but uh you know Hindi Cinemas at its peak so I think he got his answer to everything that he did to everybody you know um speaking on Hindi Cinema so what's the best and worst aspect of the Hindi film industry according to you after all these years what have you found out let me also tell you that lots of people have come


me also tell you that lots of people have come on this one given extremely diplomatic answers no a lot of adulation a lot of love uh and today's time of social media no privacy it destroys your life uh one sentence edited in 15 different ways put out in 15 different ways and it's destroyed our lives you know it's made it impossible it's I'm I'm scared to talk uh if there is an issue you know they're forcing you to shut your mouth up and and and take the route that they want you to take the media wants you to take uh which is unfair you know and I'm an actor I will talk about subjects that that I'm comfortable talking about religion for me is it's unity in diversity for me not anything else I don't believe in any religion I love it all I respect it all I would take the best of everything and if there's a certain religion that says do do this in this particular way I won't I might not want to go with


way I won't I might not want to go with it you know so it's it's it's a different personality you said you use the word diplomatic because we've been forced to be diplomatic yeah you know you're hammering me otherwise for something that I'm not done and who's hammering me somebody I don't even know on Twitter or on Facebook wherever you know and abusing me my family calling my daughter a calling my mother for what that hurts because I come from from the old school you know for me the Buddhist rastra also works a hell of a lot like the the shastra works as much as the Buddhism you know I'm a Shetty boy I would never keep quiet yeah and today they'd say oh you know he's using his his his strength to do this and showing of not realizing how much the other individual has probably damaged me and hurt me um I hear you like the only point where I get extremely irritated with online chattel is when your family is brought


with online chattel is when your family is brought up when your loved ones are brought to you because that honestly is any man's weakest point you shouldn't go there yeah um okay I'm not trying to cross a line with you at all uh and I'm asking you this because I feel while speaking to you over the last half an hour you've given me a lot of wisdom nuggets what wisdom nuggets have you given KL through this phase that he's had nothing that is bat will talk and it's talking I know cricket and that's the only thing I wanted to do play probably for the country so I know a good one from a bad one you know uh my only advice to him always has been don't lose your confidence because of anything else I know my child I mean for me he's a son he's not my son-in-law yeah he's technically perfect and when you're a technically good batsman or technically good at what you do like you are at what you do people will


do like you are at what you do people will come and go but they will not be able to take your place because you've got your own you know and that is what a kale is all about you ask him to keep he keeps you ask him to bat one he bats you ask him to open he does that is what a team man is he's not an individual if he was an individual he would a a particular place you know it's like Surya today three zeros and you have people running him down that kid is good it's it's the pressure that is getting to these kids and that's the only thing you know we spared Sportsmen at one time because they represented the country we love them for everything for me I'm a sports fan for me my Sunil gawaska Sachin tendulkara Gods you can say what you want you won't change my impression or my my belief and feelings about them things have changed today what was the first impression of KL when you saw him and I I


of KL when you saw him and I I back what you're saying because I'm a cricket nerd fan just like yourself I think the nerd fans know no no absolutely yeah you know the difference between the men and the boy yeah exactly but you know when uh when Arthur told you about KL I remember actually in an interview she said that they were afraid to tell Anna so you know but it was it was a reverse I think uh I was a huge fan I am still a huge fan of KL one he came from Mangalore he came from a small town where I come from three kilometers away from where I was born where there are no grounds so getting someone getting to play for the country uh with no infrastructure is what struggle is all about that's what talent is all about or dhoni coming from Iran she is like whoa you know and what has that done to a cricket India kids infrastructure money is unbelievable for these kids so I always appreciated him and I think it


so I always appreciated him and I think it took less than a second when Thea told me because I met Raul myself and told him that my kids are huge fans of yours I never said that you know and today people tell me probably you manifested uh you know someone like that in my in your life but uh okay I I didn't know him then but uh you know today knowing that child completely I feel Thea is blessed you know there were times when uh when that whole interview bit of his and how they came uh he didn't say anything wrong no not did not hardik got probably carried away but when you have an anchor who's shoving it down your throat uh what do you do you know so it's the format of the show yeah you get get kids excited and they say stuff and then Bollywood is uh being banned so I think we all you as an anchor me as a guest all need to be responsible yeah because you ask me a question I feel I can't


because you ask me a question I feel I can't answer I shouldn't feel doesn't mean I'm I'm inferior to anybody um so when that happens is when things go wrong yeah and it should never go wrong you should have the guts to say bad things as they are and as they should be what do people not understand about KL as a guy that uh extremely committed uh one of the softest uh uh human beings you will come across you know probably they haven't seen that I forget kale I'm not talking about KL I'm talking about any Sportsman any athlete uh give them their space because they all grow you know situations uh what you're going through at that time you know all that is very very important to know who knows what Surya is going through yeah you know a boy who used to come in with that kind of confidence suddenly you're you're and trust me he will kill in this IPL and going forward so it's always that phase all of us have that yeah you


always that phase all of us have that yeah you know and for me as an actor failure meant I kept think I I kept choosing the wrong Scripts so it's that phase sometimes where anything you do is not working because sometimes there's higher Powers at Play yes and you have to always remember that you know it's his will as to yeah okay until this point in the conversation I've just been digging into your mind uh and I want to dig a little bit deeper so on the show from this episode onwards we're doing a segment called keep it casual okay so are you ready for audio presents keep it casual so absolutely all right so these are some uh questions with which have been penned on with an intention of kind of getting into your head so you you shouldn't think too long just say whatever's at the top of your head okay but then I might ask you a few whys uh in order to just understand Sunil shetty's mind better all right are you ready sir absolutely okay so


all right are you ready sir absolutely okay so as you presents keep it casual question number one they say that a name holds power other than Sunil what would you like your name to be always Sunil okay any other name at all no because of my obsession for uh I was glad because my father's Obsession for Sunil gavaskar and my obsession too you're named after with that in mind wow you know so yeah I want to name my kid Cristiano but anyway you should uh maybe I might uh okay question number two what object would you like to be buried or burned with you during your funeral Sandalwood why Mr Roma it's something about Aroma and something about peace it's something about uh just works like magic for me do you ever think about your own death often okay we're gonna talk about this poster segment question number three at what age did you start caring about style and why ah I think early teens and that's why I had my brand Mischief because we dared to


I had my brand Mischief because we dared to be different uh and I I think that continues even today you know I I like to dress well and I mean I like to dress casual comfortable but at the same time uh be there okay uh number four everyone's got a weird thing about themselves what's your weird thing ah laziest really yeah I don't want to move on a Sunday I refuse to move I probably shower just before I go to bed I'm so damn lazy I don't want to do anything and everybody believes I have that energy and you know everything is nice and I like to do I don't want to do anything yeah absolutely but I have to be spoiled I'd have Mana feed me I'd have my mother feed me I won't do anything life you know so okay uh number five one thing you hate about modern society social media okay if you could only show your child one film of yours which film would it be border that's a whole conversation that we're going


be border that's a whole conversation that we're going to have after this so okay your favorite film of all time production why I had everything it amazing friendship romance performances unreal of course there are a lot of other films but padosan came to mind because I'm a big buff comedy buff and you know I like humor and uh and and and romance and everything moving together very very uh smoothly okay uh what did Heroes of the past have that Heroes of the present don't swag 90 Swag yeah absolutely what the heroes of the present have that Heroes of the past didn't lots of money really yeah real yeah yeah scale is different I mean scale is different we made probably 10 lakhs 20 lakhs 50 lakhs 40 lakhs till our Peak you had to budget and all like no I I even in from a fee perspective you have one film and these kids are getting 10 crores 20 grows 30 Euros I mean it's time I'm not complaining it's like an ex cricketer and


not complaining it's like an ex cricketer and a cricketer today so if half of them are crying out there at uh uh you know in the in that com box it's because of that okay okay [Music] uh it's a theme on the show which is why the next question is what is a paranormal subject that interests you that interests me spirit okay because you're a Shetty that's that's home for us that happens every uh every year yeah hundreds of times I've grown up witnessing that and believing it uh and believing that your cool Devi and the House of Spirits is what what controls you and makes you you know so they always say when we go back home manage your cool manage the House of Spirits we have Spirit homes in home at home at the farm you know and I probably 11 12 13 14 of April I'm there for my pujas I don't miss that for the world and not only me every member of the family one member of every family connected the whole


the family one member of every family connected the whole family tree will be there and they better be there you're giving me so many tangents to speak to you about after this round but anyway uh I've witnessed one of those uh outside Mumbai I think you know the temple I'm talking about uh sorry light went over one so we can continue sorry so just give it yeah at the moment I spoke about it and this happens yeah see see yeah nobody see you know what everybody has always laughed when I've said yes nag and uh spirit this was happening yes anyway never mind if you're a Believer you're a Believer we're not going to cut this out of the podcast yeah these are the moments and make the show um and that's the difference between television and digital yeah okay they say that shoes say a lot about a person what's your favorite pair of shoes ever Harley Davidson shoes boots that represents your personality yeah it always did I always did Hardy


personality yeah it always did I always did Hardy Shetty gentlemen it was about Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds and about Robert Redford so I hear you I can hear that rock guitar playing in my head okay favorite perfume you've ever owned and why the only perfume that I've even today I might add a little wood to it because I'm obsessed with but otherwise it's Polo or ramus polo green bottle and the old Aramis gotcha okay and I mix it now so I don't miss both okay very mysterious kind of older guy it's it's Papa that's how Papa's you know yeah I hear you uh okay other than your parents which human being has had the greatest impact on your life my mother-in-law she taught me to give she taught me to love without without expecting anything in return save the children India then and now whipla foundation so she taught me to give okay uh when have you felt the most fear in your life when I knew dad was deteriorating


your life when I knew dad was deteriorating and uh he had gone in for a surgery and we weren't sure whether you'd come out um what did you do at that point to deal with it prayed I think ran through life with him how it was and what it would be without him though he was not very active but still you know you feel you have that father figure at home so every time you go back you go to him and say Yes Boss what do you want me to do because till the very end I always said dad you know I'm doing this do you think it's okay that that Assurance from him that because he taught me never to lie and he said if you don't lie you'll have no fear in you you know and that is something that I've held on to so a lot of times you'll hear me speak and a lot of people who say why is he putting his foot in his mouth but I do because I feel that's the need you know and and


because I feel that's the need you know and and I do that and yeah I faced consequences but that's okay okay um is there any regret you have from your entire life could even be a tiny one yeah that I couldn't play for the country I couldn't play cricket for the country or the state I went to the school state level and all that and then I don't know why I gave up what was your role in the team I was an all-rounder I was a hardcore all around you know and I used to play with Ravi shastri and all that and Ravi shashir all of them even say today give it to us T20 then Sunil would have been the first one to represent angular field really yeah I had fly in the air that is so damn good you know shoot when when you're younger and you're totally into sports like this uh it results in health later on in life that's also why you look this way and that's why I always tell any parent get that child


that's why I always tell any parent get that child out and get him onto the ground yeah let him learn to be a team man woman let him learn to lose let him learn to do everything even as a baby I'll tell everybody you know what they've you know I wish my I said throw the ball at him let him get that hand eye coordination holding anything without looking at it because most of them are lost like this so the minute it is like this you know that in the long run there will be a problem the minute it is like this you know he's going to be razor sharp he or she will be razor sharp in school I have the little things which I believe that kids need to do you know for for to do to get into that side of it and they are confident level of confidence is different you know this is one of the coolest podcasts we've had it's not the end of the episode I'm just like okay I have to convey that because it's like a fatherhood


have to convey that because it's like a fatherhood guide and I I personally feel India needs it India needs a fatherhood guide definitely does definitely okay is come and go energy and you know something that has never bothered me and that's why I am who I am and as comfortable uh with whatever I am because it's never mattered mahalakshmi uh has been so kind to me that whenever I I have needed something and I've wanted something it's always happened but I've never strived for it for me money doesn't mean anything even if it's in the film industry done 130 films trust me 100 films minimum 100 films probably didn't get paid completely and I'd say you know what they must have lost something children um in my 20s I wish I had Dash I had the brains yeah I had the bronze but I didn't have the brains I was I was naive in the sense I was I was I was far too innocent okay you know and speak smarts and like I wasn't at


and speak smarts and like I wasn't at all uh and that that I mean didn't really affect me that much but it did send me back you know whether it was cricket pushing hard I didn't know anything that's why I always if as a father I keep telling ahan everything I keep telling him ah listen a kid he's a very very nice kid which is brilliant it's better to be that way but you need to be a little sweet smart too in my 30s I wish I had Dash knowledge of acting because I got into acting at 30 but I was not an actor and trained as an actor you know ahead of 80 fans will disagree much later in life you see the thing is to get to that stage to avoid being dropped because I was a bad actor I did that defying stunts and that's when the action heroes Unicity was born so I got a crazy fan following those fans got me a few more films and in the process I learned acting you know and uh one last


process I learned acting you know and uh one last question the one Health tip that was the most important in your whole life food is life yeah okay to eat is what you are uh and that's exactly how it's been for me okay so that's it that's the keep it casual round brought to you by azio uh I have so many things I'll ask you now and that was one of the uh purposes behind this round border has had such a huge impact on my life especially that scene where you're lying down in the sand and it's your introductory scene uh I said enacted when I was a kid was sung all the time in my own head probably till I was like a teenager uh I have come to realize after talking to people from the film industry that for culturally impactful films like border or kantara or Hera phiri there's always a subliminal energy that makes that film happen for example with kandara you know that that subject matter had to come out in the public eye


subject matter had to come out in the public eye I strongly believe that when it comes to border it was the energy of the 1971 war that made that film because a whole generation of Indians got inspiration from the Indian military because of border what was that film like when you all were shooting in real realized what an important film that would become absolutely and a funny story with that you know because jpg came to me and I had heard a lot of stories about JP dataki respect to them because you you needed to and then I said no so he couldn't understand why I said no for that role for that role and for that character and then that struggle went on for two three uh two three months and he was hell-bent on me for that character he got to uh bharatsha and who lived in my mother-in-law's building went to my mother-in-law they spoke to my mother-in-law it was my mother-in-law Who convinced me to do border and I told Mom one thing I said


do border and I told Mom one thing I said Mom he's hot-headed and he might say things I'm hot headed and I might use my arm for certain things so I don't want to have a bash up with JP dutta and uh beat him up on the set has that ever happened no it's happened a few times you know on set but outside when we were troubled but I said that and she told JP that and we had a meeting and JB said you know what I only get upset when people don't give hundred percent and after that after working with JP in Border I realized that he's a man who's in love with the Indian uh forces and otherwise he would have been a commercial director would have done 100 films because they had a hundred producers chasing him but he only did something that he believed in so that was A Life Lesson from a man like that and I'm glad I did border because the energy of Border was the armed forces and uniform not necessarily in the


was the armed forces and uniform not necessarily in the order of Army Navy Air Force BSF whatever it was just so many people that I sacrificed their life and nothing had been done about it because those films are tough to make um I'm also going to represent the military here and uh we've had a lot of guests from the military okay some of them are grateful to the film industry for creating border loc gargle these ways and some of them are not okay with some of the details in those films because it's not an exact representation of the of the military uh all in all I think these films have uh been very good for the military in terms of inspiring younger kids to actually be a part of it like when you see Sunita running into that Battlefield yeah you feel like being a soldier in life yourself I mean as a four-year-old that's the emotion I felt and then eventually in life maybe it's a podcast we learn about the details of the military and all that


learn about the details of the military and all that but it's very impactful for the military's branding that's what I believe absolutely for for the forces yes for sure we need to see more we need to and you know I'm glad that URI and the government is also encouraging it the Army now is thrown thrown everything opened saying you send us the script we believe in it we will we will push it all the way they give you the infrastructure they give you the technical know-how they have their people on set controlling it uh I'm glad this is happening you know I'm glad this is happening and more needs to be done even the police force see we're always abusing what they're doing not realizing they're working 20 hours a day you know and still serving you and still Mumbai or Maharashtra is one of the safest places in the world to be you know when you're cribbing about London now today India is absolutely safe and secure yeah it's because of the forces


safe and secure yeah it's because of the forces did that particular character change you for me there are three characters that stick out from your whole career but I'm speaking as a uh film fan here okay the first one is Hira fairy uh the second one strangely is like that was the one which culturally came up where you're limping and all that that's a meme on the internet yeah but the third and most impactful one is uh border uh I feel it kind of defines your career a little bit of course definitely because because yeah yeah playing a real life hero for a real life hero is very very tough because you don't know whether you could ever justify that you know because just creating that atmosphere of the battlefield and when the tanks actually came in I mean Mother Earth was was shaking here four tanks coming in and you know dark clouds walk clouds is what you realize is is that key how does a young man even survived that kind of atmosphere hats off to them you


that kind of atmosphere hats off to them you know the pain that they go through the conditions that they work under because we were shooting with the real army we were five or six actors and then it was the Army and me as the BSF you know so magical I think that I always respected the uniform it's you know and I always felt they are America uniforms you know you guys you you you make it clear that pets I mean the world to us you know the Army means the world to us we need to respect so suddenly you guys have straightened everyone so that's a good side of social media you know that's bringing the human side of it because for you what matters is now you know and honesty so I'm glad on a personal level I'm obsessed with the Indian military since I was a kid but it began with Sunday say ah they so and let me let me tell you uh we went on the set the AP and me and become friends by then so he


AP and me and become friends by then so he said come come soon here I want you to hear something and for me he's my Guru today you know Master Craftsman phenomenal human being uh the Sunday song was produces so you want to check it out check the song I said so put the song on when the song was done everybody was in their corner and in absolute tears you know from men they were suddenly boys they were Sons they were husbands they were brothers they were son-in-laws and in absolute tears most vulnerable lot ever but their focus is you know when I say it cuts me to me having had the pleasure of going to Cargill when what was on before they had called truce and shelling was going on and I went to the military Hospital there and I saw young boys here and I remember this one sick boy who had no arm and his father was standing there and they said uh you know I they introduced me and he says my son would like to see


me and he says my son would like to see you and they woke him up he was drowsy because he had lost his arm and you know surgery was done he was coming out of it and and he looked at me and any he was in a State of Shock and he looked at me and he says embarrassing and he says Saab and he started abusing foreign [Music] and you know that father took me out and the mother came and they were consoling me having already lost two kids in the Army before and this is a third child who had lost his arm and he says so how do we not respect show affection or or you know it's insane what they go through and I I saw that with with 50 kids who were there all willing to go back and climbing Cargill with a backpack that weighed as much as them because that's their only thing at a vulnerable point when because they were sitting on top and they were climbing up that's when I think the world


were climbing up that's when I think the world realized that the Indian army is the most powerful army in the world because the only thing they used to say is something that was foreign it's insane my experiences with the Army and you know that's why when you go see ISF and border each one has their role and they're doing it beautifully in layers you know whether it's the police it's the cisf guarding every damn one vantage point of your country saving all of us whether it's the airport it's this then the BSF and the border the Army the Navy the Air Force I mean I can go on and on and on about them and Sunil Shetty has the respect and will be remembered for this for the for Generations together on 26 January and August 15th thanks to bharosing and and Border you know everything else will be forgotten but the the this film will not allow anybody to forget you and it's because of Border you know what did you go through I mean oh with


know what did you go through I mean oh with speaking of military uh we've done a bunch of episodes and um I think a lot of those guys have seen so much that they've waited to come on a public platform and just speak about what they have seen beard dealing with wild animals beer dealing with losing teammates I think that's the biggest kind of wrong for all of them like I've seen the toughest guys they're talking about eating snakes they're talking about doing very difficult missions killing terrorists but the moment you bring up one of the brothers they break down on the so many guys have broken down on the show no and and the BSF at the borders run of Kutch single man standing there and standing and and nothing no sense of direction you go one kilometer inside and you don't know not south east west you are lost without one man waiting for lunch to come somebody replace and I've seen that everywhere you know I work very closely with the


everywhere you know I work very closely with the BSF also and I've seen them everywhere so even now when I went to Amazon and I went to the border and stuff like that the lives these men leader their families that's the one kind of overall learning from the show has been um and not just this all the episodes yeah has been life is definitely decided by circumstance all famous people are picked out Souls of Cherry Picked souls to a certain degree there's been too many circumstances in their life to make them famous but the other Cherry Picked souls are the military Souls there is a very different kind of mind in those skulls and those people were meant to serve our country were mentors but then we are blessed to have them we're blessed absolutely blessed to have them and each one thinks like this and not that they're living life king size yeah you know it's the basics that's being provided to them and that's why you know when when


provided to them and that's why you know when when you say Army Navy Air Force spends mental health and there are oppositions that are the the political parties that are fighting you wonder yeah they're the men who are doing everything and you are fighting for what yeah uh I think our whole generation my my people my eight people yeah everyone's starting to celebrate the military March more uh that's all we can do as Citizens so I think and just by talking someone like you speaking about it model Creator no and it's given for me personally also he's given me my everything Sunil Shetty is known as you make memes you do anything you want to but you have to do it because if you want to be seen it's it's about that dharti it's about the character almost 30 years later Hunter yeah being loved congratulations on all the adulations thank you thank you how are you feeling about it brilliant you know because I wanted to try my uh handed action all over again and you know


my uh handed action all over again and you know and that's why when you ask me the question I said yes gone slower for sure but smarter wiser you know and understood characters more excited about Hunter because once again he's a man in you in uniform but without uniform he's a cop and for him what matters is is his people children and how turmoil comes into his life he messes up but then how he gets out of it so giving it our best shot you know it's a great production it's it's a great distribution platform uh you know whether it's saregama that's done it invested so much money in an action hero who was you know but they still believe he is which is which is hats off to them I'll always be indebted but I think you've managed to stay extremely culturally relevant and I know there's one thing about Fame after eight years in media uh Fame is extremely difficult to maintain in fact it's more difficult to achieve and maintain Fame than


more difficult to achieve and maintain Fame than it's to achieve and maintain money that's what I started very true very true very true but I'm I'm blessed that they've kept me alive and you know sarigama comes up and and and believes that I could deliver you know such an intense uh subject and such a complex subject young directors wanting to go with a you know an older guy and agreeing to do it with Sunil Shetty so I've always remember that then and then a platform like Amazon mini TV coming in and saying you know what we will distribute it we will give you that energy this marketing thing gives me the energy to go out there and and be who I was probably and not who I am you know uh Sunil Shati who is an action star and let me be me so yeah blessed ah before I let you leave sir just one last question what's up with the next hero fairy film soon okay very very soon are you very excited very very excited


very soon are you very excited very very excited and the best part of it is we we shot the promo and we we didn't even realize that 16 years had gone by you know the minute they said and myself back to all the Masti that was happening and there's a certain gesture that our kid is and Aki did that to me and I said what happened and he said pass it on I said oh yeah and you know passed it on to pareshi so we were back on track no crazy one are coming back too yeah yeah uh that scene of you kind of building up the guy at the start and that was another kind of cult yeah yeah fight yeah uh people still talk about it you know I've been in rooms where everyone's like I don't know why but every year I go back to awara once at least I think it takes us all back to our childhood and that forgetful with the uh that forgetful character also not remembering what he's trying to explain everything you know


remembering what he's trying to explain everything you know in conversation but can't remember uh what it's called so everybody loves that side of it no uh do you miss that phase of comedy of course I do in the film industry I do but you know the beauty is Hunter has that sarcastic uh Sunil Shetty in it you know he has that Vikram Vikram who's who's got those one-liners I want you to if you see it get back to me on it because I'm sure [Music] this is crazy because that the the girls were going crazy and laughing you know saying but it works it works so it's that that work is is important yeah I think a massive part of our population is looking forward to seeing this phase of Comedy a little bit again yeah official industry and from Ott shows I think that's about it uh something in my heart tells me that we will be speaking again at some point in the future absolutely because uh learned a lot from you uh I think


because uh learned a lot from you uh I think there's still so much to unpack from your life and uh maybe this was just the conversation where we get to know each other as uh people um what I definitely wish to tell you is that this is roughly about uh 500 episode or so uh and I really know my human beings by this point uh my job is to go into people's stories in people's hearts and just find out what's going on one thing I will definitely tell you is that I think you're a combination of a lot of correct mindsets that might be from your martial arts background yes very true very very true it was it is my martial arts background it is the Okinawa gojuri style of martial arts the most traditional style of martial arts since I've always miss three you know uh who was a guru that's why even for ahan I always look for gurus I never look for your brother trainers you know everything is about having Guru and that is why gurukul


about having Guru and that is why gurukul is in India and the culture works like magic um but I still feel that's just one factor in terms of what's dictated your whole entire life yeah over the course of this episode when you're talking about your wife your children uh your own career uh this definitely like this kind of um series of blessings one after another and there's a lot of guys in my place who are seeing that early success in life you know in the 20s and 30s they dream to be where you are at 60 in terms of an overall Balanced Life which is material success but also Family Life success emotional success which is why I feel uh even though you're my dad's age roughly I get a bhaiya energy from you more and I feel I can like talk to you but I think that's the energy Hans saw on you and he kept telling me papa you should you should and you know I still remember telling ahan I'm not relevant yet uh baby I'm


telling ahan I'm not relevant yet uh baby I'm going through something I need to get out of it and be relevant enough to go somewhere and speak so that people can people can listen to you and want to listen to you because it's that low when you go through that low and see that high is when people want to know you know so I always tell all the kids key don't let success go to this and don't let failure go to your heart here that's the only only reason um like as in in as polite away as I can possibly create here uh I would like humbly disagree with you sir in terms of your relevance I feel some people have gone beyond that relevance angle because you've served for so long yeah no I I understand that but you know somewhere when you when I don't know as an individual when when you're when you're not seeing what you did see you take a backseat you know you take a back seat and I took that backseat for no rhyme


seat and I took that backseat for no rhyme for no uh reason other than the fact that I wanted to step back and understand what all I had done wrong you know so that I could correct it the intention always was to get back to work be relevant again of course in your own little world of Entrepreneurship you are relevant and you know you did all the right things uh that were there the pandemic taught us so much you know as to what needs to be done and how things need to be corrected and what what we should go in for whether it's who we work for or who are working for us you know both ways what were the mistakes that you uh earlier I think choosing of the wrong subjects believing that you were above uh the product itself believing that you're stardom and would take you through uh through everything uh you know doing too much and not paying attention see even if you don't you your very own child will not love you if you don't love the child the


not love you if you don't love the child the more time you give the child or your pet or your family they will come back to your child who comes running back to you only when he misses you or she misses you if you don't give that time they will never even realize you're gone it's only mama mama then you know so my father always told me love your work like your own child and you'll get your answer don't don't do it do it any other way so there you know because I belong to a world just the other day also I was mentioning it during the pandemic my only reasoning was oh office is closed what will the kids do then when we started a little bit of online I said guys make sure we can get more kids on board because Lord are being laid out so can I end the pandemic with five people extra working for me you know I don't balance my books by uh offloading people during the financial year end you know my books are balanced


the financial year end you know my books are balanced my my my numbers are looking good I don't do that I don't I don't come from that world you know so yes this is why God blesses you exactly and uh that's why I believe I am lucky and so these little things do matter to me the last thing I will say to you is that uh I think some new Innings is just starting like for you yes and I'm sure you feel the same no no I definitely feel that energy I definitely feel that energy but this time I'm far more conscious because this journey in this energy is to probably take a lot of people along with me who are not as fortunate you know and I have been fortunate enough to get a uh second Innings here and uh there's a lot I want to give back and I'm very clear about that I just need the hamper all right so sweet thank you all right so and on behalf of the entire TRS team as well as agio's team uh


entire TRS team as well as agio's team uh hold on we left this is a hamper from us uh it's packed with some goodies but also lots of love and lots of gratitude thank you for teaching us all these things today so as I said earlier there's a lot more to unpack and you be it stories experiences anecdotes or mistakes uh there's a lot that the internet needs from you so I encourage you not just to be back on our show but to do more podcasts in general for sure I feel that format will really unlock the wisdom you've gained uh and I'm just grateful that I get to talk to the same person who inspired me when I was four years old when I was seeing Sunday so just thank you some means a lot no and you're doing a super job trust me you're a good human being you're a good Soul so you'll do good God bless thank you so that was the episode for today all I'll say is that I feel like this was kind


I'll say is that I feel like this was kind of an icebreaking episode and Sunil is going to be back on the show very soon he's got this extremely calming relaxed energy that all my teammates felt as well these are the kind of older professionals you want to learn from because often in Media or in Industries in general it's not every day that you find a mental figure in life and that's what I hope to bring to you through the show we've covered Career Mentoring so much in the past on the review show but as I have grown up over the last four years I've realized that emotional mentoring mentoring related family life is as important as Career Mentoring and that's what I got through this episode myself the other thing about this episode is that we decided to up the style quotient so if you feel like looking like this if you want to be styled this way make sure you download the rgo app and begin shopping right now know lots more episodes coming up we have an


now know lots more episodes coming up we have an incredible lineup of guests on both the English and the Hindi podcast it's coming at you very very soon so make sure you follow us on Spotify every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world the next time Sunil Shetty is here we're going to continue from where he left off I cannot wait to speak to him again as is the case with any episode it changes me up just a little bit the one feeling that I am feeling at this point is a sense of Surety going into the future and I hope that that's what you gained from this conversation as well ERS is where the human side of your favorite icons comes out like never before so keep following the runway show powered by rgo [Music]


this is the guru nanak which we are you know we look at his portraits these days which is really not the real Guru namak why what why well he he's a farmer would a farmer look like that that's a very different image we have made I mean his hands would be fair and lovely hands you look at the farmer's hands they will become very different the government in 84 had hired a company to do a negative campaign on sex globally it's called redefusion which became rediffmail eventually as in the same company became rediff rediffmail.com yeah story of Guru Gobind Singh even sex are not ready for we actually don't know group open Singh is what I say to six what do we know about him you know if I say to you he was a bihari most people be like what he's a bihari he's not Punjabi he's born in Patna today's episode is immensely powerful immensely storytelling oriented and immensely informative if you've ever wanted to learn about


immensely informative if you've ever wanted to learn about sikhi which most people know of as Sikhism this is the episode we did a prequel episode about Guru nanak and the basics of sikhi this one is more of a deep dive if you're sick of course watch this one till the end spread it as much as possible but if you're Indian in general even if you're not sick this is the episode you need to watch to understand the historical Sikh perspective and the present Sikh perspective considering that this whole kalistan situation has woken up in the world lately this is the podcast that people need to watch all I'll request of you is to share this episode as far and as wide as possible for more episodes just like this make sure you follow us on Spotify Spotify exclusive every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world on today's episode harinder Singh returns to educate us to Enlighten us and to take us through the Journey


Enlighten us and to take us through the Journey of sikhi on TRS [Music] thank you so welcome back to the runway show for an even deeper conversation on sikhi you're careful of what you ask her man sometimes he forgets yeah it smells too then I'm just kidding this is the sequel to last time's episode so um I really thought we'll end up doing a story to actually begin talking about uh sikhi on TRS uh we didn't do that we actually spoke about the philosophies of it more uh I think we ended the last episode with Guru nanak Dev ji's learnings what the absolute core principles uh of sexa I actually want to begin this episode by going back to the story a little bit and then again we follow the same pattern where we go tangentially in the last one yeah and we were talking about succession okay on this episode we also have to address the guru grantha in detail yes uh which one would you like to begin at the success wherever you


would you like to begin at the success wherever you want to go where would you like to go it's your show it's for your audience let's go with the succession sounds good so at kartarpur he's training right he's training in this Paradigm of what I was calling a common car and then we talked about it but The Words which come out more is as I was saying there's a city now there's a planning how are you going to institutionalize certain things which means what is the policy of this area how do we live essentially today we call this governance today we call this community building right so what is the next in line before Guru nanak leaves this Earth so this is very important this all happened when he's alive so it didn't happen after he died first of all and it's not his son so what did he give him this is directly from Guru granth sub so things I want to talk about is how do I know all this because what Guru and Sab


do I know all this because what Guru and Sab the the world calls it the sex scripture scripture is not the right word for it in my opinion because that's something it's not a native term we call it bani bani is a voice which voice is being carried in there right the voice which Guru nanaks is carrying in this he says what was given to Guru angad that what was this qualification he says he was given the Divine qualities they're gone so this is very very important so what did he transfer he says he because he was possessing the Divine qualities he's been trained in it Guru nanak personally trained him when he gave him the guru ship he gave him Gyan is not just a knowledge it is that deeper knowledge which we call wisdom with a capital W now right and then is a symbolism of the ability to rule is sword that it is authoritative ability this is which we are you know we look at his portraits these days which is really not the real


his portraits these days which is really not the real Guru namak why what why well he he's a farmer would a farmer look like that that's a very different image we have made I mean his hands would be fair and lovely hands you look at the farmer's hands it will be very different so we have created this santra tradition Guru namak whereas the real Guru namak is a traveler real spending time in jail real gurnamic is farming is wearing different clothes and eating different things and talking in different languages that's a different Guru nanak which is the real gurnamic in Guru Gran Sab our source of Truth and I was saying it's not a scripture because it's more like a charter you have to read the charter and interpret it it is not a mantra to be repeated only expand a little bit on what a charter means Charter means what are your first principles because first principles don't talk about every issues you have to use those it's like a


every issues you have to use those it's like a constitution to interpret for the reality of today so like in 2023 if I have a behavioral thing going on a political scenario or economic issue what is a solution from this paradigm so that's a charter Charters don't cover every issue they cover the principles which have to be interpreted for your reality in the era you are living in okay so Universal rules that actually go past timelines that's right beyond the space of time and error you are in exactly yeah okay so that's what guruanga is getting so he institutionalizes what now like travel set up the city the two major things he did he develops a new script languages are local phenomenas but he develops a script now this is something which people who understand development of a new script in everywhere in the world is considered development of a new political unit really absolutely because this is how the knowledges are going to be written and transferred so Guru nanak utilizes all the letters of


so Guru nanak utilizes all the letters of gurmukhi's script but guruangath organizes them and he becomes a teacher because he says now knowledge has to be availed what we call today Avail to the whole open source of knowledge because it was not open source it was very much of a privilege so guruanga develops it and he's teaching you earlier in the last show we talked about sorry he comes one day to see guruanga this is gonna be interesting because and he's quite upset himayu comes to see him a day after he loses to share sasuri small context babur was the first Mughal Emperor babar's son was humayu he's the second vocal Emperor who got ousted by shesha Suri who was babar's is a general I believe he worked he was in Baba's Army he becomes his adversary at some point that's right and then is power hungry actually becomes a powerful Emperor but then I don't think he has a good successor something like that


think he has a good successor something like that no because you see history is eventually his story right so it depends on which version we go why but we'll say they're adversaries I I don't like to say that it is only that because Emperor is a strong word you know but he's an adversary yes eventually humayu gets the throne back that's right and him are you in that condition when he has just lost actually comes to guruangar in a city which he founded called kadur it still exists it's we call it and he's teaching that day sir on Indian side that's right or the cities are on both sides of the Border because it was Punjab um and he's teaching that day and himayu walks in and he gets stopped he's very upset because you know he's a big man it's like a prime minister walking in and you're not attending to him he's like look and he pulls out his sword and guruanga he's like you didn't pull it where you


he's like you didn't pull it where you needed to pull it I'm teaching right now just wait so this level of instruction and communication with Emperor and again Emperor is another thing this is part of the Gyan khadak the ability to have a conversation and say the truth where you need to say it that's what Guru is Guru word you know it's a principally speaking uh if you look in the hindustani parampuras they say in the tradition and it is goo is darkness and Drew is light somebody who is an enlightener who takes you from the ignorance to Enlightenment including with the Emperors so that's guruanga's confrontation as well so every Guru of the 10 gurus if you look at like this from Guru nanak guruanga then eventually to Guru Gobind Singh it's the same jot the same light the only thing which is in fact the sick Paradigm in Guru granth sahab says the Delight was exactly the same which means wisdom and method


was exactly the same which means wisdom and method was exactly the same this might confuse people because we have our own image of what Guru Gobind Singh Is it says is Method how they implemented the vision only thing different between their ten bodies was the body change what was the method exactly so method is what how Guru nanak did dialogue how gurnamic developed institutions Guru mangat further which means the external manifestation changes like some people believe the first five gurus were pacifist this is what books write and then they write the next four became little militant and Guru romance became very militant yeah this is a common thesis completely antithetical to sick belief which is that all Guru was exactly the same militancy physical fight you know like Wars is an external manifestation of what's needed at the time but every single one was prepared the whole symbolism in Guru Gran Sab is they all carried Gyan and they all carried kharag um so we have to understand that


kharag um so we have to understand that this is why nothing changed from Guru nanak to Guru Gobind Singh it's the it's the acclimatization of the time the needs of the time you're being shown how to work with it how to tackle it or address it okay at the start of the last episode we spoke about the mystical aspects of six uh would you like to highlight it here as well especially when we're talking about a wisdom transfer absolutely uh the mystical element so even the very names I like to work with the words themselves right so guruanga is named Lana Lana is an asset literally that's what it means and he is so well trained what is the training in in the wisdom and the methodology and the jugat that eventually when he's given the gurush of he's called angad that Guru nanak is saying you are of my own body now so body otherwise is different some mysticism is what mysticism is you can physically understand that


what mysticism is you can physically understand that this is the next party but the ability to have the same relationship with the divine and then within that out of that relationship your ability to rule or create methods or the solutions for the community that's the mystical element Granger has his own experience of the Divine that's the whole point and those experiences we can all have and guruangad also had who otherwise by the way earlier did all sorts of things too this is another thing I want to mention people think they were perfect beings no they were Average Joe's as we call them today you know they also had trajectories of Life which took home all sorts of places but once they entered into the house of wisdom in this case the house of Guru namak they consciously chose to change their lifestyle and then they got trained in it then they experienced it and among from those One LED it and guruanga does that okay uh want to expand on his journey one of them I mentioned was the


on his journey one of them I mentioned was the the development of the script which people it's it's education effect of that I want to mention is you know in an early 20th century we don't know this what people now call Golden Temple the harmandir Saab complex there's a parkarma there's a you walk around it right you know on where there's a wide walk away there used to be classes there used to be Learning Centers now they have become worship centers they used to be where there was activism you see some of that but you see it in a very different way these days you know it's more flashy so this was a place where and this is what gurus developed that look the learning first one was spiritual center your connection to the Divine we use the word simran that we learn how to be in the remembrance of the one that's the first reason why we go to Gurdwara and the next four there are four more eventual one is that it's a fold the things which


one is that it's a fold the things which need to be protected you provide protection whether it's human and primarily is human beings that's why gurdwaras used to be safe sanctuaries what we now call Sanctuary cities in America when the president of America is messing things up there was few Mayors who says no come to our cities we'll protect you that's what gurdwara's used to be including during emergency I don't know many people know this in India when there was a period of emergency in mid 70s in this country 1970s people of opposition went to Darbar sub complex in Amritsar and they were in sanctuary there no police or no Army went there knowing very well that even the current prime minister of India was inside so this is a very big thing creating Gurdwara as a safe space where Empowerment Center for a woman guruanga did that as well so what I'm trying to say is the ideas in Guru grantha are really about becoming a lover of the Divine


are really about becoming a lover of the Divine I'm gonna come back to that because they write it as such they use that word in fact I should share that it says you know people talk about who's a lover and we got our own versions of from Bollywood to mysticisms to old guzzles it says people who make lists of pluses and minuses they can never be called lovers because lovers live beyond consequences think about that for a second mostly we are dealing with transactionality we call it today the transactions of life including in the relationships we have done exactly same when we pursue divinity you know human behavior is I'll do this Prasad or I'll do that if this happens that's transaction what we are told is no the lover just loves it is up to the Beloved what the Beloved does so this angle is carried by each Guru but uh as a relationship because they became the levers the ultimate lovers we must be addressing the realities of the communities we live in


addressing the realities of the communities we live in this is why you see such a political activism among six from day one that's in the DNA because Guru nanak did it because people don't understand why six are like this well well because that's what we believe in and we do this to our own leaders we don't look at whether it's Hindu or a Sikh or a Muslim we did that to Ranjit Singh too because a part of from the ability to speak the truth when it's needed not afterwards and he writes it like that Guru namak has written where he says such so nice is make sure make sure you speak the truth where it is needed the most at that moment so that becomes part of a DNA these are the trainings so this idea of physical and non-physical or metaphysical if you want to call it if you want to be philosophical about it this is part of the training and that training idea is in Guru Gran sahib we call it Shabbat


in Guru Gran sahib we call it Shabbat Shabbat is old Indian endology word you know where it's a combination of world and sound and what has happened over the years this is my understanding now that the knowledge part people are still pursuing sound part is the experience part and because we lack that experience the wisdom is becoming something else it is some intellectualization you know like PhD job security stuff going on rather than experience and of knowledge coming together to bring changes within and for the communities we live in said a lot of deep stuff in this one pattern well you said you wanted something deeper yeah no no no this is great this is great consensus of what you're saying is again that element of mysticism and dhyan especially when it comes back uh into a younger generation of six people will know true Sikhism that's what I've understood from what you're saying something like that and I don't want to reduce this to six you know I went to a space in Lahore


you know I went to a space in Lahore on a Friday at 7 00 PM I was speaking at Punjabi University of Lahore you know there's a Punjab University inside there's one there because of 47. and I finished my lecture and I realized it was 7 pm and there is I went to the Sangha they call it sangad Muslim left his Sufi sir together there I'd read about them in the book and I went there that day they were discussing's Vara who is a exponent of a theologian and a linguist from the fifth guru's period the one who was a scribe of Guru granth sahib just like on this side of the border that side these borders are you know fictitious as we said they're constructed people it's not just the six who read these this was part of the culture of Punjab it was six nonsense Muslims drivers Hindus sufis leftist sufis included you know so my point in sharing this is it's not just a six


point in sharing this is it's not just a six obviously the one you will claims to be of the guru they better understand it but others also read this and I don't like to say true sikhi because as soon as we start qualifying something has to be negated then this is where the wars are right the debates on ideas is this everyone's claiming they are true well the truth is in the source of Truth which for six is Guru granth sahib everything else is debatable bit of a rookie question yeah um was the guru grantha have constantly added upon over the years because that's the narrative that a lot of Indians have what's the narrative Guru grantha was compiled by Guru Arjun the fifth in the line of the gurus okay he every Guru got the Banis like Guru nanak's Pani guruangasbani Guru amardas Guru ramdas and Guru Arjun is there and by now there's a fifth generation of six by bani you mean learnings of


generation of six by bani you mean learnings of the time they are compiled in shabbats poetry and raag remember we are too focused on intellectual element the literary element now the poetry and rag is very important the musical Harmony and the Poetics because that's where many things are experienced mystically you're saying once you chant what's written in sing Sikh culture is primarily about singing GAO look right now there are two of us talking we are exchanging but we are not talking at the same time if we talked at the same time nothing will be understood if we change that to singing and you can make a thousand people it will be a powerful experience but if thousand people were talking it would be pretty destructive experience sikhi it's very much kirtan and singing GAO because when we sing we're in working in the indologies what we call Rus shingars or the flavors emotions which brings to us a larger experience of our understanding so Sikh culture is very much


of our understanding so Sikh culture is very much about singing and not in the way we see it these days it's become something else you know rabindranath tagore went to the Warsaw Complex and he heard there and he's written about this he's like this is a very different music and he just wanted to keep listening to it he's never heard anything like it until 1970s the Bollywood directors used to go to darwazab complex to listen to the newest thing which means the tradition was that rich you know of kirtan not this regular kirtan with a three key magic business so that's where it's coming from because every Guru sang they played the instruments can I have a go at this like in terms of reverse engineering the logic a little bit sure you know when you watch a movie the background score plays a huge role if it's if there's the same scene with the music for a thriller moment that'll make you feel different if the same scene has romantic music that'll make you feel different


scene has romantic music that'll make you feel different that's right so what I am assuming is that the words in the guru granth sahib had power and not that power was added upon more by tune because tune made you feel a certain way as a chanter and that mixture of the words as well as the emotions as well as the tune actually resulted in a deeper connection to the Divine which was Guru nanak's original idea something like that it's something like that in fact if I may use a phrase when gurnanak would start to sing when he'll say mardania who was his companion who played rabab yeah one of the string instruments and he would say look at the word chair you don't play it's what we call you know when you are just mess around it's not even it's like when you're having a jamming session I don't want to use word so you know it's got other elements in there there's a lot of connotation in it's not you're going to play


of connotation in it's not you're going to play me you're going to touch me in a particular way that is going to do certain things right there is that feeling element passionate element in there so yeah the music does that and playing a particular music you know the I mean I can get into that the old hindustani tradition of used to be all about singing which barely two or three exponents are left now what is duper exactly right because now we don't get to hear it and then we wonder how come the facts not because every music has its own not just genre but emotion there's a purpose of invoking it right like if I'm listening to Public Enemy I know what I'm going to get from Chuck D if I'm listening to Phil Collins I know what I'm going to get but if I'm listening to dagger Brothers I know what I'm going to get if I'm listening to bhims and Joshi I know I'm gonna get incredible techniques if I'm listening to bade


get incredible techniques if I'm listening to bade gulam Ali khazab I know he's gonna make me cry right so there's a there's an invocation so dropped had something of that nature which now has become rare you know now even the Damas we hear have become something else now Damar was incredible because they invoke the emotion where the whole vibrations as we call them now now it's semi-romantic if I may call it that earlier it used to be romance but a much more fulfilling one and transcending it to Divine Romance um okay now I'll have to pull you back to the story sir uh that's kind of anchor through these two episodes what would you like to say about guruanga's life so we are on Guru Arjun right how Guru grants have came what are different versions do you want to skip the third and fourth gurus I don't know I mean we can get into it but I can combine it in here okay sure came as we were talking about


in here okay sure came as we were talking about its collection what Guru Nana gave to guruanga they gave a bani they gave them Gyan and remember methodology and wisdom and wisdom is in the Barney Barney is the voice which is a collection of shabbats you know so that was given to guruanga guruangar gave to Guru ambar Das gave to Guru Ram Das and gurram Das by the time Guru Arjun came he's 18 years old of course we can discuss everything but I want to mention the 18 year old he has two Elder Brothers who don't get the guru ship you can see what it does in even in today's scenario in Hindustan right one is renunciate the other collaborates with the state of the time too much he's 18 year old he's the one who looks at the now Distortion is occurring people are writing Shabbos they add the word namak in there it happens even today he's like how we gonna know what is the


he's like how we gonna know what is the source of Truth so he designs an ingenious system of compiling this he's crew origin is the one then who put together what we now call Guru grantha there are only two versions first is his everything available to him till his money all the what I called earlier the radical buggers 15 of them Birds you know they're called part the court poets and the courts of the gurus 11 of them and then three six who recorded certain things in the guru period he takes all of them and compiles them and it was called are the granth at the time and then the second version is what Guru Gobind Singh put together which includes the Banis of the ninth Guru Guru take bahadur so there are only two rest is all confusion okay and they're only too authenticated first by groverjal that this is the only authentic are there alternative ones absolutely The Descendants who are biological descendants who didn't get the guru ship they like


descendants who didn't get the guru ship they like to claim their other ones but they have never been accepted by six because we believe what Guru said is the right one and we only focus on that okay I want you to paint a better historical contextual picture of the time I'm assuming that at the time of the second third fourth and fifth Guru we're talking also about the time the Mughal Empire was growing and ruling Hindustan absolutely so the third Guru is the akbar's time third and fourth Guru so the ages are different because third Guru is very old as well in fact he's the oldest Guru from age they're all destroying stereotypes as I said earlier right and one of the stereotypes he destroys is in a 60 easy changes his lifestyle and he eventually gets the guru ship there are many other people because the criteria is same the people who have become like the Divine in their behaviors not just in their vocalizations right he's the one who


just in their vocalizations right he's the one who organized the six in 22 manjis it's called because the Mughal Empire at the time had 22 regions and this may shock people three of the heads of those missions as we call them today were women the oldest man as a guru because old people don't change their habits that's why I'm saying this he actually appoints the head of Kabul Mission the Kabul Manji as a woman and you know how women in Afghanistan even today are treated this is mandate you don't say they're equal you don't say we should do that should is preaching you just do it and you do it that if you want to talk to me she's my Emissary you better talk to her figure out how to talk to her you may not agree with it machines are Emissary you better figure out how to talk to her that's what Guru normal who brought together by the way the fourth Guru is the poorest Guru third Guru was the


is the poorest Guru third Guru was the richest Guru maybe you recall sometimes you know they give you other than Prasad that's in the memory of Guru ramdas because as a kid he was a very poor kid he used to sell those to make his living now think about this the richest Guru is marrying his daughter to somebody who's that poor because the criteria was not how rich somebody is in terms of wealth or money assets the richness of qualities this is how stereotypes are being destroyed that's why among six a lot of this principle is very clear in practice people are not able to do it many a time can you give a little historical context on how uh the belief system was spreading like what was happening uh especially with respect to the Mughal Empire as well as the local Kings of the time I'm sure there was some kind of religious debates religious persecution of some form from both sides by the way from the predecessor for example the Hindu and Islamic


the predecessor for example the Hindu and Islamic ideas they both culture the Muslim ideas the religious leaders are not very happy with the gurus because there's a lot of disruption the qazis and the brahmanas are not happy because you're treating Way Beyond the ideas of equality of the time right from a caste perspective from the women perspective I mean it's it's it's very just when anyone's power is being taken away it's a hegemonic culture is being destroyed that's what we call it today and that's why there are issues so there were issues I mean six out of the ten gurus just to put a number on it to make it so clear and because we don't understand these things six out of the ten gurus either spend time in jail there were targets of political assassination or martyred with torture Guru Arjun we just talked about right who his two biggest contributions are Guru granth sahib and what we call Golden Temple today harmandir sub complex from because one


Golden Temple today harmandir sub complex from because one disrupted the thought that it's available to everyone he wrote that he says all the wisdom I had gathered I am openly presenting to the world ancestor here are not biological they are Guru ships the ones who carried the wisdom he's like I am openly now making it available to everyone obviously the the Muslim and the Hindu priest didn't like that or the kazis it wasn't open previously no it was because remember even today religiosity is so exclusive people say it can only be given to particular people in a particular way at a particular time so anyone who took up sikhi it was presented and non-six no I mean before uh Guru Arjun Guru nanak is already doing it now look the guru nanak traveled and the Shabbat was available so one of the things this is a great question in sikhi the personality is not Central shabbatis we appreciate Guru namak and call him honorifically Guru namak


namak and call him honorifically Guru namak but according to Guru nanak himself the guru is always the Sabbath what we call Shabbat now used to be Sabbath you know old language the word the wisdom itself the Eternal wisdom so that became that was always been Central and sikhi that's why you'll see Guru grantha the Reverend six gave is at the very next level it is not just a religious book for us because we believe that's Central to us and not just us to the world the wisdom is Central and Guru Arjun because he created a Center to House that wisdom too that's Golden Temple complex now the and everyone's allowed so people in Asia were not used to that anyone can come and have access to it these two were the reasons why he was tortured to death want to talk about that I want to just address the golden temple first okay that is the image of sikhi for a lot of people all over the world I won't just say


of people all over the world I won't just say Indians oh it's Global image yes um foreign 11 year old watching this show how would you explain its significance great this is firstly I'm gonna take out the word golden in the guru period of the 10 gurus it was never golden Maharaja Ranjit Singh made it golden so you know the glitter part was never part of the sex tradition it became when they became rulers of Punjab right which has its own right it's a great story but in the guru period it was never golden it is architecture is very very important four doors which means open to all four people from all four corners doesn't matter which cast which background which religion and anyone who comes he has to walk down there is only way to enter a shrine is being humble going down is that and doesn't matter which entrance you came in from there's only way one way to go to Divinity so like surrounding the pool the the sarovar as we call it


the pool the the sarovar as we call it there's only one pathway which goes to harimandar sahab Hari mandar hurry in indic Tradition including in sex tradition is the World which is Hari can mean all pervasive I'm gonna go to etymology now sure Hari means all pervasive Hari is not just a vishnu's avatar that's the name many like my name is Aryan that doesn't mean I am what does the word mean it's the most oft repeated word in Guru granth sahib that's why it's called Hari mandar anything which is physical will be something less so what is the idea first right it's a building at the end of the day but what's the idea behind the building so when you see it idea behind the building is here is one manifestation of all pervasive Force that's what Hari means Hari also means the one who eliminates your fear so if you want eliminate fear let's read what's housed in this building right which is what I


housed in this building right which is what I talked about earlier Hari so Hari is something green something which grows you something which blossoms and our ideas for that are housed here in this building in harmandir complex that's what should be coming out right now it's become a selfie thing which I get it because of the glitter and everyone respected it that's why even when they tortured conversion to death they dare not attack it or they are not saki take out Guru grantha because it is includes elements of uh Baba Farid who comes from Islamic tradition and this is this is very disruptive let me put it blanketly where people understand it has shabbats of Brahman it also has Shabbos of butcher think about that for a second this is how disruptive it was people didn't know how to deal because they're like it doesn't matter if you have experience a common car the one then we must learn from them it doesn't matter what they wear doesn't matter what they eat


matter what they wear doesn't matter what they eat doesn't matter what religion they come from doesn't matter what language is utilized by them it's the experience we identify because that experience is so intimate so personal So Divine complex okay and for people who've not been there would you like to relay something about what you experience well it's it's emotional experience for most people who visit there doesn't matter what background they are for many it's a historical thing because the history of that complex is very unique not just the construction and what I just talked about the idea but throughout history it's been destroyed many times as well um and it's rebuilt many times as well in fact there is a sick author from Delhi you know who's died now siddhar but one thing I'm going to quote him he he did a book on Golden Temple with raghura a celebrated photographer of India so I'm just giving that reference if people want to check it out and he has written this phrase here about what this place


he has written this phrase here about what this place is and the phrase he used is it took the blood and sweat of many generations to build it to defend it and to rebuild it it is not a sacred place for us we don't have a sick he doesn't have idea of Sacred Space we believe every place is sacred it's a historical place where we gather and we learn that vision and Implement that Vision so when you look at that visual sometimes you don't know what to do politically speaking that's what this place is it's that complex which has multiple gurdwaras actually you know you've probably seen their couple of long watch Towers there used to be hundreds of them until the early 20th century because everyone every group thought the sick groups included we should play our role to protect this area is that good yeah they were called bungas the watchtowers not of the government not of the six of people from various brothers or groups who said we want to play a role in


groups who said we want to play a role in protecting it's so good the wisdom in there um yeah I think the context I gained is that it's a historical symbol not symbol symbols are transferable so I have to be careful with the words you can say draw it on a piece of paper put in your pocket that's a symbol it's a manifestation of that idea which is living reality this is why you know there was a move to make the golden temple complex a UNESCO site many seeks who understand this vehemently opposed it UNESCO sites are not lived realities they're in the past they're being just protected this is a lived functional space um it must be understood as such it is part of the sick DNA that don't tell us what to do with it we have never listened to anyone who's told us none of the gurus did this is our space we will do what we need to do here what do you mean never listen to anyone who has told you why


never listen to anyone who has told you why why would someone tell the six anyone who including look um because six DNA asset is like a spiritual political DNA and spiritual and political leaders always want to be controlling whether they look like sex or whether they don't look like six okay so they want to control the thought process which is emanated from there because it's opposition for them technically that's right like in the British period uh people don't know like you know the the sick activism in early 20th century was even the gurdwaras were run by British okay yes they assigned managers at each Gurdwara because they knew including their WhatsApp complex Golden Temple complex this is going to shock you they have their own who actually brought General Dwyer the guy who gave orders for jallianwala attack and gave him sarupa which means acknowledge them yeah and recognize them can you imagine that because it was appointed by the British so six decided in early 20th century we're gonna free your


in early 20th century we're gonna free your gurdwaras this will be your test run on how to free South Asia and they did they got ground Golden Temple complex pack they got nankanasa where Guru nanak was born back and once they freed in of Gurdwara is actually called Gurdwara Reform movement which means taking the gurdwaras back into sick control instead of the government control uh that's when Gandhi you know that thing which you may not know he went to nankana Saab and he sent a telegram the first battle of Indian independence has been won because no native anywhere in South Asia was able to free their places then came the political movement from Punjab if you look at the statistics of Indian independence uh people who died people who sent to life imprisonment kala paniki as they call it people who were hanged 60 hanged or six two percent of the population this is the DNA 80 of the people sent to life imprisonment under one nicobar or Singapore six so this


under one nicobar or Singapore six so this is where political activism is born from shovel you can paint whatever picture you want we are listening to our ideology from the guru which believes in freeing things so so first they freed the gurdwaras then they work towards whether you were bhagat singhs of the time whether you were in these things of the world atheist but you know if you read his articles he says everything I've learned is from a grandfather and these who are fighting right now and hanged by the British it is according to because of what they have done and it was during Holi so let me invoke it you know he's coming right right now on the holy day bhagat Singh wrote this editorial in the Hindi paper if India ever becomes free it will be because what babbarakalis are doing in Punjab fighting the British and he writes that editorial so this is what I'm saying is early 20th century this is not far distant we don't even tell these


is not far distant we don't even tell these narratives right now yeah yeah you know which is why honestly there is a change in the internet narrative where uh a lot of young Indians are feeling a lot of gratitude towards the Sikh Community yeah for the protection honestly that the Sikh Community has given the rest of India and follow sense of warriorship I don't know if I'm finding the right words honestly but I know that the emotion was conveyed but there is a narrative like this so I I must admit that you know I left as a very young man I'm gonna give a personal angle to this now because you just invoked a feeling right and a memory 84 happened I was here I was 11 and a half years old and I remember what happened in jhansi and what happened in Punjab because I was actually in Punjab during June and November I was this is when attack on Golden Temple and genocidal Campaign which now Indian courts have finally accepted


genocidal Campaign which now Indian courts have finally accepted including a Delhi Court I was very angry young man at 12 you remember everything I remember who protected us too you know I am here sitting here because not my next door neighbor but the guy said who lived this third house down bhagwan Das because he took us into his house I would have been dead that day you know mob mentalities many things happen right sorry I'm cutting you feel free to like share the experience just so there's a lot of young listeners give them context so things happened in 84 there's a reaction from the government and the people I don't I'll share this part right so I am a younger young man and I have a perspective on what has happened I don't know what to do with it in fact for the next 10 years you know when I left this country I said I'm never going to come back I could have been that guy who picks up the AK-47 I mean that's the honest truth I


AK-47 I mean that's the honest truth I was very angry as to what had happened at the same time when I came back here like I came back I think in 96 or 97 after going through my engineerings and learning dealing with my own trauma I'm like you know what I'm I'm gonna be in education I gotta channelize this anger you know I have to deal with the conscience of what has happened of Indian conscience because my friends are Hindus too it's not about a Hindu sick thing that's the narrative which plays out it's not it really is a government thing and sick DNA things like that from Guru nanak period onwards doesn't matter who's at the center or the power centers is what I mean and you know when I came back I had to share that I had no reason to go back to jhansi I've landed in Delhi in 96 because I wanted to go study about languages of Guru grantha but I took the train I went to jhansi


but I took the train I went to jhansi for a day to meet bhagwan Das because I know I'm alive because of him I know what they did to him next day in the market people were not very happy with them that he protected us but that's a human issue right what I'm sharing with you is then it took me 10 plus years just to think about what to do with this you know you have to channelize your angers and then I realize look hatred is never the thing we talk about this but it's you go through your own journey of it I didn't hate India or Hindus in fact sometimes people ask me you know do you hate India I'm like no how can I do that I don't think any sick can there's no such thing but you must understand what has happened and how there hasn't been a reparation there hasn't been a discourse on how to correct it and any psychologist will tell you even when you lose in a breakup in a bad breakup


you lose in a breakup in a bad breakup between you know even as a girlfriend boyfriend and if it's ugly breakup a violent one you need help you know it must be addressed so that addressing kind of Consciousness hasn't happened but sick narrative believes in that sick narrative is never about vengeance no guru guru Gran Sab doesn't even have the word badla I know some sex use it but it's because they're angry but Guru grantha's language has the word justice in it now and that's why six are very big on it every time it doesn't matter which country they live in they'll become politically active because they read Barney and Barney says connect with the Divine always fight for justice in America I'm just connecting the Lord you know the the 100 years ago in America there's a sick man who goes all the way to Supreme Court three times U.S Supreme Court fighting to be recognized as a citizen of America bhagat Singh thinned is his name


of America bhagat Singh thinned is his name he was a soldier and a spiritualist who wrote books on things he went to represent America as a soldier even there people said things you were like no I should be a citizen how come only whites are allowed to vote so that's in the DNA the DNA comes from Shabbat Guru granthav and it asks us to fight for justice regardless of the circumstances and I like to say justice is not just us this is why six don't have an issue doing that for others that's how we are trained that's how we are trained but when you're fighting your own battles and reparation hasn't happened internally then then you become small so you talk about smaller things I think my community is going through some of that because that that addressing there is a whole Battle of trauma in memory and it is going on I think it is addressing some of it but it needs a larger conversation to be addressed would you like to have the


conversation to be addressed would you like to have the larger conversation right now a little bit because this is a youth oriented show sure and people are all yours honestly they're a good and bad people in every Faith No I I I subscribe to that yeah I'm interested in you know the worst of the people yeah they also have a conscience man it's how we approach in the right circumstance in the right conversation things can be powerful yeah uh I'd actually like to know and I don't think I've met a sick who's as uh capable as you are in terms of speaking up for the community because of your understanding of the faith of the history and I know that you have knowledgeable multiple subjects it's also why I'm asking you and what is the word of the community right now in terms of your saying there's unaddressed things I'd actually like to know what uh you feel is unaddressed on a public platform like this sure sick Community you know the we can't go back too far


Community you know the we can't go back too far but let's say since 47 there have been issues there were promises made by Congress all Indian National Congress not the congress party of today which represented India they never got fulfilled people don't realize I already know these things look I grew up writing you know father of the nation essays just like anyone else in this country and it is my formative years in college when I'm dealing with my own learning and getting rid of my anger but channelizing into I realize what are the issues you know and there are actual unaddressed issues even yesterday I'll be honest you know I was a new sitting in a plane I picked up a newspaper scanning through it and I'm looking reading a column Swami Onyx you know I'm sure you're aware of it it's calling for people like APS girl and beard Singh to be brought back to Punjab I'm like seriously those were serious human rights violations from every angle so you'll have to give a little


from every angle so you'll have to give a little context sure I'm saying so Punjab went through militancy period and during militancy there were several human rights con violations they're unaddressed National Human Rights Commission National not just Punjab has so many cases spending as to what happened with the six in Punjab the rajya Sabha members are non-sick ones son has stood there in the Parliament and said how come we don't know more about June 84 the attack when it happened on Darbar sub complex six have been talking about it why is government not coming up and saying what really happened so grievances have to do with you know Punjab issues riparian water issues they show up in the news with a very different tint but they are pending there's whole 84 things when attack happened sure there are people who disagreed with it but you know one is a state's responsibility is the community expecting an official apology from the government there have been apologies but I have my


the government there have been apologies but I have my own take and Community has never accepted them by the way because they are you Google today what is a genuine apology that has never happened there are issues there are people on National political scene even today who have been cited by non-six as directing the violence again we are not saying you're saying come on you know it's on your face right now and this is from a community you know who has been called gaddar so many times you know dude six have done everything for India six don't hate India this is a wrong narrative we wouldn't have Endeavor it wasn't for six honestly you know who sat there a Muslim writer has written that not even a Hindu writer his name is I want to give you the direct line I went to locate him as descendants in Lahore he wrote that he wrote it in the context of because Guru Gobind Singh fought with the atrocities of some Muslims who were converting India


atrocities of some Muslims who were converting India forcefully right so this is not anti-muslim sentiment because the Muslim guy wrote himself he and he in Praise of Guru Gobind Singh and he writes that is so you know what we have done is we are married about Hindu Muslim or a mogul or a Hindu Hill Chief rajas it's nothing like that that's when you create oversimplification because you don't want to deal with issues so it's called diversions right I mean and kindergarten teachers do this all the time when you don't want to engage with something you divert their attention towards something else that's what we keep doing so Sikh Community has legitimate grievances in fact Ambassador Casey Singh uh though you know people may know him he's a former Ambassador he wrote a column on this he's like Indian external Affairs Ministry keeps saying kalistan word on certain conversation diaspora 6 are doing this okay they're doing whatever they're doing what have we done to repair that's


they're doing what have we done to repair that's the question at a state level right there always will be varieties of opinion on everything what I do wish to say is that I know 200 that at least people my age and younger and maybe a little older as well I'm 93 bonds I would go up to like people born in the 80s and 90s there's a very deep sense of gratitude towards the sick Community yeah especially when you talk about Urban centers I can't speak or small town India because I'm not from small town no there is there is that's where our conversation started I actually saw that in last two years more if I may say this I'm a very Avid Reader and uh I observe a lot I I read a lot I watch a lot even the things I don't like because you know you have to see where the conversations are taking place I can tell you nothing sick community did as a PR or as a work with the government change the image of the six since 84.


the government change the image of the six since 84. nothing did and you I don't know if you know the government in 84 had hired a company to do a negative campaign on sex globally it's called redefusion which became rediffmail eventually yes it was from Bombay I'm very aware of it I have those documents which I have seen as in the same company became rediff rediffmail.com yeah but it was used to be redefusion that level of campaign was run against the six okay six have been trying right in multiple ways nothing was working you know what changed no sick political party did anything no sick organization did anything the individual response in last two years every Union thinks there was no leadership in Farmer's protests and stuff right take the politics aside for I'm just normal image actually an image and India changed for the first time since 84. because what India saw on average sick and the Indian said whatever the politics might be that aside so and that's the sex story by the way that's why


that's the sex story by the way that's why I'm mentioning it six never used to talk about what they do and who they are we just did it others talked about it that's part of the humility culture which was presented from Guru name we're not going to talk about our own story what do you think about the narrative now as a sick I have trouble with it I have trouble with the narrative from the Sikh Community now we tell the world who's XR that's why if you notice when you ask me I try to go back to the gurus or the gurbani our job is to become a lover a warrior who's a lover as well right just to call us Warriors is a very problematic and I'll tell you why one of the most famous images of six in the post group period is Baba deep Singh The Headless Warrior fighting to defend Golden Temple complex now what people don't know he did that at the age of 82. from 24 to 82 he's


the age of 82. from 24 to 82 he's a scholar at the age of 24 he comes to meet Guru Gobind Singh he gets trained by him he becomes a scribe he is interpreting the text he becomes not just a primary text but the secondary text but he's equally prepared to fight and the world had never seen a scholar can fight like this but look what sick narrative has done that made him Justified it's called a warrior now we are not Warriors we are poets we are lovers who can also fight so the sick narrative really is I don't decide what I will do this is based out of gurbani right Guru grantha my work is I should this is a there's a professor puran Singh writer he writes this in English so I'll just quote him he says you know when I was not in love I thought I was in love with the Divine I was very active but now I've actually gone deeper in myself what I realize is I don't