appearing on podcasts can you keep that safe I am it's with me okay like very it's very dear so um what is happening in the world and why am I on the point yeah oh why oh okay I'll tell you where this question comes from uh I would not have dared to do podcasts like this even three years ago four years ago I just felt like audiences weren't ready right uh the questions that are coming up and the questions that are being accepted my audience is now a different post the pandemic plus we're seeing war in the world missing earthquakes in the world this is not a normal decade what is happening and where are we going where is the human race going saddest news is that there are cracks appearing in yoshimat yes right now these cracks if they extend to badri what will happen so what has happened is human beings have misused nature environmentally it's in a very bad shape you can make highways to go to badrinath but that's not everything


to go to badrinath but that's not everything the ecosystem in the Himalayas is so sensitive and so kind of it sits on a fault line right so we have to be very careful with this it's not just moving highways okay I understand it's easier for people to go they say oh there are highways and Switzerland but switzerlands elves don't sit on a fault hmm uh so I have a feeling that now people seeing this happening floods sea levels are rising eyes bugs are melting cruelty in human beings in general is increasing all kinds of things are of course there is one side where spiritual yeah so I think the young person also has begun to think because the future belongs to the young began to think that this is not everything there must be something more to it like spiritual definitely because we in India are lucky because we're even exposed to it for so many years which may not be the case with other people so people have begun to think is there


other people so people have begun to think is there something more than this is this all there is to are we going to die suddenly after an earthquake or something happening how many people died in Turkey recently right so all these disasters are a pointer towards saying well this is not everything there is something more than this which which can never be created or destroyed um so when young people begin to look into this and they are searching for it podcasts like yours are important and so I agree to come for this because I I want to provide some kind of a link to these people they're wandering around here and there had your master told you that a difficult time will come yes he did and many of the things he said are happening now and that time I used to think that maybe many somethings will happen some may not happen but many things which he said are happening sea level rising when he said that I couldn't believe it at that time he said the ice in


believe it at that time he said the ice in Antarctica will melt he said there will be earthquakes in the Himalayas I said it is a sacred place he said yeah but it is still a physical system can happen today this thing and he also said which is a positive thing that young will get interested in spiritual matter this is a very important prostitute take he said the young people will also get interested in spiritual matters and this is important to prevent disasters in future he said they are the people going to take over next this world and it's good that they go with this understanding and background which is why I also try to concentrate on the young I go to satsangs when I see more young people I'm really happy because I think I'm doing my job he also said since you are on the subject that one day thousands of people will be listening to you so get ready for it have substance to talk to them is this signed off as a difficult decade for humans yes


signed off as a difficult decade for humans yes the 20s difficult decade for human but once you cross this we will come out better it's a it's a Reformation purification does India have a very very big role this decade India is a very important role in this decade not as people say just on the economic front and so on but also from the point of view of Spiritual Awakening and understanding now when you say spiritual don't uh equated only with religious okay when I say spiritual looking into the source of things looking into the source of the outer world as well as the souls of the inner world these are very scientific things and in our tradition in India the spiritual content is so good that one could look into this and find answers you know Vedic mathematics for instance today the computer runs on one and zero right who invented the concept of zero Junior hmm yeah so I know somebody who is I don't totally agree many things with him is a very hostile dogs person good man


with him is a very hostile dogs person good man head of a or what and so on many people don't know that this man they think that oh he is a enormous so he's talking like this 28 books on Vedic mathematics he is author because you want to come on a podcast I'm sure I don't know unless you go what such things are part of our Eternal tradition and it is important that we talk about it now the world is beginning to realize also see how many foreigners are coming and searching for various things here ah I don't know whether I should ask you this question or not or can I ask you this question because I've actually asked a lot of military men this off camera is the world gearing up for a World War type situation according to you uh luckily World War will not be allowed to happen even begin somehow they will put an end to it because if a World War happens there is always going to be nuclear Wars nobody can afford nuclear


to be nuclear Wars nobody can afford nuclear so I don't think this will happen okay but the situation may look like it's going towards them which is a good sign we should start changing from here I'm a little you know thrown off because of this sorry I should have should not have given it till the last time the subject came up so I was no I I mean I really appreciate it one thing I'll be very raw and honest with you about okay uh I I meet a lot of 13 and 14 year olds who've begun watching the show now which I find strange why nice I've been doing this job for eight years and I've always given these videos not the podcast I used to create videos before the podcast I just give it my 200 effort but only eight years down the line now I'm reaching out to much larger audiences right and the reason they get into the show is because of the videos related to ghosts and Horrors and I won't lie I'm doing those


Horrors and I won't lie I'm doing those episodes in order to reach out to a wider audience though in my heart I'm doing it for episodes like this we talk about higher Concepts right yesterday I met a group of 14 year olds very well dressed and cool guys you know um and I went to them and I was like what videos do you watch and assume they'd say fashion videos they were like no we watch your spiritual stuff I was like you're 13 years old you're 14 years old why did but what makes you watch the spiritual stuff uh but then that was a good sign for me as well uh now the question I'll ask you is the horror relationship stuff all right yeah for for actually gripping more 13 14 year olds are these guys Advanced Souls like the group of kids because they know way more than what we knew at 13 14. yeah the young ones who are coming now some have come some are coming even the generation younger than me they're all some of them


generation younger than me they're all some of them at least are mature Souls who have come for a purpose uh they have a but even the IQ no is much better than when we were that age yeah not you I uh so which is a good sign which means we are evolving we are getting human beings now at one time the evolving meant uh scientific material economic now we are moving out from the frontal lobe civilization into something different that parts of the brain which look into these matters are activated in many young people so they will ask questions there I have one at home now who looks very curious but I think he's going to ask me these questions after a while I have a grandson now who's two years old and the his common word he uses anything is no and recently only he had started learning to say yeah so till now he's been saying no so when I look at him I see that the mind is very inquisitive it's not because it's my grandmother it's that I've


not because it's my grandmother it's that I've seen many such young people yesterday I met a young girl who told her mother hey she should start meditate and you know how old she is yesterday she was there at the at the marriage had gone for a wedding four and a half years where does it come from in the head it's stored somewhere yes so and I'm saying this in the beginning when I used to go for this we have sibir which means retreat in different places it's a two and a half day retreat um and uh at the end I give kriya so we have a stipulation that below the age of 12 we don't give clear some years before from four years three years ago people started bringing kids 12 years old so I think they're too smart they just passed well you said 12 is okay and this is increasing now because the kids are selling their mom and father we also want to take care of why only you this is never happened before I'm relating it


this is never happened before I'm relating it to what you said yes group of youngsters who said we are listening to spiritual videos what the hell you think because at that age yeah normally one wouldn't have been looking at that yeah so the new generation oil boil on one hand is one set which is a little bit too destructive in a sense this is also another set coming up which is very creative in this matter Geniuses I think they will balance we had a very Advanced Tantra practitioner on the show and I feel his presence on the show his name is rajaji nandi he came for two reasons one kind of a similar reason to why you came to talk about these things on a public platform finally the weird thing is he came on Kal bear of jayanti came on that day and he recorded like five incredible episodes with us and people have really lost their minds about those episodes because the kind of stuff he said the internet in general doesn't have that kind of content uh two he


general doesn't have that kind of content uh two he shifted my path okay and he answered so many of the questions other people have not been able to answer there have only been two people who've been able to answer these things precisely and that's you and him his name is rajashi nandi uh I want to ask you about Tantra and where it fits into the spiritual path my reading of it is that it's not for everyone firstly it does have a fierce aspect but if you're guided in it gradually it makes your path even faster but that's not exactly why you should go into it uh would you like to highlight Tantra a little bit because when I told my mother that I've started doing some mantras she's like what is all this you first of me if it doesn't work ghosts so now you're getting into Tantra but I don't look at it as a negative thing you know somewhere along the line This Tantra has acquired a very bad name hmm normally because people associate Tantra only


bad name hmm normally because people associate Tantra only with tagoris or people who live in this Machines of people who drink and have all kinds of oranges and this is the picture presented in Tantra but really Tantra is not just this is look first we must understand the word yantra mantra Tantra Indra is a diagram Tantra is a diagram Mantra is the sound that activates that machine also means a machine you know that could a crystal like that be a yandra could be an object object but it should have some signal by which it can attract forces symbol that is called the yantra okay a diagram okay and Mantra is what activates the energy inside and Tantra is a combination of both um okay now the meaning of now you should also understand when you say Tantra traditionally there are two parts one is called the kawalachara or the left hand part and the other is the same two parts he practiced the right hand part liquor is not used none of the Pancha makaras are


is not used none of the Pancha makaras are used you know what happens yes they're not used because they are all produced within the body through meditation and some tough part of our beliefs that human beings most of our us are categorized as pashu which means still animals we cannot direct give up everything and suddenly go to High spiritual levels which is only few talented people or people with that background can do what about the rest though they said enjoy and move forward enjoyment foreign you enjoy internally when your Kundalini is awakened where does it awaken from from the muladhara where is the muladhara just behind your reproductive audience it is the same energy which flows downwards that one has sexual enjoy the tant one who really knows Tantra has learned how to activate this energy and make it also Ascend upwards sometimes it can happen also through an act which is why this bad name has come to Tantra but that has to be done very carefully with proper guidance otherwise


to be done very carefully with proper guidance otherwise you will just end up like any other physical act one has to learn how to do K3 one should know how to virtually how to not allow the energy to go but to hold it and so I made it elaborate subject what I'm trying to say there are two parts in Tantra left-handed pattern left-handed path makes use of the five makaras because they believe human beings cannot give up everything and go there only through enjoyment and then slowly slowly moving forward meaning punch 5 M's m uh alphabet it is machia mamsa madhu it is and forget one more it's basically grains grains grain fish meat alcohol sex yes so what they're trying to do is using this to sublimate the mind not to remain there but to sublimate the mind so this is the path to kawlacharya is also called all the cows in Kashmir come from that you see so but that does not mean that it is merely a kind of a what


mean that it is merely a kind of a what is it called partying kind of thing Tantra it's a very serious Affair and if proper teacher is there one can definitely cry now since we are on the subject if you want I want you to be clear about a picture of Tantra which will take many such episodes maybe so I would suggest that fortunately there is a beautiful text which has been translated into English it's written by somebody called author Avalon who also wrote the sap in power weapon power is about the Kundalini he wrote The Serpent part which is actually a translation of purnananda yogis sat chakra nirupana description of the sixth chakras so after Avalon was his name actually is a John Rudolph this is good for everybody to understand for the viewers especially uh he was a judge of the Calcutta High Court he was an Englishman was so interested in Tantra that later on he resigned from the high court and spent time with the tantrix in Bengal


and spent time with the tantrix in Bengal is a very good Center of that so studying on waste of studying based on studying the textbooks of Tantra more than the Practical aspects he wrote an excellent book or introduction to Tantra I think you should read it introduction yeah introduction to dantra all right and a few other books which are technical no need to go into that and such is the serpent power these two books this will give a complete picture of what Tantra is and what are the textbooks you can rely on for understanding Tantra so that one gets free of the idea that Tantra is just ghosts and goals and you know um you know because I know a lot of the listeners are listening to this episode for that reason one thing I learned from the episode where rajashi shows that when your path moves forward there will be forces which will try to pull you back of course and of course these forces can be in other people's minds and hearts where they doubt you


people's minds and hearts where they doubt you when they say no no you won't be able to do it absolutely but it can also actually be darker forces sometimes it could be darker forces influencing those people to uh pull you backwards uh I want to know about this whole dark aspect which is kind of the anti-thesis to spiritual growth can I say something the moment you begin to think or apply your mind to this their presence become stronger it's better to use other things and positive things so that they don't have time to enter okay would you not like to talk about it for the same reason yeah okay understood this Babaji taught me when you discuss these matters they're all there uh come out of that discuss about the higher good beings and they're not there okay um fine I will ask you the one burning question then that I have saved up till the end uh am I doing something wrong in like my life by like talking all these dark things on the internet that I'm


all these dark things on the internet that I'm I'm saying the principle the basic principle is that when you are talking about them their presence is there but here you need not when I'm there which one is good out you had to deal with these things yes say Okay sometimes I have written it also in my biography in some places I've mentioned it I had to put up a tough fight sometimes even now no a lot not no they don't come near from Far because there are already higher beings with you yeah okay and it's actually fight between not only because of having higher beings but now they look at me as a hair being someday uh uh one last question for you so on today's episode uh what advice do you have for me I think you should continue to do what you're doing good work apart from that you also develop a routine of personal sadness for yourself okay some kind of person I think you might be doing but in case you are not then better to start some quiet meditation


you are not then better to start some quiet meditation some sadhana I'm sure I would be called in kriya yoga you should do that every day so that tomorrow you would probably understand things better even when you talk to others who are in this field yeah and for your own personal spiritual growth other than that this is a wonderful thing that you do this conversation yes because lots of people get to know things which they wouldn't have got to know on internet is this also a sort of service I think it's a service okay certainly this is from my point of view look I can talk I can have such songs but that won't harassment you reaches this since we are talking together now how many people will know about right so that way you're doing a service to Babaji about just to me you're getting me to do my work better actually because sometimes you need questions to shape up of course you've got thoughts you should always have questions open you know this idea that you should not ask


open you know this idea that you should not ask questions you should not doubt I think they came much later in the beginning even the first Hymn of creation Ends by saying perhaps he on high nose or maybe he knows not without doubt and without questioning you cannot explore anything um one last question though for you uh there is a strong desire on my heart to like almost now start giving up on like a material life this has just come out of nowhere probably over the last year maybe I saw like a peak of like materialism and what I mean by materialism is the presence of everything you know everything that I've hoped for when I my career began I wanted money I wanted Fame I wanted public validation experienced all three there is genuinely a part of me that now wants to leave and uh just focus on sarna and that will mean stopping the show perhaps that will mean stopping youtubing leaving Fame can you can you like the a good guitar stay in the


can you like the a good guitar stay in the fertile field and continue with your spirit okay this is all like you know so consider it that you're doing something good and that you're not doing it only for name Fame and so on the name Fame always necessary to make it popular and so on now you don't have to do any such thing you just do what comes to your mind actually you'll be doing good so why would you quit and then go in it's a question of mindset understood and Circumstance thank you uh just I mean thank you to you thank you to the hyping forward gave you uh the answers in this one thank you the high beings and gave me the questions that's all I'm just very grateful that I get to interact with people like yourself uh and I am when will you meet again yes I'm hoping to see you very soon so I hope I did Justice through this conversation I think so you should come sometime I intend you should do that there's a


sometime I intend you should do that there's a quiet place yeah there's a lot of like spent one or two days quietly you don't have to interview nothing or maybe I do that is up to you but even otherwise you can just come and spend some quiet time no see what we are doing yeah uh there's a lot of turmoil right now and one thing I've noticed is life is a continuous process of seeing turmoil and then seeing phases of just peace so uh very important conversation for me just I want to say thank you and so many other things that are back into that one thank you thank you so that was the episode for today the space that you see me recording and especially if you're seeing the video version of this podcast this is our interim space because our current space is being renovated I do believe that when you have this kind of a conversation with a spiritual Master like shriya if you're talking to them for so long if you're extracting their knowledge if you even


long if you're extracting their knowledge if you even simply invite them into a space the entire space gets blessed the entire space is energy changes you know I'd go as far as saying that when it comes to some people who are this spiritually Advanced like shriyam you know you listen to their podcasts when you hear their voice there is a certain amount of energy and calm that would spread in your room if you're listening to this on speaker in your mind if you're listening to this on earphones or headphones that's the true Joy of creating these episodes for you lots more to learn from the Himalayan master definitely going to be doing a Hindi episode very soon I do recommend that you guys check out our Hindi podcast it's just as spiritual it's just as flavorful but a tad bit more emotional make sure you go check that out make sure follow us on Spotify every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world finally if you wish to


anywhere else in the world finally if you wish to begin your own meditation journey level my meditation app is now live on the App Store on the Play Store I've linked it down below beginners for intermediates for advanced meditation practitioners this is where it's at lots of love to you guys I'm sending you all my true wish for your spiritual growth I hope that these podcasts keep fueling you lots of love [Music]


American presidents from Clinton then the bush and then the Obama three presidents each of them served eight years or 25 years almost 20 quarter Century pampered China built it up thinking that if we give enough investment they become rich then they'll become like us but they became rich and started hating us rather than becoming like us that is what the Americans got wrong about China okay and we are paying the price in fact I wouldn't be surprised let me make a prediction Modi becomes president retire as prime minister and become president there's nothing that says you can't become president the Indian constitution gives president a lot of authority you mean right now if after PM modi's term as a PM yes he becomes president there are dormant rules which can be applied and then you can kind of shift power from the PMC to the presidency yes forever we haven't done a geopolitic special in a very long time because I was waiting to do a special with Rajiv Malhotra so he


do a special with Rajiv Malhotra so he gave us one of our most iconic geopolitical podcasts that one was all about China and a history about geopolitics this one is about the present and the future of our Earth he's made some extreme claims in this particular podcast and what's also to be noted is that Rajiv sir has a career built in the world of artificial intelligence so in the age of chat GPT you'd be surprised and shocked to know how chat GPT will play a role in the geopolitical game of India USA and China so whether you're an Indian or whether you're a viewer from another country I promise you there's a lot to gain from rajiv's perspectives he's dedicated his entire life to the world of geopolitics the world of science and it's only in 2023 where I believe that this man is getting the recognition that he deserves so without further Ado this is Rajiv Malhotra on the runway show remember guys for more episodes like


the runway show remember guys for more episodes like this follow us on Spotify for Spotify exclusive every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world my meditation app level is now live on the App Store on the Play Store we've linked it down below make sure you go check it out and this is the beginning of an incredible geopolitic special with Rajiv Malhotra thank you [Music] welcome back to the ranveer show in person how are you sir wonderful wonderful to be in your city last time we did it online but I think the chemistry is better because we can see each other's eyes yes sir uh you gave us one of our most epic episodes especially in that phase I was just starting to learn about the world of geopolitics and it was an honor to speak to you I feel you've dedicated your entire life to multiple subjects geopolitics being one uh let me also tell you that out of almost 500 guests I wouldn't say


that out of almost 500 guests I wouldn't say you're the most challenging but in terms of a knowledge Bank you're probably the thickest I've ever seen and I'm not just saying that thick as in thick skinned or ah maybe both okay uh just there's a gentleman called abhiji Tower I'm sure you know of course so you and him are probably at the same level in terms of a knowledge bank and it's a dream for a podcaster to be speaking to either of you guys so welcome to Mumbai sir how are you thank you wonderful just came two days ago had a huge event yesterday and some more events in the next three days okay how are you feeling lately about the world well you know the world the interesting thing is uh one of the things I do a little different from some of the other guys you named is that I try to build a model which is which can be used for predicting and forecasting so idea being to be able to tell what's going to


idea being to be able to tell what's going to happen rather than react Karo what do you mean build a model sir so Bill you know when you look at what causes what are the causes that produce a certain effect then when you understand that behavior of people of societies you can say what is where are they going what's next so lot of things that are happening as a predictor I'm very happy because a lot of things I wrote in my books are happening okay but if they're not good for India in that sense I'm not happy really so some some things are going on which are not very good but we had predicted them so it's good news in the sense that our prediction is correct but it's bad news in the sense that these are not very good things for India you know when you are using the word prediction uh a part of me is saying to myself that is this artificial intelligence that you're speaking about because not many people know you actually are an AI professional yes


many people know you actually are an AI professional yes I studied AI in my in I went to the US did my computer science in that time I was doing AI USA money I was very basic okay we were trying to understand how handwriting you can write an a can we recognize it in the computer if you're speaking can we understand it now it's very obvious and very simple AI can understand faces also but in those days it was not the case we were not even able to write a program to play chess and beat an average human now the computer chess can beat a world champion so AI has come way ahead okay we never in my life I never imagined that this will really happen in your predictions is it the AI of machines or the AI of Rajiv Malhotra AI of machines has far surpassed our expectation we thought Kabhi hoga but you know it will take a long time but it's I'm talking about 50 years because I was I came to the US 52 years ago


I was I came to the US 52 years ago as a student to study these things and what we predicted has come out and surpassed also okay um I love that I can speak to you about the progress in the world of science along with speaking about geopolitics because correct me if I'm wrong so will AI reach a point where it actually surpasses the speed at which human scientists are discovering science further do you think that's a possibility yes okay that is a possibility yes so there's a difference between intelligence and Consciousness I want people to know that yeah Consciousness you know you're conscious I'm conscious of myself intelligence is you know you can have a car driving on its own which is not conscious a driverless car is not conscious it's just a robot but it can behave like an Italian person so artificial intelligence is basically mimicking human intelligence but it is not conscious so I think the machines will never become conscious but they will become more and more intelligent and able to discover new things


more and more intelligent and able to discover new things able to write like chat GPT able to write like a good author able to produce art music able to do an interview understand the nuances of the other fellow even understand his body language and able to ask questions accordingly so AI is going to replace a very large amount of human work okay to understand this point further I'd like for you to attempt a definition of Consciousness because I've always got different definitions and I believe that in the world of science there's no proper definition of what Consciousness even is so Consciousness is my awareness that I am Rajiv and I'm conscious of myself uh that is called first person meaning reflecting on myself second person is I'm talking to you you and I which a robot can also do it can be pretend and third person is my understanding of concepts of ideas of knowledge of you know facts which also a machine can do a machine can be full of intelligence in the sense of data and it


full of intelligence in the sense of data and it can also have interpersonal skills but a machine is not conscious of itself that I am a being I'm a machine and you know it doesn't have what we'd call Shakti it doesn't have pran it doesn't have life so a lifeless machine can externally behave like it were a proper human being would you like to Enlighten the audience a little bit on this whole General artificial intelligence and what's the other one I feel so the this whole basically people are saying is there'll be something called Singularity Singularity means that now it is going to surpass equal or everything humans can do and surpass it that may happen but you know my concern is even before that happens and rather than worrying about that debate even ordinary artificial intelligence which already happening is going to wipe out a large number of jobs the country that wins AI Will Conquer other countries really and and China may do that the U.S and China when the Industrial Revolution started this


U.S and China when the Industrial Revolution started this is the new Industrial Revolution so when the Industrial Revolution started those who had that industry defeated all those who did not have and made them into colonies so there were two countries in England and France that had industry they were fighting each other for colonies so now it is U.S and China doing what England in France did but economic colonies and stuff economic colonies political colonies even intellectual colonies they put their own ideology language the British put their language here French put their language and ideology onto the Africans and various other countries so when we are calling whoever whoever colonizes different countries between Russia between USA and China they're competing I will take over the economy will take over turn those people into like uh you know basically slaves or colonized people and this is going to be pretty bad how far are we from that reality I think it will start by 2030 the the colonization of the World by USA and China will start okay and right now


by USA and China will start okay and right now they're fighting each other to see who who's ahead like Britain and France yeah I think this is why it's important to study history yes because in the story of human beings patterns repeat always in the earliest era of known this was a competition between the Roman Empire and the Greek Empire in which the Romans beat the Greek after many hundreds years of fighting and then the Roman Empire expanded and Christianity expanded and they took over they became the West they became known as the west then later on it was Britain and France you know in the 1700s 1800s now it is U.S and China so you have two competing Powers not only hating each other but wanting to take but their competition is over who takes over the world that's what they're about you live in the U.S yes but you're okay talking about these things of course I that's what I do why not but I mean it's a free society and people talk about it do you


a free society and people talk about it do you get for this yeah I get for it but I I also get praised for it because there are a lot of Americans who also are concerned about it a lot of Americans are concerned about the future of their own country about are we losing out to China have we pampered China you see what happened is American presidents from Clinton then the bush and then the Obama three presidents each of them served eight years so 25 years almost 20 quarter Century pampered China built it up thinking that if we give enough investment they become rich then they'll become like us but they became rich and started hating us rather than becoming like us that is what the Americans got wrong about China okay and we are paying the price yeah um you know you compared this phase to the Industrial Revolution Phase I'd like for you to briefly explain exactly what happened in the industrial revolution and I'd also like for you to explain who the third fourth fifth


for you to explain who the third fourth fifth sixth seventh eighth players were yeah so you see in the industrial revolution Britain first with the steam engine they were able to mechanize factories to work better than human labor and then with electricity the electrified Factory so there were two parts to that Revolution and then France came later so this way they were able to compete against any other manufacturing Society until then India was a very top manufacturing Society very rich but they dismantled all the Indian industry turned it into British Industrial Revolution what did we manufacture so we were manufacturing textiles which became the first product that the British started Manufacturing in their industrial Evolution they took our textile and started making in factories with electricity and we didn't have the electricity and the the other one was steel so between steel and textiles they took over a large part of the world economy so we were became a labor and market for their goods now what is going to happen with AI is something


now what is going to happen with AI is something similar algorithms and machines and robots are going to run much of the world but the point is who controls the algorithm it is it is Bill Gates who controls some algorithms it is uh you know Facebook people uh Zuckerberg he controls algorithms it it is people like that there will be a few oligarchs we think oligarchy means Russian but oligarch can be anyone who's so rich that so that through his car Power his money and Technology he's controlling people like dictator would control people but he's not considered a politician he's just sitting behind and through his technology he's controlling the rich and powerful man rich and powerful man so now like this is the return of the East India Company I'm predicting that is the Googles of the world that are like the new East India company and they are going to rule through their technology through their algorithms they're going to control large part of the world and sad thing is our country has welcomed them


world and sad thing is our country has welcomed them rather than and building our own platform like China is building China said we will not use the American platform we'll build our own because it's a strategic asset it's a weapon we want to have our own weapons India the Geo and everybody is bringing in the American platforms and giving them more power so we're bringing in Google Now GPT chat GPT we think it's a favor to us that we can train chat GPT in Marathi Hindi and all that actually the more we train it the more intelligent we're making them about us they're learning to learn to figure us out because we're trading this chat GPT we should be building our own this is a problem why are narratives like this out demo well I think the convenience is to make quick money you got money and the way you make jugar money is you don't think long term you hire a tech person for ten thousand dollars and you rent him out for 30 40 000. we're renting the


him out for 30 40 000. we're renting the brains of our brilliant people we have smart young brilliant technocrats and rather than making Indian technology which belongs the patterns belonging to India we are helping the clients in the foreign countries build their technology with our labor so all these people made their money Infosys and TCS and Mahindra they made their money renting out Indian brains to Americans and make as a middleman making a lot of money we think they are heroes in a sense they have done good they brought money they've created a middle class but in China when they rented out the labor of their Factory workers because they had a factory worker a cheap labor they hired related to Americans to make cheap factories they took half the profit and reinvested it into futuristic technology they into solar into artificial intelligence into a machine learn into this you know fiber optics and into uh Quantum Computing uh in all of these kind of things they invested in we did not we just made quick money uh


in we did not we just made quick money uh you hire somebody and rent them out make a money and enjoy a good life become very rich build a high-rise building all these fancy lifestyle but we did not invest in futuristic Technologies India is very behind a strategic r d okay it's important for these narratives to be out there because as of now on the Indian internet we only have narratives like it's India's decade it's India's next 20 years we are going to be number one but this is the truth so there is a difference between being successful as a consumer and being successful as a producer so you understand being from the film industry the person who is the producer of the movie and whether he's number one is one kind of judgment the other kind of judgment is the consumers who are the big consumers so if we are a consumer Society using American Products are we successful or is America successful when we say we have the largest number of WhatsApp users are we being successful or is


number of WhatsApp users are we being successful or is it Facebook owns a WhatsApp they are the people who own the technology we are using it so we are doing very well bringing in all kind of new technology but also on mostly American Technology we're bringing into all the villages but we are also increasing our dependency on them by doing that just want to highlight a very uh boiled down geopolitical lesson I've learned over the course of all these podcasts which is that if you're rich and if you have the resources you are ahead in the geopolitical game yes of the world yes basically when you are a consumer of these products from America and China you are sending money that you're getting them to be richer and more powerful right therefore they are ahead in the geopolitical game so the economy is that we are buying their technology lot of technology for which we need money and we're buying oil for which we need money so we're renting out our brains but we are renting out our brains to do work


but we are renting out our brains to do work for them building their assets it's like you bring some thousands of workers from a poor Village in Bihar and he comes to Mumbai and he builds high-rise buildings he may send money home and his relatives may be very proud Mumbai he's gone to Mumbai and he's driving cars and all that stuff but he doesn't own those buildings he's making buildings for somebody else he knows zero asset let's kind of break down the maths a little bit here yeah you're basically adding money to your family's bank account yes and you'd assume that if every family in India becomes slightly richer they're in that slightly positive green zone yes the whole country also becomes which which it does it does it does yes absolutely so it's better than not doing it but but China is doing it even better saying we will make money but half of that money the rich man who is the broker because you know one is the consumer laborer the worker making


know one is the consumer laborer the worker making money but then the broker broker who is buying you for 10 000 and selling you for 30 40 000 he's making a lot of money and he's the guy who we are giving and saying this guy must be famous because he's so rich he ought to have a responsibility to reinvest in long-term technology to create to look for what will happen in five ten years rather than just making money today again this is why when I enjoy these podcasts with you two I find it slightly challenging because I have to keep boiling it down uh what I was saying about the mathematics in terms of there are greens there are prophets you see in every Indian family India generally will become richer but what we are investing our time and energy towards is making America or China actually much richer the greens on that side are jumping on faster okay and then you know we have to buy the technology back because we don't have all these Technologies all


back because we don't have all these Technologies all the everything that we are using in this technology is made in America made in China Hardware comes from China all these phones won't forget and they're using to spy on us the surveillance they're doing and all the software and all the networks and all are made in USA made by May owned by USA often Made in India so you know when we say make in India that's not good enough it should be owned in India we have to be the Malik of the technology not just make it for someone else no you gotta break down this point so you may be making a film but somebody else is the owner of the film you are making a film as an employee of a company and you may be a brilliant filmmaker but you don't own that film it belongs to movie belongs to someone else so I'm talking about we have to become the owner of this technology okay and not just the labor helping them make it okay correct me if I'm wrong


them make it okay correct me if I'm wrong I'm gonna try kind of encapsulating what you said using produce your own technology yes because in today's Industrial Revolution or AI revolution technology is the weapons technology is the means forward yes you're saying we should keep it at home we build it here and we keep it here we keep making it more powerful because those two big players are getting very powerful because of the same logic and they are using our brains okay they're using our brains to make themselves Rich okay and so this is the problem that I think Indian policy makers have not figured out let's boil it down to a very everyday level we have a lot of college students listening to this a lot of parents listening to this kind of a podcast is your message to them and this is my message try not sending your kids abroad to study probably that's one aspect of it like kind of fuel them into like in India's growth they'll figure out how to make money India's very different now as compared


to make money India's very different now as compared to 10 years ago when I was graduating from engineering College there wasn't this much opportunity so a lot more opportunity now but also uh would you add any other points don't don't purchase Chinese products no I would say that they should put their energy on Indian startups where and don't sell out the startup to an American venture capital A lot of Indians are doing startups but when the startup is successful Google buys it out Microsoft buys it out so because the man gets Rich the entrepreneur gets Rich he sells out I think Indians should not should create the next big Googles and the giants in India and keep the ownership in India and Indian industrialist should fund it Indian industrialists should go and fund the iits to create startups Indian government should fund these we have brains we should be using our brains to create our own technology and own it here okay are people like PM Modi Dr Jai Shankar and Mukesh Ambani thinking along these lines no


and Mukesh Ambani thinking along these lines no uh PM Modi and Jay Shankar are not technocrats so I don't blame them but Mukesh Ambani should be thinking like that and Mahindra should be thinking like that they are not uh they are they are they're looking at what's a business model for them that they can money make money fast within three to five years they're not thinking like the Chinese did what is 10 to 20 years 10 to 15 years from now what's the technology that we ought to invest in now it's good that Geo is starting to invest in 6G which is the next after 5G they are but it's a small amount if they are not anywhere in the top five or ten in that technology so I think the you know as a percentage of GDP India's spend on R D is very small compared to other countries so we are not even statistically even officially we're spending a very small amount on future r d basically science basically science and technology and patterns and discovering


science basically science and technology and patterns and discovering new things okay and this doesn't look likely to change either it doesn't look likely to change because the investment that is an investment where you are not going to get any benefits fast you're going to get benefit it's a different kind of infrastructure like building highways we are doing highways and physical infrastructure also takes years and then you get the benefit we see that r d is a different kind of it's an intellectual infrastructure that you're building you will own it just like you the highway you belong nobody can take it away from you so similarly technology which is made in India for Indians by Indians should stay in India and that that is how we can compete against China okay I give credit to China for being a starting as a very poor country even poorer than India 40 50 years ago and look where it's come basically boils down to different human mentality right cultural mentality yes what would you say China's cultural mentality so first they


would you say China's cultural mentality so first they are able to sacrifice the individual for the sake of the group Chinese are collective whenever you go they behave collectively like one gang kind of together Indian is an individual they fight each other also Chinese will be fight not fighting each other so much they'll be together second is they're able to think long term and sacrifice the short term and they're they're they're their uh philosophy teaches them Obedience of authority confusion philosophy the emperor is like we have bhagwan they have emperor and so they listen now the emperor is President G he's like the emperor they listen to him so then the and then the system of democracy we have means that there's always elections you always have to uh win over people emotionally and if you and piss them off if you will if you piss him off they're not going to vote for you and they're going to just you know go somewhere else so you always have to appease them make


else so you always have to appease them make them happy uh do things that are popular even if it's bad long term you have to do things that are popular whereas China can say okay five years you have to tighten your belt nobody is going to get any benefits that's a that's a Dundalk but five years later we'll all be better off they can force people into things that are good for the long term whereas in a democracy you have to appease people to win elections all the time some heavy duty stuff Mr malova so I I want to you know when we say democracy is good we say that I want to offer you a contrarian View you know you don't run a company on Democracy Mukesh Amani doesn't say I'll take all the factory workers and they will vote what to do you don't run your cricket team on Democracy the captain decides it is I mean you'd never win if you were democracy you would not run a military on a democracy you would not


run a military on a democracy you would not ask all the jawans you know what should be our strategy the military General knows more so in all these competitive domains whether it is industry whether it is sports whether it is military it is not run by democracy but those who have more knowledge who have more expertise they make decisions but in the case of politics we are assuming that the average Indian everybody has equal say the per the very highly knowledgeable person is as much a vote as the person who knows very little so that's a and you know democracy is also not something that with The Vedic system we don't have a democracy the ancient system of Dharma shastra and Earth shastra was not based on Democracy it was based on a king who was a noble King Highly Educated King and he knew what is best for other people so we have to question whether uh Indian constitution has worked or not because Indian constitution also has some issues I think you know a family does not make decisions


I think you know a family does not make decisions on a democracy some people know more I mean some may some may know more about cooking and what's good for your health and they make decisions for the children somebody else may know more about how to make investments and so on you do not say Okay husband wife and three kids and you've gonna sit and vote and all that because people have expertise in something and that expertise ought to be respected so in in our tradition also there were there was ADI card Authority in the in the guru or in a Elder person who knew more about that subject matter and so this idea that 1.4 billion people and based on everybody who's over a certain age suddenly he has the equal right to everybody else there's no logic to it and I think the future of democracies in the world is yet to be it's not unclear whether what will happen because United States which is sort of considered the Bastion of democracy today is in


considered the Bastion of democracy today is in trouble you know internally United States is in trouble there's almost a civil war intellectually going on between the extreme left and the extreme right okay uh we will talk about this we'll expand this thought about America in a separate section yes I actually want to talk a little bit more about democracy yes more from a perspective of if not democracy then what because a lot of people are listening to the podcast and thinking dictatorship he's talking about dictatorship but I don't know if you're talking about dictatorship and I also feel that because of the history of the last 100 years we view dictatorship with a very negative outlook but historically for an extremely macro human perspective could a one leader rule actually be the solution like in the case of Genghis Khan like in the case of I don't know who else has been one leader who's been epic Singapore okay so I would say I would say first of all a presidential system is better


would say first of all a presidential system is better than a parliamentary system for India because in a presidential system you have more stability you vote the elected president directly not through Parliament because if right now if you elect the Parliament and then the parliament elects the government the prime minister then you know what you have is even a small little party has a lot of Leverage a lot of bargaining power because of somebody who's got a few votes can decide between this Coalition and that Coalition and you have a wobbly system they don't have security for the full five-year term and they can't make courageous actions whereas in a presidential system uh little parties don't can't have too much clout because the president is elected directly and you have stability for the entire term I would say that in fact I wouldn't be surprised let me make a prediction I would not be surprised if Modi becomes president uh Modi could become president retire as prime minister


Modi could become president retire as prime minister and become president there's nothing that says you can't become president and as and the the Constitution gives the president enough Authority it has never been used the Indian constitution gives president a lot of authority but it has not been used a strong person who becomes president could make the presidency the center of power and center of decision making you mean right now right now after PM modi's term PM yes he becomes president there are dormant uh rules yes which can be applied yes and then you can kind of shift power from the PMC to the presidency yes forever yeah you not forever during the term of the presidency all right so he could he could say okay I did comply with this thing that after the age 75 or whatever age I want to retire so I'm no longer PM but I've become president he could do that is there nothing that says he couldn't do that okay and as president you have five you have your


okay and as president you have five you have your term secure you cannot be through no part no confidence motion kicked out and all that and you can run the country you can make a lot of policies so this this such a more stable system you can elect the right guy and then you let him be there for a while you don't kick him out and worry about whether he's coming back in 2024 or not you just leave him there for 10 20 years because you need to set this country right it's a hundred year project because we've been ruined colonized for 1200 years colonization is not just British it's also Islamic organization that's another controversial statement but Islam also colonized us they put in a new language they put in new ways of thinking new religion new loyalty to the Middle East countries not to our this is not their bhumi this is not their soil so we have been colonized for 1200 years and to counter that we need a century we need this whole Century to recover ourselves


century we need this whole Century to recover ourselves and that requires leaders who are strong and stable long-term okay before I let you move forward I want you to address all the people who are left leaning or listening to this podcast and about to switch off because they have categorized you as right leaning so I don't really mean left or right I believe that you have to look at the logic I mean I'm left leaning on some issues right leaning on other issues I believe in free enterprise which the right leaning people are supposed to be but I'm very liberal in terms of Rights of human beings I want everybody to have rights I want to and end exploitation I don't want oligarchy I don't I certainly don't want Ultra rich I don't want concentration or wealth concentration of power so in those senses I'm not right-wing I'm more like left wing so I don't believe those categories are very clear or very absolute just keeping India in mind let's make a few National predictions and let's make a


make a few National predictions and let's make a few International geopolitical predictions right keeping uh the Modi government in mind uh first basic question is is the Modi government going to stay in power over most of the next decade I think so yeah exactly very likely I think so I mean no matter what happens I I think that will remain the case and anyone who doesn't think so needs to travel in the Interiors of the country to just understand what the human population is there yeah and I think that in the spirit of helping Bharat people should become more demanding of the Modi government saying that now we are not afraid that you will lose power but we want you to raise go raise yourself to the next level it's no longer okay we've done great in the article 370 we built it the temple we've done a lot of infrastructure but let's we have to change the education policy the ncrt books haven't been changed the upsc exams are still Colonial syllabus we are still teaching


are still Colonial syllabus we are still teaching the wrong things the is people the way they are trained the Foreign Service people the way they are trained is still the old system so the Machinery of government is still in the hands of bureaucrats who are not new kind of people maybe if a small percentage of New Blood has come in but a lot of the thinkers are still of the old God but what would you rather have them think like well I think that for example the education policy should be very different uh another a major flaw in the education policy is while they are very good for stem education science technology engineering math those medicine for Liberal Arts and Humanities they're importing Western human Arts human rights social justice so the the humanities and liberal arts is being widely imported from the West which will bring Western ideas and philosophy which are not conducive to India which will bring Western yes Western social sciences and a lot of the problems we are facing whether it's the BBC government or Wall Street


facing whether it's the BBC government or Wall Street Journal article or somebody accusing us of not having religious freedom whatever it comes from the fact that they're using Western social sciences Western sociology Western models of society whereas we have our own but we are not using those the sociology taught in India is not based on our social thought but based on Western social thought you'll have to break this down further so social thought is like you know like in Natural Sciences you're talking about physics and electrons and how they work how the microphone works that is natural science social science is the science of society how does society work how do people behave how do they work in groups why they fight why they don't fight you know and what constitutes a good Society so all that ideas of society are social sciences broadly speaking but these ideas that we have been taught in India are the result of European thinking European thinking about their society what happened to them they had a feudal system the


to them they had a feudal system the church was a autocratic power they had to fight it so they did not have religious freedom they could not choose you know whether to belong to the church or not so they had they went through a certain experience and the social thought is the result of that experience in Europe we did not have the same experience our experience is different kind of experience so rather than copying the Western social sciences we have to create our own social models which has not been done yet which has not been done which requires Innovation so I think that the hrd ministry is failed hrd Ministry has and the education policy has not been very good for us now they are wanting to bring American and European and Australian universities to set up campuses here which is even worse because they're going to bring all these anti-india the kind of biases on campuses in India and now it will open the floodgates you will have even more people more Indians confused because right here on our soil


more Indians confused because right here on our soil they'll be learning things which are not very good for us at least they have to go overseas to learn these things and not too many people can afford it but still a large number of people uh I will highlight all the snakes and the Ganges stuff soon and that's the core of this podcast for me because I feel it's important for the Indian internet to know about these Concepts also because not too many people read nowadays honestly like reading the amount has just gone uh you know the amount of people reading has reduced which is sad but it is the reality of a technological times so I'm going to not move on to that snakes in the Ganges aspect of this podcast now but I will ask you just your general predictions for our government on a national level and an international level so I think nationally the government will be secure I mean and and you know that's what I consider internationally we have a lot of uh clout not not for


we have a lot of uh clout not not for any other reason than the fact that the other powers are fighting each other and so we are a big player and the indo-pacific geographically the ocean is very important it's very important for China and and India is a huge country that can actually interfere with that Pakistan's only value is its geography Pakistan has rented out his geography first to the Americans then to you know various people now to the Chinese you know but India's geography is very special the way we are located the way physically we're located in the Indian Ocean is very very strategic so India has importance if India were in the corner of the world then it would not be that important so we are over we are kind of underrating the geographical strategic value we have rather than anything else so we have to capitalize on that now the overall geopolitical situation in the world is going to be defined by the competition between us and China that will be the defining company let you move on


that will be the defining company let you move on just explain capitalize on the geographical so you know we have we have a huge Coastline we have we control we can control with the uh the the the Andaman Islands we can control the access between the pathway between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean goes through a very narrow channel Malaysia has it and India India Navy can blockade it and do any all kind of things we can also we have we can project power in the Gulf so when China China is kind of land locked there in the sense that they only have access to the Chinese coast and which is where there's Japan and South Korea and Taiwan and that's why China is fighting to try and capture that but South they really want access to the ocean in their ocean because most of their energy comes in from their raw material from Africa comes in from there and or their exports go through that so this is why Myanmar is very important for them and Pakistan is very important for them


important for them and Pakistan is very important for them and they're through Iran they're building other things so India is kind of like obstructing in the way if India were part of this one belt one thing Road you know it would be bad but China would feel very happy that they have taken over India also so this is a geographical strategic importance of India that it is a country with such a large amount of land see and ports very high quality ports now we are going to build some Port deep deep ports in in the Andaman Islands which is very good so India is a politically militarily and important country in the world and you're saying we're not doing enough from a naval perspective and a sea trade perspective yes I think you know because we have limited Financial Resources we can only we have two aircraft carriers China plans to have 10 aircraft carriers in the next 10 15 years they're going to build one or two every one every couple of years and compete with the US so you're


of years and compete with the US so you're basically saying make your weapons in India and get armed up that's your definition of capitalizing on geography yes drdo should invest a lot of money in buying out young Indian high-tech companies entrepreneurs start some technology in India which has defense applications and civilian applications drdo show has the money they should buy them out they have the expertise to evaluate rather than letting the Google or Amazon or Microsoft buy come out so today what's happening is if you and a bunch of guys start something nice and you are successful it is not Dr do that will buy you out it's I don't know why they don't do that it'll be some foreign guys that'll buy them out so the technology that India needs to develop is many much of it is being done on Indian soil by Indians but we don't own it we just give it away drdo I think is a sleeping giant you know in United States there's something called DARPA which stands for defense Advanced


there's something called DARPA which stands for defense Advanced research project agency DARPA is the inventor of so many things from semiconductors to lasers to fiber optics to internet to uh you know driverless cars to a Quantum Computing so many technological breakthroughs which have military applications defense department funded private sector and academic people to invent these things and the U.S government owns rights to it so this is something we need to do we need a collaboration between drdo the corporate people and universities that are doing research so that the next generation of students are par part of their training is with the latest r d so not only you're learning from textbooks and sitting in class but you're also involved in a project where are the funds going today instead the funds are going to buy the technology rather than make the technology okay got it so rather than giving your money to America or China and fueling their economic and colonization based growth right you basically fuel it at home yeah and if you are if


fuel it at home yeah and if you are if you are send spending a lot of Labor our labor to help them out rather than just making money you should say I also want percentage of equity okay I want to share in the business okay you know I'm surprised that people like you and abhiji chawra talk about these pretty practical positive for India ideas on the internet I'm surprised that the government doesn't think about these same Concepts I'm sure there are equivalents of you or chawra sir sitting near PM Modi sitting near Dr jaishankar also suggesting these things and you're saying it doesn't happen again because of how the government works in our country well some of it has been infiltrated some with American Consultants some of the snakes in the ganga at Harvard that I criticized in my book are consultants in the Indian government now I will let you expand on this thought I've been stopping you from Rajiv Malhotra so the books next in the ganga it talks


so the books next in the ganga it talks about when snakes in ganga means you know when you're taking a bath in the ganga you don't expect danger you expect a safe so snakes in the ganga is like saying that where you expect safety you're not suspicious there's a problem there is a problem it's hidden there are snakes hidden underneath the surface but you don't know them but they are poisonous they can come and harm you so the places I'm talking about are American think tanks American higher education where we send our children very uh honestly and naively thinking that this is good for them but they are being poisoned in terms of their ideas of India and not there I'm not concerned about the science and technology which is fantastic America has got the best and we should send our kids and learn all that but I'm concerned when they go and study Indian history why you want to go to Harvard to study in industry or what is the problem with some Village or


industry or what is the problem with some Village or what is the human rights problem or social justice problem a minority problem a dalit problem when we are going overseas to study these things about India in a problematic way and look at it through the Western lens the Western drishti that's a problem for me China also invests a lot of money in funding American universities but they do it to learn technology they don't let their kids go and study about the problem of yugir Muslims or problem of Tibet or you know whether human rights are good whether political democracy is good bad they don't want the Americans to comment on Chinese Internal Affairs yeah I think uh again this is normally defending the caste system or uh minority prosecution or anything like that but human issues happen in every single country yes based on the current geopolitical narratives yes certain issues about certain countries crop up a lot more than other issues yes do you know what this whole Cobalt mining situation yes Africa Cobalt


whole Cobalt mining situation yes Africa Cobalt mining is actually very bad and yet electronic vehicles are dependent on that yeah only broadcasters like Joe Rogan talk about this openly but it's never your news channels talking about this but our news channels will talk a lot more about the Indian car system rather than talking about European racism right or American racism right right right uh you know and I just feel that when your emotions are attached to your opinions from a political or geopolitical perspective uh it makes you choose what you want to consume on the news so say if you are an Indian left Winger again and I'm talking as a Centrist if you're an Indian left Winger or as we decided in this podcast we'll call it promo the andanti movie if you're anti-modi you'll rally with those opinions that oh look India it's got so much discrimination so my minority prosecution without understanding that hey India is a pretty positive place to stay when you compare to the rest of the


to stay when you compare to the rest of the world and all the issues happening in China Africa Europe America so I have two thoughts on this so first thought is that when we talk about the the Indian caste system and this and that and that we should control it ourselves it should not be something that other people control yeah and uh they are they are their interests have never been for India The Divide and Rule of the British Empire was not to help one Community or another but make them fight and take over just one second so before we continue you know what steel Manning an argument is straw Manning and steel Manning yes yes straw Manning is where a lot of listeners who are anti-modina have already listened to this podcast and said no I'm not going to listen to this guy because they already stuck in their perspective steel Manning is seeing the entire argument from a 360 degree but let me just tell you this that I have lived in the United 52 years long before Modi the


in the United 52 years long before Modi the same problems were happening during the Congress government Harvard and places like that were attacking the caste system Indira Gandhi was fighting them U.S was interfering in India's Internal Affairs during Indira Gandhi's time during Rahul Gandhi's time one Moon sings time so the American liberal left has been interfering with India throughout the U.S Commission on religious freedom which reports to the U.S Congress set up during uh Bill Clinton's time was long before Bodhi so this this problem with India is not a problem with Modi is not because of Modi that they've started this they should be sure to understand okay this is pre Modi they were already doing it now they can blame it on Modi yeah let's also address the fact that the caste system is a devil of the modern day and we're not we're not defending it or anything uh and it does cause problems in the Interiors of the country absolutely but let me or not now come to


country absolutely but let me or not now come to the second point sure one of the key buzzwords that they're championing is called diversity diversity equity and inclusion Dei they're championing this in all the corporate Worlds the diversity is good and so on but India is the most diverse country that has ever existed there's more diversity of language and food and you know ethnicity and spirituality and whatever nobody doubts that the facts on the ground are that India did not get homogenized as one like China did like you know American culture British culture French culture is all very homogeneous Japanese culture whereas in India by comparison with all of them has remained extremely diverse so how do you explain the diversity of India if there is human rights problem how can so many people survive respect each other get along with each other for so long obviously there must be something in our social thought in our social structures which promotes diversity how could diversity come out of nothing it has


how could diversity come out of nothing it has to be promoted so we are able to promote a very diverse lifestyle for even in Bombay you'll see so many diverse communities the everywhere you go you'll see that you will not see that anywhere else in the world it's not a modern phenomenon it's a very old phenomenon in India so this is something the social scientists are not studying they're not willing to admit that India is a diverse Society because of its Vedic culture this is what happens when you study social science about one country while you're sitting in country B yes because you're taught according to the fabric of that country and when you overlook nuances and you were not able to steal man arguments right you're not able to see the argument from a 360 degree perspective and also you're you're funded a certain way what your your funding comes from a certain way who funds you and you are part of a cabal of like-minded thinkers so you


part of a cabal of like-minded thinkers so you don't even it takes a lot of courage to break ranks from your own group so in America the social science is a very group oriented you will find a certain school of thought here and there and that that school of thought consists of people who sort of more or less agree with each other and young people are trained they get going to the doctorate program they work under a professor they learn his point of view then they also continue that it's a param process I see this one this was a lot of my friends who've done the undergrad abroad it changes the way they think and they're not able to have that kind of nuanced outlook on politics or geopolitics right I remember once telling a friend of mine he's actually my best friend from childhood he studied at Ashoka University he's often not able to um empathize with a lot of right-wing ideologies uh some of which might even be true you know even I feel extreme right and


be true you know even I feel extreme right and extreme left has some correct in it uh everyone has some correct points what I do wish to say is that um ah I remember once a bunch of my friends some of whom had studied about some of whom had studied at uh jnu Ashoka University some of whom had studied at regular right-wing colleges they asked me what have I learned through the podcast and all I said is I feel that the moment you have extreme ideologies the truth is that you don't know what you don't know there's so many narratives that are going on because of the world of Journalism because of the world of the internet in general because of the world of algorithms and these thought bubbles that they create that you don't know what you don't know and it's best to just try staying Centrist and absorb as much as you can about both sides because there's stuff to be learned from everywhere and they shouted at me for wings interest so then


they shouted at me for wings interest so then I was like okay this is where I switch off because I think you're on one of the sites and that's the truth about the world that we live in yes and I also feel as a Quantic reader it's my job to stay Centrist and keep questioning both the sites good it's ethical that's correct and I don't see that happening with Indian journalism I I don't see that either and it's also the job of a good intellectual a good intellectual can take a position of his own but he should be open to all the positions of all the sides and be able to borrow from here and there okay now I will let you continue uh about the snakes in the Ganges narrative snakes in the ganga is basically a theory of what is it's a it's a study of what is happening that is anti-india coming out of places like Harvard okay where Indians go and Americans tutor them in a very anti-india way and this negative


them in a very anti-india way and this negative rhetoric that goes into the American law American uh the way the Americans treat the Indian diaspor it goes to all the different universities Indian billionaires like Mahindra and mithal and pyramal are funding it in Harvard that's a very serious problem that we've exposed and then this all this knowledge is brought back to places like Ashoka Ashoka kriya University godrej tis in Bombay a whole lot of them are far worse than jnu because jnu was not elitist people's kids it was like Grassroots people they did not have a whole lot of power at the top they could do a lot of harm though but you know now the guy the person who goes to Ashoka the fees are very high he comes from a very rich family very elitist kind of family so he has a lot of clout when he gets out there he's going to have a great job or something important that he'll do he has more force and


something important that he'll do he has more force and power these people are now being brainwashed the the private universities in India and places like this are brainwashing the elites of India not the lower level Social Democratic graphic people and this is very dangerous and this kind of new ideology in places like Ashoka is coming from Harvard what is the ideology the ideology is what they call bokism in America what is also called critical race Theory now this was developed in a good way to help the blacks deal with the whites in America which is their problem and it's an American problem racism is an American problem and blacks need help no doubt about it but now they have said dalits are the blacks of India and the non the leads are the whites of India and India is a racist Society this is what the critical race theory has been applied to India in this way do you think that's true for rural area areas I don't think any of this is true because I think the traditional


any of this is true because I think the traditional system of Varna was very different and uh Varna jati are very different and now that the caste has been created the hierarchy of cast was created by the British Lord resleck did census and forced people into a hierarchy saying you belong here you belong there and the Indian government foolishly in the Constitution made it something permanent long term by giving quotas based on caste rather than quotas based on individual I mean if they had said the individual who is below the poverty line comes from an unfortunate family will be given a special rating and a special quota that individual who's unfortunate could be a Brahmin could there are brahmins who are in trouble and there are the leads who are billionaires there are the elites who are billionaires so rather than fixing the identity of a person and creating identity conflict it should be at the individual level individual need individual need you mean based on income income maybe an education maybe other factors maybe certain rural


maybe an education maybe other factors maybe certain rural areas are considered get extra points because when you're from there you don't have the infrastructure maybe so if you now that there is aadhaar card everybody is identified if if they can either if they can stratify people at the individual level and maybe at the family level based on social deprivation those who are deprived as opposed to those who have social privileges I would say the same caste person who lives in Delhi and who's got a job and he's a he drives a taxi and his kids working for a tech company he's a different status than a poor farmer of the same family same jati who lives in a rural area so you cannot just treat them the same and and so you know what you have to do is appreciate Mobility give credit to the fact that India has had Mobility so that Mobility is at the personal level individual level there are individuals from all communities who are doing better than others from the same community


who are doing better than others from the same community so this has to be appreciated so it now the technology exists the AI system system exists the Big Data Machinery exists that you could actually build an individual profile of 1.4 billion people and come up with algorithms to see who is who deserves the maximum help on an individual level nothing to do with that cost so there's a scientific means to actually segregate Society based on who needs how much help that is correct you can come up with a criteria of what kind of help is needed by people in Mumbai what is needed in a small town and then you can come up with what what would be the profile of a person who deserves it the most and that person could be of any cost if he if that's his parameters then he should be getting that help and currently the responsibility of giving help rests in bureaucrats hands yes and and it is on the basis of cost whether your cast is like this or that or that where your cost ranking is


this or that or that where your cost ranking is and the ranking of the cast is kept is for frozen but people are Dynamic people of a certain caste are different strata than their parents were and there kids will grow up in a different status so you have to appreciate the fluidity of uh individuals moving up and down I I hear everything you're saying the only reason I'm not completely convinced with what you're saying is because I feel like from what I have heard again this is not my own experience when you go to rural areas people of logos are treated extremely differently they're extremely ostracized and I believe that that's also the argument of most of the people who are talking about caste related yes so those in those areas since the individuals are treated that way they deserve help but you cannot reply to that that caste definition all over the country as if it's uniform and and even the idea of minority I mean I would say kashmiri Hindus a minority


I would say kashmiri Hindus a minority minority so if you look at the definition of a minority why do you say that Muslims are a minority everywhere even though in some places they are not a minority and Hindus are a majority everywhere even though in certain places they're not a majority so I think you have to look at individual situations which vary by a very bad location and and very different from one part one state to another okay so what you're saying all in all is that all these ideas of religious segregation and caste-based segregation are old world yes and now that the science and technology is here to scan the country and to help in governance and bureaucracy bloody hell use it I am saying absolutely absent this is one of the most important uses of AI because the machineries exist to capture all this data you can capture in more immense amount of data today which would be very manual and not practical to do but today you know who's buying what


to do but today you know who's buying what Who's got what credit who's got how much income who travels where who travel takes a railway car this or that you can build like a huge database of consumers individuals communities and keep it alive and figure out who needs help and who doesn't need help will this actually happen I think this is a this is an idea which is Way Beyond the thinking I have seen it's neither in the the social scientists thinking this forehead this is a social sciences job Indian social scientists should be coming up with dissertations they should be coming up with theories and solutions and proposals like this nor do I see this kind of innovation with legal people and nor do I see it with the nithi ayok people so I don't know who's going to Champion this okay uh maybe the Gen Z brains that we're seeing coming out of India some Genji people I want you to look at those who are into this new technology look at developing proposing developing


into this new technology look at developing proposing developing a national system where you're going to evaluate measure track individual Behavior individual consumption individual rights and privileges individual handicaps that people have it could be a medical handicap gets a certain number of points it could be that your parents are poor and you come from a poor Village you don't have schools and hospitals you get some points for that it could be that now that you come from that poor Village but then you have come to Bombay and you're doing very well then so those points have to be taken away because now you're not you don't need help so this algorithm which is dynamic and much and learning all the time from experience has to be a given giving advice to the government people the planning people on how to reallocate the quotas and the resources now when you when you look at the barkers of privilege and instead of blindly saying caste and minorities you should also look at things like English language English language is a marker of


things like English language English language is a marker of privilege in terms of jobs and not just English who's got the American accent who's got the British accent who's got the uh Urban Cosmopolitan accent who's got the village accent it matters a lot it matters in your social standing your matrimonial prospects and your job prospects and you know people are being in an interview you if you speak very nice and Slick your chances are better so this is a caste system also this is a cast Market it is not that the brah means who knew Sanskrit and kept Sanskrit from other people were privileged you can't apply that today I don't think that somebody knowing Sanskrit gives you more jobs today or it gives him a better whatever you know so I think this brahminical privilege as they call it is a very old idea today it is the angreziath the person who are not only it and crazy as a language but angreziath has body language as style as your brand


angreziath has body language as style as your brand name brand of Consciousness affiliations associations all that add your profile as a person and gives you stature and gives you privileges so if you really want to be an honest left-wing honest liberal looking for social justice and dismantling the structures of privilege you should be looking at it this way you do know that you are categorized as a hardcore writering person I don't know how I'm characterized it doesn't matter yeah I mean it is but I'm telling you that fighting against yet I why is it considered right-wing nowhere else in the world is considered right-wing so in Mexico the left-wing radical Communists are fighting against Spanish language it came from a colonizer because Mexico did not have had its own languages but the spanias brought Christianity and the Spanish brought Spanish Spanish language and so the liberal left-wing want to do away with that very big Cathedral talking about doing away with house of worship in Mexico City is a huge


with house of worship in Mexico City is a huge Cathedral it's one of the world heritage centers and when they were digging up the the Foundation to do some repair work they found that it underneath was a Native American Temple so that created a whole storm people saying it's called I mean of course that's a very radical idea they won't do that but the the point I'm making is that the left wing in those countries supports native religion native culture native language as compared to the foreign brought so if if the Indians were true liberals in that sense then they would want to have local languages rather than graziath rather than Urdu because these are brought from overseas but they would want the local ways of life the local food the local ways of worshiping to be encouraged so that would be that would be my view would be a very liberal view in many countries in the world all in all you're saying that the kind of criticism that India gets abroad is partially valid and mostly


that India gets abroad is partially valid and mostly not yes because uh those arguments are extremely Western thinking based arguments right and Indians Indians liberals who should be thinking for themselves a liberal is a person who says I'll think for myself I I'll learn how to think for myself that's the ultimate liberalism but I find when I talk to the Indian leftists they are not they just go to market they just keep reciting the same ideology to you and exclude you because they can't deal with your facts I think anyone on the extreme left or extreme right of our country is almost always Loosely informed highly opinionated that is correct and I say that for both extremes under informed and over opinionated I have said this for a long time that is what a lot of our people are okay um you know and you see this with a lot of teenagers college students who've just begun to learn about the world of politics or geopolitics get extremely riled up in their own emotions


get extremely riled up in their own emotions but I want to ask why would you consider it right-wing for someone who says that angreziath is this is an oppressive structure and one of the criteria for deciding who should be given more quotas and who should be given more help should be based on ungracious as a as a scale people I I would say that uh maybe you should have a quota for people to be hired it in their local language I think your categories mostly is right-wing because you are mostly Pro Modi and again you have your own criticism of the Modi government yeah which are not highlighted enough when people are criticizing you but then these people are probably not old enough to remember that long before Modi was in the scene nobody heard of Modi on the on the political scene he was some in the local level uh I was having the same arguments and the West Was criticized in India for the same things long before Modi this is something that people should come up with and


this is something that people should come up with and understand the facts during the Indira Gandhi time during the Rahul Gandhi time Man Singh time all these attacks on India's caste and minority were going on it's just that now they can be blamed on Modi but previously it was not being blamed on hindutva BJP Modi this was a problem of Indian society that they were criticizing and I was on the on the side of Defending India when there was no Modi around so there was no question of being promoting okay a little raw question for you to kind of break the pace a little bit do you think our country should be run by younger people yes and it won't happen though it won't happen it should be run by younger people because their future it is there ultimately is their future people like me should be our authors writers all I want to do is keep writing talking I have no uh ambition or potential for getting any position appointment I don't want to be in


getting any position appointment I don't want to be in politics I hate all that I just want to express my views which I have a right to do but I think the people who are stakeholders who are whose lives are at stake in terms of the policies and Direction our young people and there should be more young people okay who's gonna be in the next pm after body I hope it's none of the people on the scene right now people keep saying it should be Amit cha it should be Yogi it should be this that I mean I would like to have seen totally new people Fresh Faces Fresh Faces certainly I would want them to be more AI educated technology educated because we're in the verge of a fourth industry Revolution they call it that and this will decide the future and these people have to be not just indirectly informed based on what somebody some advisor is saying some bureaucrat is saying they must have knowledge of this technology themselves I can engineer themselves or


this technology themselves I can engineer themselves or in the scientist themselves and I will tell you the Communist Party of China CCP Chinese Communist party which has 90 million members lot of technocrats in it a lot of Highly Educated people people who are scientists people who are phds people who are researchers uh you know very well informed subject matter experts in all sorts of areas not the typical Gunda type of you know you think the Communists but they are well-educated people in the Chinese Communist party and they are the brains they are running the country they're electing the government and all that stuff so I there's no reason why we couldn't have a Brain Trust a sort of a very high quality educated youth uh in some kind of a structure which then run has a lot of influence in the country I have some young friends of mine who are only as old as 35 who've actually tried getting into politics put their feet in that pool a little bit and then just got out saying


pool a little bit and then just got out saying I can't deal with this dark corrupt world of politics that's the truth about in politics and that's why people don't take it on as a career until they're extremely powerful like the one guy who I've met through the show who I feel will actually get into Indian politics and maybe do something is a Schneider grower you know he's one of the Shark Tank judges he's a rage on the Indian internet his next steps in his career political he's also an engineer from IIT I actually have hope from him uh but I don't know what's gonna happen in the next generation of politics so do you think that democracy makes it a dirty game and discourages good leaders it could be all in all yes in saying that that's a very controversial statement from my side I can get into trouble if this statement is taken in isolation out of this entire podcast I say that even after experiencing this entire podcast and all these


after experiencing this entire podcast and all these geopolitical podcasts and more important most importantly the podcast of the military leaders that I've had I feel they have a huge say in how the country should be run because the lives are literally on the line and I think India needs India needs leadership strength and the military people are trained to do that and I I yes I I certainly agree that the military scientific people you know people with certain topical certain subject matter expertise should not be sort of the local fellow who can Rebel Rouse and he can get votes and do get out here and whatnot and he becomes he gets a ticket because he can arouse votes and all I think that kind of a election based leadership is not good for the country you don't get the best leaders that way I'd like for you to highlight what we began with which is this whole China versus USA situation which is going to encapsulate most of our coming two decades perhaps yes from 2023


of our coming two decades perhaps yes from 2023 to about 20 43 and maybe even Beyond yes you're saying that this is the New England and France of the 1700s correct England and France are still two extremely powerful Nations 300 years later yes possibly for the next 300 years it's going to be a battle of Technologies between America and China what's this entire narrative so I think that China has put first of all looking at the past last 20 years China has pulled a fast one on the U.S the U.S has been very stupid in the way they've dealt with China and though I disagree with many of the policies of trump I disagree with him on many things but on the one thing I like what he did is he called The Bluff of China he really called it out loud and clear and now nobody Republican Democrat can deny it and everybody in America is aware that China has pulled a fast one the American logic was that we'll help them become rich and when they become


we'll help them become rich and when they become rich they'll become Democratic because rich people want freedom and so the the way to make them democracy is to make them rich and then then they'll become our friend and they'll become like us it didn't work that way case of a failed social science hypothesis totally failed social science hypothesis that wealth and prosperity and lot of Education will make people like us because you know we are right we are the good people so if he becomes well well off he's not poor and he's Highly Educated then he has to be like us that's a that's an arrogance of you know our righteousness and it has failed so China is not going to become like America is becoming anti-america using American money using American Technology a lot of it they stole also so this is the past what has happened a lot of it they stole they stole American Technology right and left there are a lot of lawsuits a lot of U.S allegations


lot of lawsuits a lot of U.S allegations on China like the Hawaii that they've taken Technologies a lot of uh Chinese in in the United States have been arrested this is going on now I mean the big tech companies in America were building things and this was taken to China this was taken to China some of it University Research some of it Government research was taken to China okay so this Indians didn't do because Indians have had their brain sitting in the banking industry in the Pharma industry and India's didn't say okay you know what I'm going to go back to India and develop this new thing on my own and sell it back to the Americans indias didn't do that okay so in that sense I'm glad that Indians have been more honest and ethical and Indians are trusted in that sense now the Chinese are there's a distress towards China because of that reason China the president XI believes that it is too late for America to press the brakes because they're so dependent on China that