boar wild boar yeah yeah while boys do they kill more people than leopards tigers and bears put together put together yeah they kill more dude more many more humans are killed by wild boy in our country wow like so the tiger and the leopard is not the scary animal and if you walk if you're in the jungle the scary animals are the bison the coral they are scary because they charge man and they are like huge the others can be animals are the best dude snog bales i want to ask you about bears yeah so slog base the thing is that slobbers are very near sighted they're very bad vision so and their sense of smell is very strong so so they they they get alarmed when you come because they cannot see you they can smell you but they don't know what you are so the minute you come close then they still attack i know they've got like their they'll select the size of your index fingers just their claws they pause the size of


fingers just their claws they pause the size of a quarter plate dude one slap is your whole face gets ripped apart dude have you seen one up close i've seen this locked up close i've never seen an attack but i've seen a victim after the attack so it's quite gruesome man it's quite gruesome um very funnily i was reading a book on agory's yes you know baba yeah yeah so i was reading a book on argos and there's a particular village near haridwar if you want to go you have to take a look at and all and you have to pass through sloth by territory so it's a chapter in that book uh describes how the author and his guide started feeding sloth bears in that forest so that got me thinking that dude stupid yeah is it is it stupid or do you like this eating any wild animal is a stupid idea have you seen this happening i mean in anthem you see like them throwing biscuits and all hmm there's


like them throwing biscuits and all hmm there's this carnivorous bird called a rufus t pie okay okay now there's another issue tourism like prism is good for the forest because it's a form of monitoring it's like like the tigers that are in the tourism zone are monitored regularly by two so anything happens to them the authorities get to know without even technology because the tourist cars are petrol in that part so they can concentrate on the other part which is the non-judicial part okay the other see that's the thing responsible tourism is good for the environment irresponsible tourism is very harmful and we're going to run from more you will see like guests like giving ruffles blaze keeping it on the hand of these rufus tree pies come and eat okay but the thing is that those birds this is not their food they're carnivorous birds what do they eat they eat insects they eat meat out of the tigers kill them they scavenue they say like i've


kill them they scavenue they say like i've never seen this but the kitten drivers used to say that the rufus tea by cleans the tigris thief which is kind of i've never seen it myself so i find it hard to believe but they do eat the kill scavenge like they eat insects and also the carnivorous birds now their systems are not made to eat ruffles days and all man and they get screwed then you will see them throwing packets of biscuits at the temple in northampton temple there are some temples on the way inside they throw biscuits for the langurs and then they'll throw the biscuit with a plastic wrapper along a full packet only they'll throw and then the longbows are eating and then the deer are eating plastic god and then like and then they'll like throw and animals also peru in samaria which is not right so it's kind of stupid to feed wild animals yeah something uh related to safaris i remember you describing your african


to safaris i remember you describing your african safari to win you were like i hate this what the this why did you not enjoy africa i enjoyed africa but the thing is no the difference between africa and india right in africa right it in my first safari drive alone i saw 30 lions dude in india it'll take you like couple of weeks at least a year if you live in the forest it'll take you like about a year or no i would say six months to see 30 tigers if you live out there if you do regular safaris but if you don't live in a forest like it can take you like 10 years maybe to see 30 tigers what did you make of lions because you're spending so much time around animals so i'm sure even if you gauge an animal you'll be able to tell something about it so what did you make of lions lions so i lions are awesome the huge they're amazing looking animals i'm in the main lines but i


looking animals i'm in the main lines but i like i prefer the lionesses um man watching those lionesses hunt is like watching a soccer match man why like and what so we were watching this migration happened okay so like someone like wildlife had just crossed the river and they'd come up the riverbank and we were there okay and then on the little of everybody [Music] ak no they must have been some six or eight lionesses that came out of the nala they were all sleeping one lioness came on the back of the hood and waited in the at the riverbank and three lionesses came on this side of the herd positioned themselves while the hood was still grazing they kept far away kept in the bushes and they went and then there was this one from the back start chasing the hood okay so one leg will be start moving like this then that first line is now comes and splits the hood and these two lines then hold the rest of the hole back like the third lioness


the rest of the hole back like the third lioness comes out and chases the herd from here and that's when you put your camera down because you don't know which line this is going to make the kill from something wow it's crazy dude it's skilling with strategy full strategy and that comes back to the question but we spoke about the disadvantage being made so the thing with tigers and lions is their weight is the disadvantage they cannot run long distance a lion or a tiger can maximum 100 meters after 100 meters little tires it gets so tired that it has to rest for at least three to four hours to get up and recover what the yeah they dude i imagine how much energy it takes to move up 250 kilogram or 280 kilogram animal at 65 kilometers long for 100 meters it takes a lot of energy for the tiger to do that which is why which is why agonists hunt like that which is why tigers use stealth and they come really close to the animal before


stealth and they come really close to the animal before pouncing and catching they tigers are ambush predators because they aren't alone uh these guys are struggling lions hunts by a strategy because they hunt and prides so they are more of them so they can log out their strategy but still they also cannot run for like half a kilometer like dogs like dogs can run for like kilometers dude like candid like wolves and all run chase their prey for kilometers because they are stamina animals are tigers and lions are burst animals they are burst energy short distance but burst god that's that's crazy man and you know africa was honestly my first introduction with animals because you see it on nat jio dude you know when you go to africa it's literally like living in that jio for those many days like everywhere you look it's like national geographic national geographic you're like living in that channel for like how many days you go to the if you go to the masai mara the


the if you go to the masai mara the serengeti in tanzania yeah it's actually like you're living in that national geographic channel only yeah bro uh have you heard of this whole uh democratic republic of congo you know there's yeah yeah yeah so uh there's a know that foreign forest yeah and the maximum number of volcanoes in africa are in their active volcano oh really yeah inside that fall inside that form so it's also supposed one of the most unexplored jungles on the yeah because it's very difficult to explore it's very dense you know jaguars also hunt caimans yeah yeah yeah which are those tiny guys like crocodiles yeah which also exists in the amazon only it's crazy to think that something hunts crocodiles and eats them dude though you know they say that crocodile meat tastes just like chicken yeah well in australia they have crocodile farms where like in like out here we breed chickens for farms like poultry farms they have crocodile farms


farms like poultry farms they have crocodile farms what's the wildest thing you eat in your life chocolate yeah what does it taste like it tastes like a mixture of oyster and chicken only you were right like seafood chicken yeah like a mixture of seafood and chicken exactly wow the texture is like chicken but the taste is like seafood yeah but i ate it in australia when i was studying there you know it was like donald conservationist studying and you know having some fun mr dalal yeah but it's so fun uh you want to know the wildest thing i've ever eaten weird so uh my dad had a chinese associate in singapore and we were on a family vacation and that chinese associate knew that i was into food that i was in this whole cooking phase so he told my dad i'll make this guy eat a chinese delicacy but he didn't tell us what the delicacy is and i was very open to eating whatever i'd eaten insects


was very open to eating whatever i'd eaten insects by that point yeah we did grasshoppers same same same uh not in northeast i've eaten grasshoppers in my life uh but i was excited about this because he said it's a big chinese delicacy and he won't find us anywhere else except in china and singapore okay so testicles no bro dog testing i've eaten goats testicles in bombay you get out here that's my heart these are my hardcore nonverse days but anyway this is the most hardcore thing i've eaten okay so we go to this one place in singapore which is like a food court and um i'm sitting there and my dad okay so what are you going to feed us and the chinese associate damn sweet guy and all that he said okay he also got excited and he went to one of the stalls and ordered stingray okay okay now what do you think stingray will be like what's your guess i'm guessing and be like shark okay so the texture


guessing and be like shark okay so the texture is just like fish like surma okay okay but the taste you know what it tastes like what you know you go to a shot a public toilet and you get that smell yeah of urine old urine yeah you know that strong ammonia burst yeah but imagine that in your mouth when you bite the flesh oh sick that is him i was i ate it and i was in that george of like eating something cool okay so i bit into it and it felt like someone urinated in my mouth with the with the public toilet yes people like this bro i think it's more like a quiet taste yes yeah it's an acquired taste plus it's one of those situations where um i'm guessing cultures where they eat a lot of meat they're always looking for novelty and meat like new kind of meat etc like i've seen this up video when i was a kid once it was one of these gruesome whatsapp forwards of a


one of these gruesome whatsapp forwards of a bunch of asian men i'm assuming it's chinese i don't know slightly racist on my part but whatever i'm assuming is chinese they get this baby monkey yeah and they smash their brain open and eat it live right then it's alive and then monkeys yeah that's a delicacy it's horrible dude you've seen it yes i've read about this i've never seen it and i don't want to see it dude that monkey's screaming because monkeys are there what's happening yeah yeah yeah it's like hannibal lecter space bro yeah i know i heard of that like these in china they make they make their their ball soup so they have these bears that are kept alive with cages with their balls like this and they scrape their paws and all that skin and blood then they make soup out of that why would you do that to an animal dude don't you sense the animals pain i don't know but it's like quite disgusting what people


know but it's like quite disgusting what people eat around the world dude you know even uh when you talk about that you you han johan festival the dog festival where the killer dogs yeah that yeah i've heard of that you lin dog that's what happened we assume that it's all chinese people who do that it's not all chinese people there are sections of china which are uh kind of very open to trying different kinds of meats there are sections of china which are traditional china is a massive country it's like they have their versions we've got tribals that eat all kinds of stuff out here also like like out here we got rivals that like believe that that some extract from the monaco lizard heals a lot of medical problems like it's called the oil they take out the oil from some organ of the monitor lizard and use that oil in traditional even indian medicines have you seen a monitor lizard up close many times in the jungle are they aggressive uh they can be like


jungle are they aggressive uh they can be like they're not aggressive usually even they avoid us but the thing with them is they are like they're pretty big like this they're about the size of that leopard they're in the comments like about one toilet pretty well they're about about three four feet long including the tail but the tail they use it like a whip so they'll twist it like that part they lit you on your calf you know on your no no no on your calf okay but but dude you can get like it can slit your skin flesh everything that one attack on me yeah and they're quite violent if they want to be but most of the time they like have you heard of even emu birds in australia oh yeah those are like nasty do they get they can kill you dude with their claws they kick you or something they kick you in their claws are like daggers dude um do you know do you know that between bombay and pune there's an idea what does


between bombay and pune there's an idea what does it taste like it's like mountain dude it's like martin tikka it's like boutique about hence you know the texture is like mutton rather than chicken like yeah it's a lean meat got it lean mutton yeah that's what i call uh maybe you know this last section this is something we didn't cover in the hindi podcast either what's your opinion about crocodiles and snakes these two species because uh i think there's a lot of mystery surrounding them what people don't understand about crocodiles is that they are dinosaurs they are the dinosaurs that survived they've been there since the age of dinosaurs yeah so why do you think they survive firstly by seeing their behavior and secondly what do people not understand about these animals i mean dude the thing is that any animal it's quite simple to understand dude any animal is going to react to provocation if you provoke an animal it is going to react and most of time


animal it is going to react and most of time the reaction is going to be attacking you but if you if you ignore that animal like if you behave like an animal it is not there and even though is next to you stay calm there is no misunderstanding or anything good i mean they are there because they also have their place in nature they have their place in the ecosystem i mean the snakes are the apex foreign if the crocodiles don't exist then the rivers will get screwed if the snake doesn't exist the rat population will go up in the world it's just an example like there are snakes that might primarily hunt rodents so if those snakes go then all your sugars all your fields [Music] everything boils down to everything having its place and our survival depends on that balance be maintained i mean think about it dude if the if if if we kill all the snakes and all this all the rodents will increase they they'll destroy all the crops what will we eat


they'll destroy all the crops what will we eat [Laughter] [Music] [Laughter] bro uh do animals hunt crocodiles and snakes in indian forests uh yeah i mean tigers have been known to want crocodiles but aren't crowded is massive yeah but tigers are also massive like there's this tiger is called masti who used to earn crocodiles only in that lake in random mode wow and her father daughter i hunting after a certain village and the cops will stay behind in the bush and watch their parents hunt and they learn what they can hunt and what to avoid and all the mother actually teaches that to the cubs which is why the cubs stay with the mother for two two and a half years before they go on their own bro i wonder what the internal mind of a tiger is like you know nobody knows what the internal mind of any animal is your pet dog at home you never know what that dog is thinking at any given point in time what what y'all there's


any given point in time what what y'all there's no happy because taylor is lacking you know angry because teeth are showing that's all you can tell dude you don't know what exactly that dog also was thinking maybe the dog hates you and you think he loves you yeah no but uh there are spiritual angles to this you know they say that an animal especially or animals that give you joy like dogs uh they have a spiritual purpose which is to like enhance your life and they say dogs come into your life for a reason i've got nine dogs dude maybe maybe you're they sent to you for a reason maybe maybe i just like them and i caught them dude but what's your estimate what do you think that tiger's internal world is like like from jitna you know about tigers it's like any you any animals internal world which is sextile sexy food [Music] even basic human needs only that dude what what more do we need social needs no that that that even animals have lions have


needs no that that that even animals have lions have that social structure tigers also have a social structure they are solitary most of the time but the father comes and chills with the cubs comes and children mate please please with the cubs for a couple of days then he goes off on his own trip he'll go to his other other chick he'll go spend time with the other female with her cubs then he'll go to his other female when he'll come back so the everything has its social structure also but the basic primary primary need or family thought process of any animal is that you know food sleep eat that's it um everything else is greed yeah um you know i know that no other animal is greed only humans have greedy [Music] you know i know that male lions and female lions are very varied personalities but do male tigers and female diagnoses are very varied personalities individual animals only have like individual personalities like even dogs dude even if you have like lots of dogs every dog


even if you have like lots of dogs every dog has its own personality every dog has its own nature every dog has its own quirks that it'll do like that even adam all animals are like even we are like that here i mean which human being do you know that's completely perfectly [Music] often boils down to genetics and childhood moments so even animals could have boiled down to genetics and childhood moments fall you know i mean it's the same equal it's the same same our systems are the same right even the same kind of brain that they have the size and the parts of our brain size differs but we all have a cerebellum we all have a cerebral we all have a medulla oblongata we all have our spinal cord we all have a heart it's just that they live just at the level of consciousness may be different in each of in each species across species or whatever how do you know that the tiger might be smarter than you and other things i agree yeah you


smarter than you and other things i agree yeah you don't know no that's that's what we assume as human beings we we equate and the thing is with cats don't when you go when you go looking for like tigers or leopards in the forest right no those tigers the leopards are always like two steps ahead of you dude you can have i don't think it's possible to outsmart a cat like you can outsmart a dog like dog you can make him a loo but it's very difficult to outsmart a cat and it's it's not only tigers and leopards when you're doing sticky cats at home man yeah you try fooling a cat at capital tournaments [Laughter] [Music] it's time for our twitter section you have your own fan club after hindi podcast after the english podcast people just want pieces of your meat my meat i mean your overall soul's meat not your meat they want pieces of your mind okay hans dalalji are you ready for the twitter verse section okay


are you ready for the twitter verse section okay yes [Laughter] manish pandey asks discuss govardhan meena vranthambor and dr kobra gade [Music] [Music] born and brought up there and he runs this thing called kids for tigers which is a sanctuary asia program where they do conservation based activities in local schools around northampton so golden actually goes to like 300 400 schools around the forest and educates children about my life about conservation he he organizes like drawing competitions for them in their school he organizes like quiz quiz competitions debates on my life everything is based on my life even the drawing competitions everything he bases on my life and then the kids get prizes with even which are sponsored by the sponsors of kids for tigers they sponsor the gifts the prizes and all but now governor has been doing this work for the past 18 19 years so the first batch of kids that that that they know now they become adults so now and the kids the kids right now also go


now and the kids the kids right now also go home and tell their parents about wildlife and what they learned and then one more thing over there not only does he does he do these school programs and stuff but he also takes the kids in the forest so sometimes he'll take them in the forest to pick up rather tourists have thrown like plastic bottles plastic bags rappers all that he'll take school kids from namthama to pick those sometimes you take them on safari to see animals to see tigers and he's a really cool guy and the other thing that that golden does is that he helps the forest department during rescue wildlife rescue operations during animal conflict operations because at that point right for example if a tiger kills a person in a village or attacks a human being in a village those religious get really aggressive and they get like very angry with the forest department and very often they don't let the forest department dress to the rescue operation like it should be done so governor is the


like it should be done so governor is the little man he's the guy who who somehow's the villagers you know let them do their work this is not the way to do things yes i agree that this has happened but if the rescue operation goes horribly there is a chance that many more of you will get injured so he's the kind of what they call mob management managing the mob so that they can do their rescue properties what golden does also and he also helps in rescues god and he's an amazing guy and dr kobrakade this guy is the legend like this guy you know i have not seen a more dedicated oh dedicated uh forest officer like doctor koblak for the simple reason i'll give you two three examples okay you know elephants get into this period called must elephants get really aggressive honey yeah because the testosterone level goes up 100 times more than the normal so they get really aggressive so doctor kobragar in in tadabad the forest


so doctor kobragar in in tadabad the forest department has a couple of elephants that they keep for for going and rescuing other animals their gypsies cannot reach so the forest department has a few elephants and doctor kobayakana is going to treat with elephant that was in must and believe me that elephant picked him up through him okay dr cobra broke his collarbone his hand was in a sling three days later okay with his hand in the string this man is back in the field he has gone to triangular tigers in another part of the forest then in last years his dad passed away because of comed two days after his dad passed away this guy is back in the field going to tanquela is another tiger to rescue another tiger and a couple of months ago a tiger caught him and during a rescue operation went wrong like horribly wrong on the title doctor koblak his foot was in the tiger's mouth what the and the other the other foot the tiger is poor


the other the other foot the tiger is poor on it and there's one there's one there's one i began the forest department in doctor ran back to the doctor and caught doctor's shoulders and pulled him so imagine this okay doctor in the middle this side a tiger is pulling him this way they sent this from this forest guy is pulling doctor goblins the other way luckily somehow his shoe came off and got stuck in the titan's mouth and they pulled dr cobra okay doctor this guy all toes in his feet were crushed all toes had to be reconstructive surgery okay i i i i and then dude with both his feet in a man bridge after like a month from this accident both his feet are in bandages he's got rods in every toe he's walking on a walker and he's gone back to dracula is that same elephant that had thrown him he's gone back to treat him with a walker in front of an elephant that threw you a year


front of an elephant that threw you a year two years ago that everything drinking through you you're in a walker and you're going to treat that elephant again i mean that is some dedication dude what happened the second time with that no that elephant is fine doctor's healing right now he still is one foot is still in bandage and all yeah but yeah these are some amazing people like yeah they are amazing amazing human beings like they are doing some amazing work man there are so many people doing amazing work yeah this just shows the dedication of you know people who are passionate about the forest yeah um okay uh hitard parikh asks is there any reason that tigers turn into the so-called man-eaters is it because some human has harmed him or her and that animal's past i don't think it's like that it's area conflict language yeah it's like it's fight it's for space humans are encroaching into the forest they're pushing the animals further and further into a corner and


the animals further and further into a corner and any animal even a human being keep on pushing into a corner at some point you're going to lash out right got it it's like any animal even if you even a dog dude if you take it into a corner and start threatening a little attack you do it even if it's a calm dog we are hard to call it okay sartha karade asks an interesting question he says hans dalal sir can you take any five animals and list out for each of them a special ability or a strength and a weakness so any five animals and list out one strength and one weakness and they said difficult one dude whatever whatever you know what it was on the surface level my first animal would be a tiger tiger's weakness is its weight and its sheer size tiger's strength is its ability to to camouflage and disappear like they do what i'm telling you there could be a tiger sitting five feet from you and you won't know that it's


feet from you and you won't know that it's sitting unless it wants you to know so that's one thing about the tiger leopard leopards advantage is that it's highly adaptable so it can adapt to like any environment any environment any place can adapt to like small prey large spray dogs cats frogs everything a leopard will eat morgie bakri the tiger will never go for a murgi or a bakley uh it'll only go for like slightly bigger so that's an advantage for the leopard will survive i don't think the tiger has i don't think the leopard has any weaknesses like that honestly no weaknesses i doubt like the leopard is like so adaptable it's unbelievable dude like leopards could be living in a flat right next to you and you won't know for years that it's living there wow maybe the only weakness is that it's never the apex predator in its territory there are forests where the leopard is the apex predator


forests where the leopard is the apex predator okay they they do existing tigers also where they are not the top of the food chain they're second but there are forests where the other topic tigers don't exist like there's jalan in rajasthan rajasthan there's kabini which used to be mainly leopards now tigers are also coming even the leopard is the top predator right but maybe maybe not anciently you know like historically there were tigers in bombay yeah the last recorded tiger wild tiger in mumbai was somewhere in 18 80 or something it was seen from teen mating malabar going to kuala lumpur and some british guys shot it on the way wow so yours is an interesting story vadala the word vadala comes from some it's not an urban legend but this is what the locals say uh so there's a place called ant top hill and i don't know ant hill used to have a lot of these little caves and one of those caves was home to a tiger


one of those caves was home to a tiger uh and the locals there used to call that area wagadola because i so they could only see the eyes in the dark yeah so it's it's quite possible yeah that's why the name kind of happened over time it's very possible dude yeah like i mean i mean tigers and i mean before like historically like bombay and all was like forest plan with did little fishing villages along the coast yeah but the inside was a lot of forest with tribal villages yeah like these barley tables and all they are local to bombay which is also what they say about crows that crows are actually native to jungles yeah and uh it's just that they have easy access to food and crows also adaptability that you've seen anymore no you only find them in cities you have to list out more strengths and weaknesses [Music] let's take that uh wild dog my dog strength is his endurance ignorance weakness would be its sheer size small yeah


weakness would be its sheer size small yeah as compared to other animals as compared to other parentals like tigers could kill wild dogs because they're small and easy to kill for a title are they highness in tarawa no hainas they knows outside tadoba like in the corridors in some places there have been recorded china's presence but in rajasthan has a lot of highness of you i know what is the strengths and weaknesses i now strengthen can digest anything dude anything dude like they can i just bone that other animals cannot like even like even when you very bury a human being like after thousands of years also the bones are still there right bones may take very long to decay but these guys can diet his bones again vultures also is the same thing mulchers also conduct this bones the weakness of the voucher is that its system is very delicate two chemicals so there's this one painkiller so this is the reason why so they're going extinct is because in in our villages right


going extinct is because in in our villages right the bullocks do all the work like uh so the bullocks and the there is a lie there is a there is a life [Music] but villagers to make the bullock work for more years they inject them with painkillers and steroids called diatropiniac and then when the bullock finally dies then they throw the carcass out like they won't even bury they'll even remember outside the village so the wildcats have been coming and eating these these carcasses and they are getting reaction to the dichlorophenia in the meat and their kidneys shut down and they die that's why while childhood extinct which also makes you think about factory farming a little bit yeah because fatty farming is again full hormones and chemicals only injecting into your chickens do you think that chicken or meat that we buy i don't eat chicken okay honestly because one of the reasons is i'm very scared of birds which is funny because i live in a


of birds which is funny because i live in a forest i'm okay with birds as long as they're far away but i don't like i i'm very scared of those claws and though i don't like those feathers and those things slapping and all so i'm very freaked out by birds did a bird attack you when you were a kid i don't know man probably i don't know the other reason that i don't eat chicken is because of this very fact that the chicken that we eat like broiler chicken especially is 90 percent chemical dude it's like the only chicken i really eat is if it's boneless and if it is like a gaudy chicken which is like a free-range chicken from a cow and not a broiler but i don't eat like because a friend of mine has had a poultry farm and he used to tell me that they injected the injectable chicken so it gives two eggs every day in nature dude a bird will they egg once in like two three four six


will they egg once in like two three four six months right they lay eggs not every day one bird lays eggs dude no burden is they inject the birds so they can give two eggs every day do you think maybe even eggs which are not free-range eggs yeah yeah because the chicken is injected with that and this is actually the meat and eggs we buy in cities yeah even even in like even in smaller towns you get broiler only now which is full chemical coming from poultry farms um you know this was a big issue in usa which is why usa has his whole culture of organizations which is very expensive very expensive number one yeah but think about it dude i mean organic free organic should not be that expensive because technically organic is like organic matter like leaves and all which are free you make your menu out of that you know your your chicken and all of eating on insects from the ground you're not feeding them chemical proteins you know they're getting everything on the ground so


you know they're getting everything on the ground so technically organic should not be that expensive but because it's so small in number availability it boils down to demand and supply so when the supply of chemical stuff is a lot more it's going to be cheaper if the supply of organic stuff is going to be more expensive yeah it all boils down well because economics do all of it about consumer education like you should know what you're putting inside your body yeah well we don't most of the time though like you think like you your palm oil that everything has spam oil in it right nowadays all your processed foods all your processed food is palm oil that oil is coming from southeast asian countries even chocolates even your nutella butter everything you got palm oil nestle ferrero i am one of the biggest consumers of palm oil yeah i mean don't think about it your primary is coming from southeast asia in forest where they're chopping down rainforests and getting mono culture and what happens is


and getting mono culture and what happens is they are destroying the orangutans habitat like 95 percent of the orangutans habitat and population has gone down because of palm oil because cultivation we want to eat we want to eat a truffle please and we want to eat a nutella or toast and we want to eat all this everything is palm oil and that's coming by killing entire ecosystems i mean destroyed just so that we can have uh french fries and stuff i guess yeah which is why anything you buy from your grocery store which is not fresh yeah exactly it is packaged which is packaged has some environmental impact somewhere down the line even though even that stupid plastic packet that you have buying it in has a dent on a environment the more organic you live whether it is buying fruits and vegetables and eating eating organic meats eating organic eggs it's better for the environment yes it's expensive but you should know about what you're putting inside yeah exactly and notice less i


you're putting inside yeah exactly and notice less i mean i mean dude see if i if i if i if i take two patches of land today okay if i do organic farming on one where i use only natural fertilizers and natural uh insecticides and and stuff like that okay if i put chemicals on the other part of the land within like 5 10 15 years that chemical part of my land will be dead it will be completely dead soil well as this thing will be completely rich soil and the more i kill my land the more chemical i have to put into it this thing after a point starts taking it out itself because the insects and the microbes and all start working underground [Music] to make the soil richer yeah you're in sex are not bad insects are good and the thing is you know you know why my my why we have to yeah i think there is agricultural education also that's a beginning in india i have certain friends but dude like organic agriculture and


certain friends but dude like organic agriculture and like i wouldn't say in organic more i would say permaculture is the way of the future permaculture is where you replicate ecosystems to your benefit so you create a food forest you create diversity in your in your crops so like like you grow like big trees which give fruit and now that you grow some other stuff other part of the plot you grow something else you create an ecosystem like everything is about coexistence dude you have to work with nature to get the best out of it you cannot just exploit nature and expect to expect it to keep going on yeah totally right man but i have to be the podcast host and bring you to the fifth animal you have to list out a strength and weakness let's see crocodiles crocodiles crocodiles what weakness would they be done tonight no no i think the weak this is the lack of movement on land but in water they are amazing my strength is they enter again this is their


amazing my strength is they enter again this is their entire the way they are how they've sustained themselves like you know crocodiles they they can survive when they eat like one one deer or one build a beast in one year they think that's all they need they're cold-blooded right so they heat it all most of the energy comes from the sun they need to eat like one meal a year and they can survive on one meal even though they eat more than that wow and all their reserves they reserve in the tail which is why the tail is so fat and fleshy i didn't know this too yeah what the so that's the strength of the crocodile you know and i've been watching a lot of nile river crocodile yeah uh documentaries and uh one of them had this whole alpha of the pack versus younger crocodiles they're young also yeah and they eat each other will guard the nest okay with her life she won't eat for those many days until until eggs hatch but the


those many days until until eggs hatch but the minutes the eggs hatch everybody's on their own because there's a danger that she um and still that species has survived over millions from birth the virus wow this is a slightly spooky question mr dalal what agarwal asks because you lived in the wild have you had any occult experiences in the wild related to both prey or anything yeah dude like you know the thing is i'm scared i i believe in goals but i'm scared of goals so i don't want to believe in goals but i have seen some stuff yes are you okay sharing one tiny cute story so in ramthambur right there's this place called yogi mail which is inside the forest and now you're not allowed to stay there but a few years ago like vips they don't were allowed [Music] [Music] you could see this faint lights just floating and going like that so apparently it's it's legend has it that it's some 12th century wedding procession of some


it's some 12th century wedding procession of some rajput princess or something and some dakotas came and killed everybody in the procession and who told them so from then till today in the jungle of course like every 15 days or something you see this green light just floating you saw it with the onions yeah yeah yeah wow so it was quite easy and spooky you know but yeah i i had and then i've seen other i've had other experiences also like outside of also in the corridor i was going once and i left my house really early in the morning i must be at like three o'clock or two o'clock i left my house because i don't reach this waterfall before the sun came up and it was like it it was like 60 kilometers from where i live now so we left really early because and i wasn't sure of the my turn i wasn't shot off and my ex-wife was with me in the car and she was my wife at that time so people were going but


my wife at that time so people were going but uh and then like i'm like you know what i just asked this guy in this cave and she looked like this and she's like what guy what kid and i'm looking and i swear dude i saw a house with a light and one guy walking out of the house and walking into the cave i swear i saw it when i told you that and then i looked and there was nothing dude it was quite freaky wow do you do you think you have enough dope on or current experiences to give us another podcast on just that no no no but you know people who do have this kind of yeah okay let's end the podcast on that note hans de la brother my brother my brother yeah you bricks when you see yours when we're in that over we'll have one entire ghost episode we will be there we will be there one in our ghost episode you need one special guest for that you know someone you


need one special guest for that you know someone you also know the same thing oh okay okay got it thank you this was a lot of fun uh thanks for being on the show [Music] you're really loved by the audience so i'm glad we got to do episode two and for the listeners go check out episode one which is in hindi which is kind of yeah that was the first time i did something in hindi maybe we actually had given one ted talk in jaipur once in hindi no jaipur kota i've even got ted talking quota or was it some other dog and they asked me to speak in hindi and i was shooting bricks man because my hindi wasn't that good at that time and i had to use words like rick schenbach [Laughter] you killed it you killed it you won a lot of hearts on the hindi podcast and i'm sure you want even more hearts on english killing it on the internet with all the jungle talk as always we'll have you


all the jungle talk as always we'll have you back on the show thank you brother thanks pam thank you that was the super fun conversation with one mr hunts dalal i highly recommend you also check out our hindi podcast episode with hans dalalal but generally check out the hindi podcast it's just like the english podcast especially if you enjoy casual fun open but informative conversations just like this every time i speak to this man i'm filled with joy happiness and of course so much information about animals the jungle about conservation about a beautiful planet make sure you follow the runway show on spotify conversations just like this every episode available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world i'd also love to know from you guys which other conservationists you guys would like to see on the show absolutely love speaking about animals dinosaurs and all sorts of conversations just like this people who've lived in the jungle people who've encountered wild animals people with adventures people


who've encountered wild animals people with adventures people with stories lots more coming up on the randy show [Music] you


when you listen to this entire podcast you're going to look back and say holy hell this was one legendary episode because it featured a legend d shivanandan he served as the joint commissioner of the mumbai police he also served in the intelligence bureau and the cbi while he was serving in mumbai in 90s he was responsible for bringing down the mumbai underworld that and more on this extremely exciting episode of the runway show we also spoke about geopolitics and a bunch of other subjects d shivanandansa will return on the show remember follow the rendition on spotify because every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world lots of episodes like this coming up for you this year we're changing up the flavor of the podcast we're making it more about experiences and information and stories this and more coming up on this extremely adventurous episode of the runway show [Music] absolute absolute honor having you on the show sir thank you so much it's


on the show sir thank you so much it's an enjoyable uh evening for me with a young man like you to chat alright so you know you just told me you're 71 years old uh which kind of made me think that you're probably the oldest and most experienced person we've had on the show could be general bakshi may be older than me which is great uh sir but you know i've given the audience an introduction on everything you've done um that's why i'm gonna head straight into your stories because that's what people really really want to know from you uh one thing i've gotta ask you is about the 90s specifically sir i was born in 1993 and even as a six-year-old seven-year-old i remember the turmoil that the 90s had in terms of crime that it had in terms of the underworld and when i was doing my research on you a lot of people attribute you with cleaning up sort of the 90s and uh early 2000s so what was that like from your


early 2000s so what was that like from your eyes so see i'll have to get into a storytelling mode all the time because nothing comes to a climax unless it has a beginning so this beginning is like let us say chicago uh mafia godfather marlon and various things like that or sicily and mafia chinese mafia and things like that so the indian mafia started long long before the early 60s or even earlier than that with this guy called kareem lala from afghanistan he is a patan so whoever was this khan that gone they were all the pathani gangs so the opposite was the local uh muslim gang started by the author brahim uh somewhere around 82 83 84. in between around that time was this tamilian uh people called hajimastan and that uh and others so uh then uh the more or less all those people faded out and then this though ibrahim and his people so almost all other youngsters of that time would have worked associated with ibrahim in


that time would have worked associated with ibrahim in one way or the other example is all of them are a part of this thing and so ultimately the whole thing is brought to your peak by all these people doing these things in 60s 70s 80s 90s and 2000 so 2000 1998 is the period where i entered into the picture and the the the the whole a lot of things which they have done also reached an unbearable climax now where the society and the government and the others had to tolerate it enough they had to call it a stop so that's the period they looked for somebody and then i uh came into the picture and we delivered what has to be done and without any instruction from anybody best is you know like baby with the bathwater you are given a bucket of water you splash yourself by the end of it the whole thing is clean either so to put it in one line later on you can go there dive deep into this thing but put it in one line


deep into this thing but put it in one line the 60s 70s 80s shootouts which they shot each other on the roads they were shooting people ahmedabad they used to shoot everywhere they were doing all the sayings it was not cleanup it was a build-up and they started shooting everyone to build up the superiority of each gang so in that if policemen had shot somebody that also was conceived or perceived to be that done on behalf of the uh one side of the other you know so they at a stage they realize when they shot it was murder when the police shot it became encounter they got the job a clean job done through somebody else i hope you get you're getting it so if that is the scenario then it reached in 1998 97 uh 97 or the peak period and then they have short all businessmen from 95 let us say big people like um builder worth a thousand crores md of uh east west airlines or wallab tucker or manish lala or natural alsha


wallab tucker or manish lala or natural alsha or various peoples like that like sunit katawa of kataw mill they were all in 90 gulshan kumar in 95 these are all in 95 under 96. so in 98 exactly full year 12 months that shot 101 businessmen on the roads either in their cars or in the road or in the cash counter or wherever it is so in simple terms 101 models divided by 100 365 is three and a half days one man is shot dead now mind you is only shooting and not cutting your neck or showing your knife or a variety of other ways only bullets were used for killing 101 people means every three and a half days so the press was also informative stage that time the tv was coming the mobile was coming so it went you know hey wire saying that oh one 15th murder and 17th murder 38th murder mumbai police is nishkami and things like i don't know what all flowery languages they can use so the tension was


flowery languages they can use so the tension was building the whole thing was building so in between uh if you see this i'm describing 98. so if you go a little bit ahead in 2000 rakesh roshan was said the entire shot he's alive rajiv rai another producer was shot so with all these things um the the build up uh was so very massive somebody in between again you go back a little bit 95 a lot of politicians were killed uh prime prime uh you know he was shot with ak-47 then so we have some vivek kalkar and so many uh mlas from shivsena bjp and all of them were shot so the situation became such a bad scene extortion was very high and uh mortgages were not taking place in marine drive and all because the day you do marriage people will start asking money for 50 sums you know to grow 10 crore bought a car there was a price you sold the car there is a demand and flat and all that so the businesses have


demand and flat and all that so the businesses have come to a halt marriages have come to all so that's the sea police also came to a halt because in 97 there was one guy called javed fauda was shot by the uh one acp was a so then that was allegedly to be a fake so there was an enquiry the bombay one um one two people one lawyer and one politician uh filed the uh encounter petition in the high court so the high court ordered a justice agyar he was the principal sessions judge later he became my court judge so he was asked to enquire he came to a conclusion after full inquiry that not only that was a fake encounter 95 other cases were also fake so 95 murder cases against 95 teams of mumbai police facing murder is not a joke now so mumbai police said okay now what do we do we just going home for a holiday they all took a holiday and they didn't do anything that is the time these gangsters had


do anything that is the time these gangsters had peaked mumbai police guns were there and opened the holster and they were on a holiday and they would not do anything so that is the time they went berserk and the case was pending police was demoralized because of the murder cases inquiry and things like that so that's the time uh one had to come in and sit right so that uh meant a lot that meant a lot so you know i feel every person has a kind of core skill set in their own career and if i had to highlight two of your skills over any other skill after all the research we've done it's intelligence and strategy intelligence and strategy yes because i worked in the intelligence bureau for six years in the beginning of my career intelligence bureau is the professional intelligence gathering organization from which rnaw got a separated so there you hone your skills and then come and then i became additional commissioner of crime then i worked in the cbi again in 2001 2004 for three years so


cbi again in 2001 2004 for three years so all these things do and again oxalite area that is 95.98 their everyday survival is a intelligence operation or strategy otherwise you get shot in an ambush or your vehicle gets blown up into pieces you are also for like a dry flush will be hanging on the trees so this is what is the intelligence all about and uh then uh you have to bring in to the table as the leader you can't expect everyone ah to come up with all this kind of things so what the hell is the leader if you study uh about leadership qualities you have to put all these things on the table and guide people yes so if you guide the force like all your army chaps you would have spoken to a leader takes the lead and others follow yes leader can't stay behind and say you go i'll come behind you so you lead so that is what happened in this my strategy strategies are multiple strategies which i will tell you later uh so so my question


i will tell you later uh so so my question to you is in 1998 then how did you begin that cleanup beginning is to fall flat cut your nose get up and then wipe your nose and do something different and like that like that you have to do by all these things but in my case there was a fantastic foundation because i worked in the same crime branch see 98 i came as a joint cp crime my boss was a super non-corrupt gentleman called mr rh mandunsa and he was a fully supportive and completely and also the government the government is sufficient bjp governor manohar yoshi was the cm and was the deputy cm so that is the scenario and uh that is in that scenario scenario i had a fabulous foundation because i worked for three years as additional cp crime so i had this background of all these people their dossiers their families their this that everything that is the background on which your intelligence edifice can be built now you come there and when the blood is flowing uh


you come there and when the blood is flowing uh on the marble floor or on the road divider then you have to 360 degrees think and come up with your own strategies i told you police have gone for a holiday because they won't shoot because of their other things so we the step strategies as you call it one two three four five six it's not that in one day you know after another you sit under a bodhi tree and you get all that eureka i run naked you know it's not like that it happens slowly one by one one by one one by one hit and run and then it yielded result but the result in one line is by the end of 2002 when i left the place since then to now zero shootout either by police or by the criminals this is 19 years unprecedented from 60 70 90 2000 there was not a single year where there were not shootouts either by the police or by this thing so people like you who are born have never had a single


like you who are born have never had a single gunshot this is a rare treat i must say you've gone going to school you're no kidnapping your father mother are not told this is so-and-so boy going to so-and-so school don't be aware no you they lose sleep and things like that nothing like that schools are running children are running a helter skelter and all the buildings are going on lodas are building 100 floors so hunky dory this is the result of that time that work we have done i think a lot of young people especially gen z which is born after 2000 or even 90's kids don't understand the role that uh generally india's entire police department has played in safety of this country it was a very different place in the 90s and 80s 80s if you see of the country every state every region is a country countries by itself like maharashtra is three four countries like marathvada witherback andesh konkan like that now the maharashtra itself is a huge


like that now the maharashtra itself is a huge state you know second biggest maybe so bihar is another ups uh can be divided easily for uh the different culture different languages different things survival is also different there so our country is a huge kaleidoscopical combination of so many cultures and uh and mumbai mind you i must tell you is a combination is an attractive place of all these talents coming from let us say tripura or jalandhar ludhiana kanyakumari like this these people are from kadhur and other places from tamil nadu so this guy's a active movie divar mukha dharka sikhandra them so those guys have come from the southern abu salam is from god azam god and things like that so this is a attractive beehive where maya nagari let me put it so where all varieties of talents came like amitabh bachchan came and um as they say slept in the bench in front of oberoi and became a superstar so are other


of oberoi and became a superstar so are other talents industrialists entrepreneurs educationists and gangsters and criminals yeah um so you know the one name that a lot of people my age have heard about and read about and know about is of course ibrahim um i have to ask you sir directly because this is the one opportunity i've got to speak to someone like yourself do you ever have the chance to meet him he ran away in 1984 when he was tried for a murder and the court gave a bail and then he ran away to dubai in 1984. from dubai he ran away in 1993 after the 12th march 1993 blast after the babri maji thing so i came into mumbai only in 1987 before that i was ruining running around in all villages my postings for 11 years from 76 i am from the 76 ips to 11 years until 1987 i was running around in latu sathara sindhudur pune arugubath and all villages painting the


pune arugubath and all villages painting the villages red so i came to mumbai only in 87. by the time i had come he had run away from this place i had he is incidentally son of mayor his father used to work in the crime branch as a as a waldar 12 children he had this guy is the seventh uneducated product of theirs what was the father like father was a havaldar fifty thousand hours we have he's one of them that's it he's nothing special besides producing 12 children he didn't do anything special that way but what what do you think happened i mean how does the kid become the most wanted person in the country see this is that uh of a negative variety the fire in the belly of a negative variety so you if you take it up as a case study this is a totally negative thing is worth a few billion dollars now in pakistan as there he's the most wanted dreaded drug dealer by the uh un declaration and


dreaded drug dealer by the uh un declaration and various other things these are all highlights of a man who has done everything negative what he has done to mumbai in 1993 march 12th is something unpardonable 257 people died 857 people injured under crores or more worth property went up and smoke this is something which is no indian can do to a fellow indian you know he's denied it so every criminal denies it there is not a single we have got overwhelming evidence overwhelming means it will go through your roof i was additional cp crime in august 1993 when this case was being investigated and charge cheated when the case took place i was that deputy directed intelligence bureau and i have gone with the americans uh going from bombay stock exchange to this thing is there a criminal who comes and tells you that i have done this crime and hang me not at all and not our dastardly crime like this where mumbai was blown up now it's not an ordinary crime we are


up now it's not an ordinary crime we are talking about we are talking about twelve blahs where the root of air india or bse or is that seerah kotal where is it have you seen syrup hotel it's a multi-story structure vanish so this is not a small thing which he can accept and come here and say happily ever after not at all and we are not here asking for any bloody uh buggers uh uh [Music] acceptance or denial no case is the case every case is uh worked on the evidence available to uh to us we don't we are not at the mercy of a criminal to say yes we have done yeah so what's he been doing in pakistan for this much time he has been doing there leading his life one to save his backside is the first job to start with then his brothers and various others he's got a lot of other businesses to do with he used to uh run around between london johannesburg and various other places a lot of


johannesburg and various other places a lot of legitimate businesses are also there then besides that he's been doing drug dealing arms dealing and various other things hotels prostitution rackets rackets all that he's a gangster so he's doing gangster's job there under the production of pakistani government the army the isi and others are protecting him and whatever tasks they give he must be doing it for them what can he do for them others he knows india he's got a lot of connections even now even today he can talk to people and get things done he's got food soldiers all over the place he can do a lot for uh you can do a lot yes so yes for example um um any place any building any place all these people can go there and take pictures and they can give the geographical thing and all that so there is some elements of crime still in this country which are residues of like the 90s see today you must know organized crime means tons of money otherwise there is no organized


crime means tons of money otherwise there is no organized crime at all so any organized crime organized by gangs you know by people who are knowledgeable strategists and things like that would involve all these things which you are asking me so uh to even today if you ask me completely after i have i had eliminated this gangsterism it's not that gangsterism has been eliminated it was eliminated to the extent that there are no extortion calls and there's no uh open threat and nobody will go to an office and put up a gun there saying there are no warsaw i still remember a case where one uh one one elected corporate woman corporator uh going to the uh mtnl general manager a madrassi poor man you've never seen a gun she opens her bag takes out the gun keeps it on the table and demanded whatever it is in her heart shown that man lost his breath no he couldn't he couldn't breathe so that doesn't happen now or earlier all business people where they moved


now or earlier all business people where they moved they didn't know which side the bullets will come any motorcycle coming on the side and parking you should expect a bullet i want to tell you a story when satish raje was a finance guy of this gang the audib raheem's gang so jj hospital in a traffic signal he had put bulletproof glasses on his car an important car so that was there he was sitting there two motorcycles came on the side and they had a hammer each and they just have bulletproof is not hammer proof or so so they just hammered it and they shot him pinned him down and went away same thing happened to your sunit in a mercedes-benz race course that the station mahalakshmi station in the traffic all sides vehicles are surrounding him he can't go back nothing can be done two sides summer nights gang people came shot him and went away yeah that answers your question yes sir yeah um so having a gun with you or um doing anything is of


a gun with you or um doing anything is of no value so i have to dial it back a little bit and bring it back to the day of the 93 blast um what was it like from your eyes and was there any sort of intelligence that some event was like this was going to happen there was no intelligence specific that way but what you should know the sequence is this that december 6 1992 babri masjid was brought down so there was a riot why the muslims obviously immediate that night itself and the mumbai police controlled it very very efficiently in the in the few days they controlled it completely and there was dead lull silence and then the hindus uh uh these the shiv sena and other parties started working bmc was with them so they collected their own intelligence strategy whatever you call so then by mid-january when two matadi kamagas went out for a passing urine or whatever it is they were done to death and then the next ride started this time it was the


then the next ride started this time it was the hindus who were on the revenge path so the movie called zakam if you have seen mahesh birds movie they wear that bandana bhagava bhandar and goja shivaji's all that kind of thing so that happened there again plenty of laws and there the people who suffered the laws of muslims muslim shops were all born muslim people were born muslim people who were living in flats they were located them in the flags and they were attacked and things like that so muslim businesses were torched you know like you also have a shop other in between there's a muslim some new johan something that was starched and things like that so having been done this allegedly as per the intelligence they a few of them went to the audible said we have to avenge this kind of the humiliation and there he was forced or asked or cajoled whatever it is he was asked so he with the help of isi had organized the landing of 4000


the help of isi had organized the landing of 4000 kilos of rdx that is 4 metric tons of rdx 2000 ak-47 2000 and grenades this is like um using a sludge hammer for killing a fly this much he had brought and landed in that um on various other places comes it comes through ship yeah it came by the ship and the boats and things like that and these customs officers were connecting one additional commissioner he organized it helped he was arrested and prosecuted and later he died of cancer and then he faced the prosecution so uh the conspiracy allegedly was hatched in a place called persian durbar a hotel here in panvel uh uh so that kind of things were all there that they were when the mall came also they were helped by uh people not interfering and things like that then ultimately they were all landed there in mahim that building called al-usain or something where this tiger women just next to mahim police station where that's where it was


to mahim police station where that's where it was all assembled and overnight uh one night before they took it various places and then they parked it and what happened is history yeah what was it like from your eyes so see from my isis this is the biggest ever terrorist attack in the world your 9 11 and all came much later this is in 93 12 march 1993 in one one hour between 12 to 1 or 1 to 2 12 blasts took place and people didn't know two buses in century bazaar just vanished like uh smoke up in the smoke people gone this is something unimaginable the whole buildings were shaking in far off places the glasses were all cracked in two furlongs away and this kind of powerful rdx blast nobody has ever seen not in the u.s the u.s next biggest thing happened was in 2001 that wtc tower so u.s or other countries didn't bother because we are a third world country but then when they got hit then the whole holy


but then when they got hit then the whole holy war against terrorism began but when it happened to us nothing like that no earth shook so in my eyes that was the biggest ever terrorist attack in the world everybody else should have woken up and there should have been solidarity amongst all the good countries and they should have uh and this was not any jihadi terrorist london osama bin maybe he had become little rich beyond that he was nothing right about him he could have been done away with no they didn't do our country didn't do ah as well as other countries didn't do besides only declarations by u.n and things like that nothing solid happened that way so in my opinion that was a missed opportunity for us to take we have been sending tons of papers to pakistan pakistan always denies for example when mushroom came mushroom is the president of pakistan uh in agra maria total meeting mr al-qaeda deputy pm the first question he asked was what about the


pm the first question he asked was what about the ibrahim being given to us he said there is nobody like david ibrahim and the whole meeting went flat because it started with this so the point is they denied that all this guy is not but then he stayed in a place called clifton a defense colony area he lives there um so what do you think his personal motivation was for doing such an event see he is the motivation as per this thing is the request by the muslims that we have been done to uh humiliation our babri masjid was brought down our people have been done done to that second riot whatever happened so it's a humiliation you have to avenge and make us feel the same or bring us at the same level so he said okay then we will do that he had access to isi and he had access to and pakistan has a grouse against us from 1947. you i think you should not forget that it is not the abdubrahim alone who did


that it is not the abdubrahim alone who did this and he didn't put money for putting all this equipment it is given free by pakistan no hand grenades and ak-47 rdx all that was given by isi impact condition we had i told you earlier overwhelming is that it came from pakistan yeah so pakistan gave so that pakistan wants instability in our country now when we are discussing the abdubrahim don't forget that we have an enemy called pakistan and they would use him to destabilize us our economic growth or our various other growth is unparalleled to them so they have to destabilize us they did that 1993 same is about 2006 2008 2011 2008 destabilizing the indian economy um foreign capital flowing in our growth and all that now yep um so i have to still talk a little bit about 93 and i definitely want you to speak about 2008 as well yes um so in 93 so what was the police strategy after this had happened in 93 after that


strategy after this had happened in 93 after that there was a complete hindu muslim divide okay the the ghettoism began all muslims began to assam in their place and muslims have become a separate ghettos of calm this so the people whoever came after that as commissioner police i remember mr sahani came and mr samara was the commissioner when the blast took place uh and when the riot took place there was sk 92 was sk bopper 93 was mr samara and 94 or 93 later 93 augusta dal is mr sati sahani so they started mahalo committees where in the muslim unity was there the complete loss of faith on the government by the muslims as well as the hindus and the police force and various other things there was a complete divide the way the investigation was done there was a inquiry by justice uh shri krishna uh which was uh instituted by the congress government sudha rao knight was the stupidness of that so that stopped because the


the stupidness of that so that stopped because the susanna bjp government came in 95 so they said they stopped it completely so with that kind of a thing the people's loss of faith over the government and the governance and the faith that the hindus will protect us or muslims will protect us neighbors will look after us all that kind of uh the the the faith the factor had completely gone even today if we see all of them are living that thing you heard various allegations that no uh hindu will be allowed to enter into their building to stay or a muslim would not be given a entry to stay in a as a tenant in a hindu dominated society so that allegations you come now you hear in this cinema people and all that making of a dawn so that is the kind of divide so the police had to bridge the deficit of faith deficit of trust and then they also had to see that nothing like that would happen again so but it happened it happened in


again so but it happened it happened in 2006 if you see that the train blast took place isi pakistan so if 93 is done by the auto ibrahim later on all the because of this babari masjids and various other things pakistanis played active role in various blasts like jaipur in 2008 jaipur bangalore uh surat had all of them were 1818 but in jaipur it happened in bangalore it happened they didn't blast because of faulty thing in mumbai it happened so so many such incidents happened and the new product called the indian mujahideen came rayas batkal and his brother yasin butkal you know the karnataka on the coastal side near udp they are there so they started doing their thing our boys went uh to pakistan and got trained by the army majors they came back and started all assembling this gun not guns assad leaked these ieds improvised explosive device or bomb or whatever you call so all these developments our country went into


you call so all these developments our country went into the throes of all these problems and with all these things our development our economic activity our various other things to occur toss you know there was a lot of issues because the government had to focus on so much to control bring lawn order peace then you have your punjab terrorism then you had your srinagar so our country went into a proxima paraxism of all these things that way so our whole focus is maintenance of land order and bringing peace and protection and security for the people where are we now sir we are there you know this internet see yeah after this 91 thing uh america took it upon itself to eliminate terrorism deva of age yemen afghanistan afghanistan 20 years later they have taken back what happened to taliban you all know very well so that's what my reading interest is all about what's happening in afghanistan pakistan all these things that's what a book after book book i read so uh where are we if you ask


i read so uh where are we if you ask we are our biggest problem is pakistan but our biggest problem is china the major problem is china and china is surrounding us with all their ports and defense units air bases and things like that and our internal problems are basically uh jnk under the infiltration coming from pakistan those people come attack this uri attack if you remember patan could attack you remember or recently all those things where the colonel is killed or somebody recently also one colonel was killed so these internal security issues for example the tiripura riot where um a colonel and others were killed and things like that so our firefighting is continuously going on so ltte has been eliminated uh by the sri lankan people so south uh tamil nadu and other areas are free but then noxialism is a big area nationalism 40 percent corridor you know red corridor you know about daxalism that's corridor that is andhra pradesh maharashtra madhya pradesh chhattisgard orissa


pradesh maharashtra madhya pradesh chhattisgard orissa jharkhand bihar then west bengal nepal is also part of it but nepal is a different country so this area is completely under the domination of the naxalites and is going on from 1972 so for our country the internal security management itself is a big challenge and so much of resources the bsf the crp the itbp all of them are deployed in this red corridor this red corridor which i gave you now is 40 percent of the geography mr manmohan singh in the 2010 dgp's conference which i attended he said this is the biggest internal security threat for the country which remains even now so to some kid who doesn't know anything about naksha lights or what this naksha culture is about how would you explain this story see naxalism is an offshoot of what happened in china mao in 1949 he brought the cultural revolution the the previous government was thrown away and they brought the uh communist party so this


and they brought the uh communist party so this is the extreme uh extreme communism is a naxalism it started in the place called naksal bari in 1972 and there so there jamindars and big people who are exploiting all the poor and adiwas they were beheaded and put in a poll and kept it there and all that so this is all started by some revolutionaries uh communist party kanu sanyal and chadhu majumdar and things like that a lot of educated people join in that your farooq gandhi just now they have removed from the newspaper you would have read he is a malabar hill based chartered accountant studied in dune school under london he was doing ca in london he got attracted towards communism and he became his wife anuradha gandhi and him they were doing naxal front thing so this lot of people got attracted towards this since it's an ideology based revolution of the people it is going on unabated from 1972 to now but


is going on unabated from 1972 to now but if anyone all of you young people think that these people are robin hood they want to bring good life to the poor adiwas is totally wrong mamo said that the sarkari armory is your armory don't buy a weapon with money go on loot and take over and kill the police police is a class enemy and overthrow the government and you start ruling with the bullets not by the ballot so none of your all the youngsters of your nature or even all the country people will believe that these naxalites are fighting to take over the government uh running they are not trying to get adivas is their pata their land thing or some bank loan or things like that that is totally mistaken so these people want to overthrow the government and they have been doing it it is a mirage it is like chasing their mirage you know who will tell them that in china they have gone way ahead of them now russians have gone way ahead


ahead of them now russians have gone way ahead of them i know these people are looking up to them and then trying to do all sorts of things here lots of lives are lost i want to tell you in internal exigencies emergencies insurgencies and all these things controlling this from 1947 to now we have lost more than 37 000 policemen in action is it a small number 75 years like kashmir nagaland mizoram south india north india either uder naxalite area 37 000 people are every october 21st at 8 o'clock in the morning we do a parade all over the country where that year's number of policemen who laid down their lives as a sacrifice we read it out and do a parade show parade we do so this is going on on and on and on and on it's not a small price to pay that's my point lord also so naxalism is that um you know cutting slightly from this conversation i just want to remind the audience that we're


i just want to remind the audience that we're going to link all these links down below and secondly also check out our highlights channel it's called trs clips we'll find highlights of this episode and all the other episodes but so coming back to our conversation one burning question i have honestly is uh what is the internal security challenge like why has it gone on for so long 50 years of like uh naksha lights not being like what have they done right naxalites is only one part of our internal security challenge is the eastern part if you say hey this is our own people who are misled and then they have taken to arms and various things like that i told you punjab terrorism got uh extinguished by kps gill and uh julia river and various others so is bordeaux so is ulfas who is jnk whereas they were not ideology based uh revolutions this is an ideology based revolution people keep getting people getting added people getting recruited they are being trained rigorously they are being


they are being trained rigorously they are being paid and they are being taken care and things like that the more you extinguish the more they grow it's like raw one side but we had one and ten others appear so how do you kill off the source see killing of the source is to see that the entire area which is a completely underdeveloped is developed the uh industries crop up people get jobs then uh the injustices heaped upon them by not giving or see for example as per the forest act the the tiller of the soil is the owner of the land but these guys who are tilling in this forest area they've got a forest act whatever forests produce in a year is belonging to them like tendupatha leaves you know that cigarette car the the bidi not cigarette that leaves are all collected by them the contractors come there's a lot of exploitation in that the any any forest product belongs to the people who are living in foreign but the government will unless they


are living in foreign but the government will unless they land a pata ownership document is given in maharashtra it's called satbara if that is not given he can't get a bank loan and the government doesn't recognize him as owner whereas as per the forest act all the produce is belonging to him so if that kind of a dichotomy they are kept away from all the governmental development schemes so this kind of anomaly which is there in the development thing has to be changed you have modi and vijay malaya and various others are getting twelve thousand crores on nine thousand crores bank alone do you think adivasi can go there and we will pledge what and which bank will entertain him beyond his loin cloth he doesn't have nothing else to i you know why i started a roti bank here because i've seen in garcia only people wearing women wearing only loin cloth or nothing else is not for fashion parade malabar hilar woman may be going with loin clothes because it's


woman may be going with loin clothes because it's the most fashionable thing to do but in adidas is there they eat red ants and crush it with salt and have it not because it's a delicacy but because they don't have access to food so that's why i started a roti bank and feeding 11 000 people a day in nagpur also in urban various places why is it because so much poverty is there and alleviation of poverty has to be done systematically you know building huge taj mahals and structures like that sending rockets to moon and mars is one but 800 million indians are going hungry in the pandemic time earlier it was 200 million people now today 800 million indians now these 800 million indians who are all youngsters like you if you don't have a job if you have no purchasing power what will you do you will do property crime you will do chain snatching by riding a motorcycle or pickpocketing or mobile snatching that's what is happening so amelioration


snatching that's what is happening so amelioration of poverty in a systematic way by giving purchasing power to people very one anomaly i want to tell you is that after green revolution earlier in 6567 when you are not born there was no food available it came from usa as pl 480 gunny bags of thousands of tons of wheat came and we all ate that broken wheat and things like that whereas after see subramanyama's agriculture minister dr agricultural uh scientists we got into green revolution now our growns are overflowing as on today 97 million tons of grain is overflowing in our good ones and the scope for even more growth now obviously when the crop pattern and all this change that you can grow in this room by putting a plate after plate you can grow mushrooms which will feed the entire bombay i have some friends who are agricultural entrepreneurs and that's what they keep highlighting that even um high quality farmers in india can still improve there are that many


in india can still improve there are that many improvements that have come up it's a crop pattern for example in this is not my subject i shouldn't be talking about it like in punjab repeatedly putting wheat and paddy they're used to multi-million tons of water which is not supposed to be wasted they have to change that is what the formula all about you know these guys should have immediately switch over to cash crop like putting brinjals vegetables bananas and various other things and allow the land not to become fallow sir you know um so coming back to what we were talking about i do you think that if you teach this red corridor uh i'm not saying everybody but a majority of them better agricultural tech and how to kind of improve the yields will it fix the problem so problem will not be fixed by uh teaching agriculture to anybody naxalite problem will be only solved by educating all of them see when i was there in naxalite


of them see when i was there in naxalite area 95 98 no government officer was there neither a primary health center nor a teacher nor not anybody was there so send all the government people give them the protection educate them take them out and show them what is the outside world all about so cut the recruitment route so that the recruitment of alibaba is inside this uh naxalite forces will be stopped and educate them give them employment take them in the police force and other forces so if you can do that and then only ultimately they should realize they are chasing a mirage the mirage is they're sitting in the government and running this government no chance no no political party we have we are entrenched in democracy and we are not going to allow any dictatorial thing like communism or any such people at all there yes two communist countries are there that is west bengal and kerala but then they are coming through elections yuti basu and various others you know you may not be


and various others you know you may not be knowing grand old people 40 years communist people were ruling west bengal before mamta banerjee came and threw them off in kerala even though others are all belonging communist party uda upa uh nda all that they say no so elected even in uh giving you an example in nepal the deputy prime minister prachanda is an accelerant yes sir so but they won the elections and they came um so i also definitely want to highlight jnk a little bit because and i'll tell you why i feel urban indians have very strong opinions about jnk without knowing the entire reality of what's happening there which only the police force and only the army actually knows and of course locals from jnk these are the only three parties that know now because i have an ips officer sitting in front of me i want to ask user what's happening there could you draw the real picture what's happening in 2021 see jnk the


picture what's happening in 2021 see jnk the main thing is that they have not completely uh merged with the indians uh indian uh culture and they have that special thing that they deserve uh that article 370 and special protection and things like that the other thing is even though we have spent millions of uh crores and dollars the real development has not reached there the minimum tourism is the only thing and apples and various other things are there so we have to bring in industry there we have to bring in education one odd cricketer becoming there or one odd ias officer becoming there is nothing great the youngsters they are all wanting jobs if you go for bsf recruitment or any recruitment for every 10 vacancies 10 000 people come and try and line up so we have to give them jobs we have to bring them in integrate them into uh this thing and this abrogation of things seventy they are not appreciating others are appreciating and the special powers of you and me not able


and the special powers of you and me not able to buy that land there the pandits having been driven out these are all sore wounds which are bleeding even now so all this has to be healed and they're looking up to pakistan now okay if you allow them to go and join pakistan tomorrow do you think they are going to happy pakistan their economy is in [ __ ] absolutely ten times they have borrowed from imf and others they have not been able to pay interest for them they are bailing out every time by borrowing money billions of dollars from others what do they produce have you seen a pakistani car or a truck or anything so but then they are doing jihadi uh export only so they are stroking the fire in pakistan this place our own uh that people uh various people who are the leaders of this and others the lady or her father they were all looking she thanked after the elections with democracy elections she won and that they formed the first thing she


she won and that they formed the first thing she thanked was pakistan so something in their psyche is very funny that they're looking up to pakistan as if they are the saviors this thing has to go it takes some time maybe schools colleges education infusion of jobs and people are going there and settling and things like that it'll take a long time for integration of and we are spending tons of money for the development it is not that we have neglected or ignored now of course this ut status has come jnk is taken away ladakh and all that so you give us a few years of time to for this to uh for them to come down to the reality and things will change and the pakistan all the time infiltrating and sending people and things like that pakistan is depend upon china for their misbehavior with us you know they have got a big brother who are encouraging them so let that cpec road get over and china treat pakistan as a province and then see what happens to


as a province and then see what happens to them and all that so in in geopolitical uh changes which are taking place every now and then uh a few years later things would all be in a different level altogether so our problems basically if you ask me internal security if these are the problem external security i will come back to say that the connection between pakistan and china is the biggest worry we should worry about what's your prediction for the next 20 years see we are becoming five trillion dollar economy our indians are all going there rolling in the jokula way in your young people's world they are ascending india usa then all people like you are all studying here b-tech and going to usa become a sundar pichai so our indians are going there and making them the uh so in that sense we are also going to become a y-5 trillion we can become 10 trillion 20 trillion dollar economy provided we lose this shackle call corruption if this corruption goes down and


call corruption if this corruption goes down and then if we can focus on development we'll be 5 10 trillion dollar economy i see that happening i am seeing 100 times not the green shoot i'm seeing a future absolutely bright but then consciously people like you and me should come together of course my time is over your time is beginning that's just that's why we're doing this see that the corruption is rooted out now corruption has to be rooted the biggest problem of the country is corruption there is a cancer which is growing so if that is taken care of five trillion dollar economy is not a this is on this this development kai other name is and all that but the point is can we focus on producing those small things which are around me here all these are chinese products so can we produce equally good quality products in india safety pindello shortly low but can we produce all those things can this easy all this sound and uh equipments which are having how much


this sound and uh equipments which are having how much is important and how much is product had we should focus on quality and produce things even price if it is little bit expensive i don't mind buying an indian product which is our high quality uh product reliable it has to be reliable and it has to be so if that happens definitely we are going to go up see we are the youngest nation in the country our english education computer education is every child in my building or in my neighborhood is a coding uh master five-year-old boy is talking about the other day i saw one boy the uncle is this 14c i said what is 14c this is the four which you have is it 14c or 13c you was asking i said i don't know have a look he said ah this 11c i said very nice he was a five six year old boy see the awareness see the education see the computer capabilities they have so we have to do exploitation of all this and grow our colleges and


exploitation of all this and grow our colleges and universities have to allow people to come up with creativity and productivity and scientific research and other things patterns for example patterns we must compete with the whole world and come up with patterns on very many things that way so if we do that if we are going to our guys are very very young in age but it's not the demographic dividend as they call is not going to last long how long are we going to become one day you are now today if you are 28 you are going to become 71 like me one day but before that you have to reap the benefit now of being young yeah i think we will sir hopefully of course i am very optimistic from what i have seen from my school days to now tremendous uh things have come into work you know uh my studies for content took me into something called the great japanese economic miracle which is what happened after world war i second world war yeah you know i went before


i second world war yeah you know i went before just before this uh uh this uh pandemic i went to japan for 12 days what a country incredible yeah but those guys at that time november 2019 they had the mass and they were maintained six feet distance and the kovalev was not at the scene it is their culture okay this is their culture discipline and productivity yeah productivities whenever they wanted to strike they produced more fumble now what do i do with this yeah the famous story since uh youngsters are listening to me ibm placed an order of some 10 000 product and they contract my likata 10 pieces per thousand could be defective uh you know margin they give so these people don't know what is the defective product so they the thousand out of thousand has to be perfect product so they worked overtime to see that 10 defective pieces are produced and they left a letter saying that these 10 products per thousand we are giving you because you ask for you mentioned in your contact


you because you ask for you mentioned in your contact that written defect imagine that kind of culture can you have that yeah you know you know so i i mean i don't know if you'll reach that kind of level because japan i feel for hundreds and hundreds of years they've had some kind of discipline levels in their culture so maybe it'll take us time but we can learn from the productivity hacks japan if you read history before world war two they were the most cruel people yeah and uh all that happened like attack and all that so they were evolution is very fast and very good and they of course were buddhists and the buddhas buddhas buddhism went from here and things like that they have cultural ties with us but then they evolved very fast so even though they were evil i think power got to their heads but there was a sense of discipline productivity of course um um so my solution to the india problem honestly is what i call ethical capitalism mixed with uh


is what i call ethical capitalism mixed with uh far spread education uh ethical capitalism hopefully i believe will happen through people who are doing it like entrepreneurs who stand for ethics secondly it probably can happen to content like this and third i think it'll happen to storytelling you know fiction because that's what really enters a human mind really deeply what i as a policeman is uh getting uh scared off is i read the other day that in the last five six seven years five lakh indians have moved away from this country they've gone to foreign countries and uh quite a few thousands of people are million dollar entrepreneurs like you uh people who are enterprising nature so every in a million dollar entrepreneur who moved away from here has taken away the potential job he would have created the unicorn concept which you are talking about those unicorn guys have gone away there and they are making in america great so that is a dangerous we have to have a reverse brain drain and we have to cr


have a reverse brain drain and we have to cr hold on to these people who are going away to usa every average indian middle class family is boasting that their two children are in the usa in the silicon valley so this if unless this changes our country but only point is when those guys come back do we give them a conducive environment where they feel happy so conducive environment has started to form now because of the startup but the corruption is what they are bugged about the indian boys like you girls who have gone there they are willing to come here and work provided they don't have to go and stand in front of these red tapes and bureaucrats and others get hauled by income tax and the ed and various others like you create a unicorn your growth has to be celebrated i should put a red carpet for you instead of that if i get you visited by ed and income tax and customs and various others the this pandemic time i still remember one boy living in my


time i still remember one boy living in my building had a few million dollar worth of sulphur waiting in kandala kandalkanda port and he could not go to gujarat and he could not go to delhi and he could not clear all those things where it was going to china but if i were the government officer in charge of that i would have come home and i would have given him clearance because it was bringing to india quite a few million dollars million yeah but if a government fellow said what the hell you know what the heck if your mall is not going if you are not going to china or how do i care if this attitude changes that foreign currency was coming to our country government is going to benefit if that attitude doesn't change and because you join the ips or irs or ias you should say that it's a file i don't care about the man behind the file speaking about china so i know geopolitics is a subject that interests you a lot um what is the


subject that interests you a lot um what is the geopolitical picture when it comes to this india versus china situation over 20 they are 10 times bigger than in everything we can only compare our population in the army navy air force and this thing in the gdp and various other things they are 10 times bigger than us and they don't care a damn about it i want you and all other people to read a book by a man called michael filsbury michael filsbury filsbury p h i l s d u r y it is called hundred year marathon by china for overtaking usa and reached the top that's the time so from 1949 to 2049 is a 100 year period one policy one thing one focus they wanted to go at it and become the most powerful country not to give you democracy not to give you soft treatment to give you one solid punch on the nose with the steel hand they wanted to have that position and this guy who's there present now has all


and this guy who's there present now has all things already has reached that position so he's having a fight with the south china sea with the philippines president with everybody even with biden and various others he's having a problem all over because they think they have reached they are trying to replace dollar by the chinese currency and the you know united nations they are occupying all important places so china is not a major problem for india alone it's china is a major problem for the whole world for example this one virus isn't it the bio war they have created how many million people have died how many people have the guts to say that it is from there and w ho chief of doll when there did some investigation they didn't allow anything but they came back they couldn't prove that it is a bat versus rat or rat versus cat yeah they had also given wrong inputs about the virus and everything but what action was taken by everybody so that way china is becoming stronger and stronger