probably the core of his powers as well of his power as well but ultimately what is he doing he's he's spinning you a narrative yeah uh and i would say the same for trump gaining power in the u.s he did the same for u.s citizens greatest politicians whether it was indira gandhi whether it was trump whether it was john f kennedy all of them without doubt were wonderful storytellers i want to highlight something here um i asked you in the morning how you came across my work and you highlighted the conversation with gore gopal yes for me as a podcast i gained from each conversation yes what i gained from that was a ton of things including spiritual wisdom yes but as a brand when i observed gorgo palladas prabhu i thought to myself that the separating fact of him is that he's saying some very deep stuff but beginning it with a story exactly and and i started incorporating that into all my creative work and i saw


that into all my creative work and i saw that our numbers rose because of that my writing became better absolutely so you know people ask me they say uh ashwin how do you go about telling a story and you know what is involved in that it must be so complex and i say you know what when i'm writing a novel i don't think i'm writing a novel in fact the one thing that i don't do is writing i have always believed that i am not a writer i am a storyteller and what does that imply i think that i am sitting inside a room and there is a circle of 10 friends around me interesting i'm narrating it and these 10 people you know i'm sorry i take these little side trips but the great bollywood uh the great hollywood director alfred hitchcock he said that the length or the duration of a film is related to the endurance of the human bladder so you can only have a film which is as long as the capacity of the human


which is as long as the capacity of the human bladder because after that you'll need to get up and take a bathroom break [Music] so i think that there are these 10 people in the room and i'm telling them a story and three out of them need to get up and take a bathroom break but they don't interrupt me and they don't get up and they sit there and hear the story because the story is so riveting ultimately that's what you need to visualize as a storyteller that how do you get someone to turn the page you know we keep talking about how modern day education doesn't uh serve the needs of a modern day professional the one big professional skill that i realized was very crucial later on in my career was storytelling absolutely if you can begin to tell stories at 22 23 it is going to be such an edge for you in terms of making money as well in terms of professional success learn to speak through stories that's right it just makes you better communicator the core


right it just makes you better communicator the core of good communication is storytelling they say not that the shortest distance between two people is a story so the easiest way to reach you is by by by giving you a story which brings me back to pm modi you may love him you may hate him you may have your own opinions about his political ideologies amicha's political ideologies but as you said earlier on this podcast that the politics of today is the history of tomorrow yeah i strongly anticipate people are going to look back at pm modi and say that listen this is a person who rose to power because of his ability to do the good storytelling i mean that's that's how he grew up about this did winston churchill go out and fight world war ii he didn't i mean all it required was for him to say that all i have to offer you is blood sweat toil and tears and he was able to he was able to muster up the support of the


he was able to muster up the support of the entire country i mean if you look at churchill he was the greatest storyteller of them all you may hate the guy because of the fact that he when the bengal famine happened and his secretaries from india wrote to him saying that millions are dying he wrote in the margins has gandhi died yet or not i mean this was the man but does that take away from the fact that he was a great storyteller uh so uh on but on the flip side of winston churchill is that adolf hitler was also a great storyteller and so as a result of which he could take the country into a complete damnation as it were so ultimately stories are there whether they result in good or whether they result in bad or near can never be revealed by the story it's a means yeah it you can take it you can take it you can use the story to spin something very very positive and you can spin it into


something very very positive and you can spin it into something very very negative sorry [Music] you you can in some ways we don't realize what the power of thought is you know which is also why i always encourage people to read sapiens by you allah harari he's highlighting the best books ever ever yeah that's what like you know sometimes we get criticized on the show for bringing up that book and that right or so why because i see my belief is that you should read a few books in your life and read them well into retaining everything yeah uh subject to the fact that there should be that many heavy books and i've read a couple of his books both of which have been incredibly heavy and have given me so much just as a human mind yeah which is why i keep directing people to you know speaking about the concept of storytelling he's spoken about how when human beings were evolving from cavemen a big part of our journey of evolution was when we began to actually tell


of evolution was when we began to actually tell stories because stories had this ability to grip groups of people of course and bring people together towards a collective task and that was the origins of religion as well of course the ramayana for example uh you have such completely different narratives within each version of the ramayana but the core the core objective still remains that duty above all else [Music] because if you look at let's say uh the original valmiki ramayana ram is not an after of vishnu he's just a human being but by the time you come to the tulasi rama he's become a vishnu of tara and he can do in some ways no wrong uh uh he's mariada pursutham uh and similarly if you take let's say for example other versions like for example the anandrama and the advodrama you know in if in in some of the versions you have for example uh the the final killing of ravana is not happening uh at the hands of


ravana is not happening uh at the hands of ram uh it is happening uh at the hands of sita because manifested herself as durka and then eventually kills ravan uh if you have a version known as the jain rama and in the jain rama and it's lakshman who kills raval or for example you have you have the the the lao ramayan which is the buddhist ramayana in which ram is a bodhisattva so each one narrated their story from their own anger from their own perspective but that didn't take away from the essence of what that story was trying to convey to you it was cs lewis who said that a myth is a lie that reveals the truth all myths are ultimately made up but what they are trying to convey to you is a deeper truth and that is what makes mythology so fascinating but in my case for me my storytelling has become exciting because i'm again going to make a small diversion here i had just


going to make a small diversion here i had just written my first novel the rosa byline and i had been invited by a university in kolkata and i finished my lecture and i had a little time on my hand in the afternoon because my flight was the next morning so i told my driver i said take me to some interesting place so he said saba mandir now if you are in kalkata it is taken for granted he is going to take you to a durga temple kali mandir he took me to a temple the road was known as sridhar roy road we stopped outside a very unassuming structure we walked in it had it was about the size of this room four bare walls whitewashed in the middle of the room there was a green colored throne marble throne and there were people there lighting agar bhatti's doing arti chanting prayers and ranveer i sat there watched this for a while and then when i looked closely i realized that on the throne


looked closely i realized that on the throne there was a portrait of amitabh bachchan so unassuming driver had taken me to an amitabh mandir and on that throne there was a pair of shoes that had been used by amitabh in the shooting of cooli wow so i pinched myself i thought to myself is this real or have i entered into some alternate dimension are these guys for real i came out of the mandir and i was waiting for my car to pick me up and a little boy had a basket and which contained agar bhattis and pool and pal and prasad uh actually meant for people who were going in uh i had not seen him by going in but i saw him by coming out he came and said sabap picked up only one thing from him it was a small little book a prayer booklet it was known as the amitabh chalisa the amitabh one day i will read it out to you uh instead of the hanuman chalisa it is the amitabh


of the hanuman chalisa it is the amitabh chalisa and i was thinking to myself i said okay ashwin now you're standing here outside this pandar and you're waiting for the car to come and pick you up now what in case your car comes at a very high speed and he is unable to slam on the brakes and you get knocked down and you die on the spot and now as per the law of karma you take birth a thousand years later and a thousand years later the cult of amitabh worship has really caught on now there isn't one temple dedicated to amitabh there are one million temples dedicated to amitabh he is treated as a great great god and someone taps you on the shoulder and asks you the question do you think that amitabh could have been a real historical figure now today today we know that he is a historical figure that he exists but a thousand years from today he has acquired a mythological status so we question could he be real


mythological status so we question could he be real [Music] and for me that is that lovely tantalizing what if question that what if something were real so we are asking ourselves today about ram and krishna but would 300 versions of the ramayana have been written in case there wasn't some great man who did something very great which resulted in his story being told and with every successive telling people layered on their own ideas their own perspectives so as a result of which it became very difficult to separate fact from fiction amitabh bachchan's brand and his power comes from a place of being a part of a ton of beautiful fictional stories which we call amitabh bachchan movements but they're the stories that stay in people's heads that's why bollywood stands where it stands in our country as a part of our country's culture yes fiction is a weapon which can be used by the pm of the country to drive narratives it can be used as the uh kind of core behind religion starting out


the uh kind of core behind religion starting out yes and it is a human skill that begins with storytelling in the now if you're 22 23 learn to tell good stories by the time your 30 learn to sell good stories yes i i think i i think whether frankly i don't see the divide between fact and fiction uh because a lot of the stuff that we consider as fact is actually fiction i mean for example i wrote the book chanakya's chant most of my research for chanakya's chant came from a sanskrit play known as mudra rakshas and mudra rakshas was written almost 700 years after the lifetime of kalthalya [Music] and it was written as a play that was meant to be performed on stage so what if what if vishaka datta the author of the mudra rakshas was today was that times ashwin sanghi who was taking little bit of fact little bit of fiction and mixing it up and in order to spin a grip a good yarn so


order to spin a grip a good yarn so in that sense even the books that have engrossed you you talked about sapiens but ultimately that was also a bloody good story because it was it kept you hooked collection of good stories but it kept you hooked at the end of the day that's the most important thing when i'm writing a novel i ask my editor from time to time to read it in in the interim stages and at that point of time i don't ask them is the grammar right or is is the language right i'm saying did you turn the page or did the page turn itself if you had to turn the page then that means i'm not doing a good job as a writer it should be an automatic process where you feel compelled so people ask me what does it take to become a bestseller i say three simple very rules three simple rules and it does it's not rocket science the first paragraph should be like a mumbai pothole the reader should fall into that


a mumbai pothole the reader should fall into that pothole with very little chance of getting out so you've trapped your reader into that story in james patterson's case he says put a dead body in page one so it's essentially get the person sucked into your web second every chapter should end on a hook a hook which forces him to get propelled into the next chapter and your final paragraph of the book should be a sense of contentment should make a person feel that thus all the pending issues have got resolved but most importantly for a best-selling author it should make someone look out for your next book because then that will keep the cycle going so i think all of those three are very very simple but they need to be emphatically and religiously and persistently followed through i would say is that even if you do succeed your book gets published you become successful people you have a legion of adoring fans the royalty checks become very very interesting don't leave your feet off the ground let keep


don't leave your feet off the ground let keep your feet on the ground remember that every word that you put down on that piece of paper were not from you they were through you it was ma saraswati who was guiding your hand with every word that you penned wow ashran sankisa thank you thank you for getting me into the habit of reading firstly i don't think i thanked you for that till this moment that's what i was holding back when we having a conversation outside thank you ranveer i'm delighted i always get excited by the fact that when i come for interviews or talks and there are young people by my yardstick you are young because there is about 20 audios that separates us but when people come to me and they say that you know you you either inspired me to pick up my first book or that a particular book changed my way of thinking or that it inspired me to read another book which uh which you had referred to in your original novel i'll


you had referred to in your original novel i'll tell you the excitement that it gives to me when i hear those words is more than the excitement of the cash registers ringing let me just add an anecdote here um lots of people at our motivational talks ask us about how to get into a habit of reading and as a motivational speaker you usually speak from your own experience this is what i helped me i think this is what will help you so whenever someone asks me that question chanakya's channel flashes in my head and i ask myself what did i like in that book today you answer it which is your kind of methodical storytelling and just whatever you put inside but there was some magic in that book that got me into the habit of reading you know you'd be surprised since you since you talked about chanakya's chant it's important for me to tell you that for most people the story emerges from a from a moment of flash there's a flash so for


from a moment of flash there's a flash so for example the roosevelt line i i was on a chance visit in srinagar and my driver took me to the shrine in the heart of srinagar and then there is a body which is laid out in the north-south axis islamic burial but there is a previous burial which is underneath it which is east west outside the tomb there is a carving which shows a pair of human feet with crucifixion marks and it just got me so excited that wow could the story of christ in india be real but with chanakya's chant it was the 2000 2009 general election and i was wondering i said politics is so messy in this country but was politics always so messy we talk of the good old days but what the good old days is really good and uh you know that there are there it was i think it was said no that uh politics is merely war without bloodshed so in that sense i was wondering that today's


so in that sense i was wondering that today's politics could be equated to ancient warfare the only difference is the lack of blood uh and that got me thinking that okay if today chanakya existed in today's world what would that chanakya look like and that resulted in the story of chanakya's chant but what i realized was that what was most important was that the vast majority of people who were reading that story for them it was their very first exposure to chanakya through my novel people hadn't read the mudra rakshas they had not read the arthashastra they had not read the niti sastra their first exposure to chanakya was through chanakya's chant and that's when i realized that this play between fact and fiction and not knowing when you have switched from fact into fiction and fiction into fact is a very very tantalizing possibility uh and i think that's what makes most of these books uh so readable because of the fact that they play on that what if


of the fact that they play on that what if question what if krishna was real what if the mahabharata really happened what in case our ancient seers were actually looking into the very same concepts that quantum theorists are looking into so that that is a very delicious conspiracy question what if maybe it's a nice way to end this particular episode as well sir because i know that the next time we're going to be recording this that's what we're going to be tapping into all the quantum physics overlaps with like the ancient indian culture but for this episode so thank you i think we touched upon a lot of different topics and the audience got a nice kind of intro to everything that you have accumulated in terms of knowledge throughout your life thank you so much ranveer it's been a pleasure meek on your show and god bless you and may this show continue to rake in millions of visitors not that you need them you already have a tremendous fan following of your


you already have a tremendous fan following of your own but i i hope and i wish and i pray that ma saraswati continues to bless you thank you thank you sir that means a lot might just end this episode with uh sweetheart these are some of the questions i've always wanted to ask him but when i met him in person what struck me was his happiness levels was how comfortable he was with his entire life how comfortable he was with his own mind and comfort is always an outcome of wisdom that's what i got through this podcast the wisdom of one of india's most celebrated authors remember guys for more wisdom like this follow us on spotify every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world lots of episodes with established mainstream indian and international authors coming up on the ranvir show [Music]


today's fantastic inspirational episode features john abraham he's someone i've wanted to podcast with ever since this podcast began and i finally got the opportunity to dig deeper into his mind he's someone i took inspiration from as a teenager and he's someone who inspired me to take up fitness and weight training in my own life i grew up watching his interviews and the things he said about staying fit and healthy really stayed with me as i grew up in fact when we started beer biceps we actually had a series called bollywood bodies where i spoke about how you can target different muscle groups using different types of weight training and one of those episodes was entirely based on john abraham through the course of this particular podcast he told me how he's already checked out beer biceps and he had checked out that content piece from back then this and many more dream moments happened over the course of this conversation it was one of the most memorable conversations for me personally remember guys


most memorable conversations for me personally remember guys through trs i'm just trying to have these heartfelt deep conversations with people that i look up to people that i wish to learn from and i hope that you enjoy these conversations as much as i do remember to follow us on spotify very spotify exclusive which means that every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world john's new movie attack is going to be live in cinema halls on the 1st of april 2022 but for now enjoy this extremely heartfelt episode of the ranvier show [Music] johnny braham welcome to the ranvi show thank you thank you for having me how are you feeling good a little uh tired but uh always excited to get back to my workout after this yeah john abraham gets tired yeah i mean mentally you know you're exhausted but otherwise i'm good i'm really good so i mean like a very genuine question to you i'm not asking you johnny where i'm just asking


i'm not asking you johnny where i'm just asking you as an older person what happens with age you know especially to a man's mind i think with the age a man gets more aware about his age first uh a man starts uh thinking about uh his energy levels as to how he can compete how he can do things how he can play a football match for one and a half hours how he can train for a couple of hours you know so i think a man starts getting more of a aware about his age maybe when his hair also starts falling you know that it sounds crazy it sounds very narcissistic but you know these are things that affect men a lot of you know when there's a lot of loss of muscle for example for someone who's into training uh these are things that kind of plague men but uh on on the emotional side um a men kind of get into and i think people get into with age people get into retrospection you think about how you spent your life like


you think about how you spent your life like you're you're far younger than i am so you know i've traveled that journey and i look back and i think about all the mistakes i made and i think about all the things that are done right and then i realized that there's very little that i've done right and there's a lot of it that i've done not so right would you be open to sharing some mistakes yeah i mean i don't think i've treated some people very fairly in my life you know even though i didn't mean to growing up for example i could have been a better human being i could have been a better partner i could have been a better son i could have been a better person i could have been a better student um but yeah i felt short and i'm not trying to be philosophical here philosophically i think i felt short on i wouldn't say a lot of counts on all counts i'm not really matched up so that's what age does for you it


matched up so that's what age does for you it makes you sit back and think about what what have we really done right you know how can you mend it what can you how can you course correct can you course correct are you still making the same mistakes and somewhere down the line we still make the same mistakes so it's just i think it's a way of life there are those days in life runway which i'm sure even you must be you know because you seem very spiritual you have the buddha in your house for example i'm shocked that you've seen my house i love your house i love your house i love you i love your hall i love the way you've played with colors thank you so much your bedroom because of netherlands you know because of the football aspect that was my that's my dad's favorite football team and that's been our favorite football team growing up wow you know dutch football team and then you know you spoke about blue and you said blue's not my favorite color


about blue and you said blue's not my favorite color but i don't know what it does to me yeah for example you know so i think uh you know spirituality is something that creeps in over a period of time are you happy now honestly no honestly no because you're always wanting something more not materialistic you're always looking for something that you don't have you know if i sit back and i look at it from the outside perspective ranveer i if someone looks at john abraham they'll say but he's got all the bikes in the world he's got a great guy he's got a great family he's got he's got a house he's probably got money he's got everything so he should be happy technically i would tick a lot of boxes but when i sit back and i look at myself am i really happy answers no can i just give you two sentences of course and then answer the same question again like every woman for you at some point has been attracted to john abraham and every guy


has been attracted to john abraham and every guy here at some point has been inspired by you at some point in their own life because we've like grown up watching you and you know grithik roshan you both together started this whole weight training culture in india i don't even think it was that prevalent so you've had like a cultural impact on your country through your work that doesn't account for giving you the happiness that you deserve at this age it gives me it gives me a lot of happiness and it makes me feel so good when you say it ranveer and i thank you for saying it and thank you for making me feel special but you know when you're alone when you're sitting in your house in fact you know you said it you need your alone time you like to sit alone sometimes you know what i'm saying when i sit alone and i retrospect there are times that kind of take me down there are also times that make me feel a little high so i


times that make me feel a little high so i think happiness is a state of mind what's missing in your life this i you know i can't put a finger on it but uh if i had to put a finger on something i'd love to travel every day of my life for example i'd love to wake up in a new city i'd love to probably be in the with the motorcycles in in the himalayas for example but this is all i romanticize about things i don't really do it so i'll have to tell you this i have a friend my age cool guy everything i called him on his birthday i said where are you you think john you haven't called me in a year and i said yeah man it's been a long time he's saying i've settled down in palma in spain in so palmas is the capital of this uh island in mayorka yeah okay he settled down there and he told me something very interesting he said you know john you talk about doing these things in


you know john you talk about doing these things in your life i've actually done it so i'm happier than you are which he is he plays tennis for two hours in the morning goes in his convertible goes to a cafeteria at the side of the road has his coffee figures out and says hey listen today i just want to go for a trek or climb a mountain i'll do that i have a rude question to you yeah how have you like survived for so long like because when i talk to someone who's around your age your 70s born 70s or 80s more people from media i always ask them that what's the big battle in this industry and they say the battle for relevance and you've maintained your relevance like over a long time and i feel that the core of it is gyming because it it gives you discipline it gives you much more than a body totally totally uh correct me if i'm wrong absolutely but other than that like how have you actually managed to


other than that like how have you actually managed to survive for so long i think you've answered the question in your question i've survived i've not lived there's a difference you know you you you either exist or you live when when you live you appreciate life and there are times in my life where i've lived and i've appreciated life and i woke up smiling but the rest of the time i've survived you've given away pieces of yourself i've given away pieces of myself i've just probably and i don't mean to sound pessimistic about life all the time but i've kind of i mean imagine i've just kept my head above the water where my nostrils are just above the water and i'm looking not for relevance but just finding self-peace so i've just about survived do you gain it from work only from work and work so a lot of people say that uh money can't buy you happiness and i agree but money can buy you very close to it so i think


can buy you very close to it so i think i've survived for a large part of my life just working and earning money and giving and supporting my family and that gives me a lot of happiness how do you feel when a movie like attack is just about to release i mean are you still nervous even at this stage no so i uh but the thing is i get nervous when i sign a film runway that's when i get nervous and honestly that's when i know kyogre mayfield and i'll tell you this about every film of mine without i don't need to be politically correct about it i know sometimes i do the film for the sake of a franchise knowing that it won't do well sometimes i do a film because i love the concept sometimes i do a film because i feel content wise it's probably the best film for me to do but i pretty much know the fate of a lot of films of mine so i don't feel nervous around the release how do


i don't feel nervous around the release how do you see your career panning out like what's the trajectory why do you want to take it so ranvir very honestly i think i lost the john abraham that i was in 2018 19 pre pandemic somewhere because um i really didn't do films that i believed in you know i think butler house is probably the last or maybe madras cafe before that or you know and i think i'm finding that space again will i do commercial films yeah of course i will do a one-off commercial film and i'll enjoy it and i'm not condescending towards it but i really want to do the kind of content that i believe in like if you ask me which is my favorite film i i probably tell you no smoking you know and people are like what this how can that be your favorite film but no i enjoyed it so i think people have built their careers on successes i think i built my career on failures and like someone very interestingly


my career on failures and like someone very interestingly told me that john you built your career on on the choices you've made and most of them have failed but you've survived you've survived you've survived those because i'm known for the choices i make and my choices are not always commercial and when they're purely commercial more often than not they failed how do you survive through failure man like that when you add that low moment of failure that's actually where a lot of people choose to not continue is it just about continuing it's just about believing in yourself if tomorrow someone tells you for example god forbid says your podcast is not working you know beer biceps is not working and you go back you sit in your beautiful home sit in your hall on your blue sofa and you're looking around and you're looking at the sea from your balcony and you say you know there are two things that can happen to you either you have a feeling of self-doubt and you say no yeah


feeling of self-doubt and you say no yeah i want to shut shop on everything yeah i just don't want to do this must have crept crept up in your mind a lot or you just sit alone and you ask yourself one question am i worth it do i have the conviction in myself to make this happen if your answer is the latter you'll make it happen you will make it happen you'll survive you can have 10 failures and i could have someone sit in front of me saying which is your normal press question that an entertainment journalist usually asks expectation you know that's a question you ask how do you answer a question like that you have to be very confident about yourself and say no i'll continue i'll survive at the most what runway if my fee is 10 rupees i'll have to do it at one rupee i have to do it free but i'll do what i'm convinced about do you have any anger in you are you an angry person at


any anger in you are you an angry person at all oh you get you're so like polite you're so and i've been seeing you in talk shows since maybe 15 years now and that's what i've always noticed about it even when i was a kid i said this is such a polite person so i can't do you ever get angry what are your flaws i do but my anger is very internalized and i think people very close to me around me see me when i'm upset and but when i'm upset i don't explode i implode i implore but if you ask me whether i get angry and i hold someone's neck and i kind of just scream and i bash no the reason i ask you this is because i was trying to figure a theme for this conversation like somewhere as a creative i have to think of something beyond just the person correct and uh right now there's a lot of chat all over the world i think this is post pandemic where we're talking a lot about men's


pandemic where we're talking a lot about men's emotional health which is something that's not spoken about a lot so good yeah mental health great it's addressed but there is this aspect of emotional health which is different it usually results from guys not being taught how to cry and guys not being taught how to emote themselves correct and i think the older you get as a man uh what you spoke about age and reflection this is a part of it yeah but have you ever thought of this like have you ever thought of baggage and things you've like just buried inside yeah all the time yeah all the time there are things there are skeletons still in my cupboard that haven't really come out uh there are things that i'm i'm being honest i'm speaking man-to-man there are things that i'm freaking extremely embarrassed about you know in life um but there are things that i've also learned i've also course corrected a lot in in the way i behave in the way i conduct


in the way i behave in the way i conduct myself in the way i behave with other people when a third person is not watching you don't necessarily a man's character is not known by the things he does because others are watching but it's known by the things he does when people are not watching that's most important it's how you behave with your subordinates when you're all alone how you behave with if you call them subordinates like all the people working with me but you know how mates yeah just how you behave with people in general how do you behave with yourself how do you conduct yourself me i was a late bloomer so i started experiencing things at the age of like 25 26 and then things in life started opening up opening up opening up so today my director's like all flustered for example and he comes and he says john there's not enough awareness about the film what do we do what do we do i don't get flustered but i see why he's


don't get flustered but i see why he's flustered it's it's the the beginning of his career he's worried and he has every right to be and it's my job and my duty to make him understand that no we'll do whatever we can but i don't get flustered like he does i know that if the film's good it'll work and ranveer it's it's a great opportunity to do this interview with you but by doing this interview with you uh you know it's not going to guarantee 10 more ticket sales for my film i'm just honestly i was i'll be very honest i was getting an option and i happened to see uh you know your vlog and a couple of things you've done and i really enjoyed it i really enjoyed it so i i'm looking at this as an excuse you know very honestly i'm not doing this and i'm being i'm seeing this on record this is not a promotional campaign for me it's not a promotional campaign


promotional campaign for me it's not a promotional campaign because i and i say this again and again the best promotion for a film is the film itself you make a crap film it's never going to work you can promote it till the cows come home you make a good film and you don't promote it for a single day it'll work it may open low but it'll work and that's always been my fundamental in life that's the mba inside you speaking totally which is which is my question to you i have a couple of questions i've always wanted to ask you because my mom used to use you as an example to tell me hey you better you do your mba in life no no no that was that's flying beast i am an engineer but i'm not sure but you know your wikipedia shows id kharagpur must be must be a message yeah please check out when you want to google it says i don't know why no i i think they they assume that all you engineer turned


i think they they assume that all you engineer turned youtubers from iit for some reason okay so you're an engineer yes from uh from dj sangri it's a college yeah um so any mechanical mechanical i did electronics and telecom okay yeah so i was always you were used as a reference point uh when my parents wanted me to do an mba now i think i've just got so much going on that i can't take away from this momentum yeah but i have a couple of questions i want to ask you one did it help you in your career i wanna know the honest answer to can the mba inside you kind of give us an a small kind of essay on what the world of indian films is like because i feel that there are very few mba so you would have had some sort of a lens to view this film world with i'd love to know it from you so to answer your first question did my mba help me right yeah yes it did okay because it's not


me right yeah yes it did okay because it's not about the certificate or the degree you have it gives you the power to choose what is right from wrong or what you believe is right from the wrong so uh gives me uh the power to make a very educated choice on what i'm selecting or what i'm doing and this isn't just films these are all your choices in your everything everything including for example just imagine a combination of self-conviction and doing your mba honestly barring a couple of films like new york taxi nado gyara kabul express water zinda no smoking or whatever jason another could count them on my fingers i was honestly very unhappy with the films i was doing which is why i decided to become a producer i became a producer because the mba in me said you can manage this process management you can manage this process you can become a producer and you can make the content that you believe in self-conviction so i married the two i married the fact


so i married the two i married the fact that i have self-conviction and i have the education to back it and do the kind of films i want to is it a calculated risk yes it's a risk what's the other saying in mba the higher the risk the greater the profit i took that risk fortunately it worked for me it could not have worked for me imagine your first film being wiki don't know a story of a sperm donor okay i was offered wiki donor calculated risk i said i'm not the right person for it i'm the wrongest person for the right person as this gentleman called ayushman karana calculated risk fantastic actor worked in that space worked perfectly there so i think mba helps your second question um your second question what is the world of indian films like but from an mba's perspective so when i came into the industry uh from an mba's perspective when i saw the film industry i thought it was the most disorganized fragmented industry period i also felt and


most disorganized fragmented industry period i also felt and without sounding condescending because there's a lot of method in the madness that i didn't identify or understand i also felt that there was no thought process behind making what was being made i felt there was a sense of herd mentality if one person makes something that works everybody makes nothing from an mba perspective i found the film industry very disorganized zero thought process today the setup of the industry is far more organized the thought process is still where it was we've not evolved we've not evolved we're still there are very few of us who've evolved but we're still looking at the west for a model we're still looking at content from including myself and i put myself in the same category we're still looking at content from the south to have a crutch on because how does the south create and we don't i don't understand our technicians work and do the best special effects for hollywood why can't we do 100 of that in our own country


can't we do 100 of that in our own country why and through the mba perspective why is an actor's fee 50 of the budget of a film you know i'm saying just so where does the buck stop for an actor or for talent to say that hey listen i want to contribute to cinema and not to myself now because i can have my three meals a day i'm saying these are relevant questions sure you know and i think uh when i look at it that way i think it's still a race out there so if someone says hey i've announced five films the next person says i've announced four ten my fee is fifty my fee is hundred my fees hundred you're not looking at the real picture the real picture is creating cinema and i say this saying that there is and i say this on record and i say this to you and i say this to all these listeners all these watchers please don't be afraid of failure fail fail there's nothing wrong with failing failing


failure fail fail there's nothing wrong with failing failing will only make you stronger failing will only teach you failing does not necessarily mean you've gone wrong failing could also mean that people have not seen what you're seeing probably at that point of time so have faith in yourself and i always come back to these two words self-conviction i hear you about the self-conviction and for me this isn't a conversation between a youtuber and an actor it's just a conversation between two gym bros somewhere yeah i feel like i've just met you in some gym yeah and i'm having a giving conversation with you keeping that in mind uh i've been getting into neuroscience a lot lately i saw something on your your bicep workout that you were talking about and you you generously spoke about me also right wow you you you know what i saw wow you know when i made that video so it was yeah you need to keep making gimmicks on youtube so my series uh to get more


on youtube so my series uh to get more views i called it bollywood bodies back in the day yeah and i said this one's legs but john abraham's arms i remember that yeah yeah wow you saw that yeah i saw that i saw that and i saw the ice detail with which you did the the the structure for the long head the short head of the triceps everything it is like fantastic man at that point in 2015 i used to pray to god every night that it reaches one of the guys i've made it on wow this is like this is a huge moment i saw it quite some time ago and i was very impressed with the way you were talking about it and whether you're talking about repetitions and you know form and yeah i mean in at that point i was a very big fitness nerd i still am but from from like a different perspective now yeah that time i was like in the subject but either way um you you've been a part of that entire journey


you you've been a part of that entire journey man yeah somewhere like you know you and me adopting lifting weights was because i saw the whom i saw force growing up and i said you know i want that in life so anyway coming back to uh what i wanted to ask you neuroscience says that any motivation you have in life and it could be anything it could be making a body or making your career or taking your career forward is always from one of two places a place of love or a place of fear and 99 of the time it's from yeah from fear though people might romantically know of course it's because of love yeah and some people might say it's love for my wife love for my mom but it's actually because you don't you have the fear of seeing them suffer that's why you're working hard it's still fear um and i've come to peace with that i feel like i'm i'm definitely working from some place of yeah i don't want i don't want to


of yeah i don't want i don't want to not live up to my potential i want to live up to my potential and that's the fear story i'm cooked up in my head at age 28 but i have to ask you like why are you working so hard in life generally like and it's things like we hear people say that you know and i know it's true you don't have cheat meals so there is a part of yourself that has really pushed the discipline into your system into your mind into your lifestyle absolutely what's the underlying why like why are you being this intense on yourself and i'm not i'm not accusing you of being condescending i'm asking to seek inspiration yeah um again i think you know you're you're very insightful and you're very smart i think you answered the question i think it's the fear of losing everything you know i've built everything with you know coming from a very middle-class background uh coming with 550 rupees in the bank of maharashtra in your


550 rupees in the bank of maharashtra in your account and coming to where i have come to wherever little i've come to there's always this uh fear in a middle-class guy's head that he may lose everything and he may go go back to where he started from so there's one side of me that says no i can't give up being disciplined because i've worked so hard for it i worked so hard for it so hard for it i don't deserve to have a cheat meal i lose my career that one shot is a matter of life and death for me you know so fear is the biggest motivator for me to to stay where i am and then this ecosystem and uh i mean i could give you 10 000 philosophical reasons but honestly it's a fear of losing everything the other side of me which is a one you know i wake up one day in a month and i tell someone you know what i started at 550 rupees at the most what i'll go to zero


rupees at the most what i'll go to zero i'd have lost 550 rupees the whole circle of things but that's not really it it's building so much over a period of time so you don't want to lose it because you so cautiously and lovingly built up so much with so much of hard work because so much of whatever credibility i have had you know and i don't want to lose it which is why training is important diet is important choosing films is important films working is important you know um going vegetarian was very good for my mental health in the long term are you vegetarian no okay uh have you also switched so uh runway very honestly i don't profess and i don't tell people to be vegetarian and that's not my job and i will not do that uh but yeah as as my lifestyle and i'm not saying that's good or bad because there are arguments in sure on both sides on both sides and it's a personal choice yeah so as a in a personal space i


choice yeah so as a in a personal space i do consume eggs occasionally uh very occasionally very very occasionally but i don't consume milk butter nothing nothing nothing and yes i am vegetarian it makes me feel better about myself how did you maintain the physique and how did you make it lost i've lost a lot of weight so during force my record and venki's here he'll tell you my makeup person he's here i had i used to have 51 egg whites a day so i mean that's a different zamana and all that i've done that also you've done that yeah and i know what the farts feel like freaking mental it's horrible it's horrible for your girlfriend as well it's horrible it's all right i forget the farts it's it's it's my father's base where you can burp and taste do you get bored when people ask you so many fitness questions i'm sure you know not at all you enjoy talking i i enjoy it but i also say this on


i i enjoy it but i also say this on record um yesterday i went to the gym and i want to say this very honestly and this actually happened yesterday the guy who's training me he asked me sir who's the best trainer you've trained with and i told him there is no best trainer i've trained with i told him i have learned from every trainer i've learned a little from every train i've taken the best out of every trainer that has worked for my body and i've learnt and i said today also i'm still learning i'm not an expert so sometimes in the media even if it's projected like john abraham knows everything i do not i do not know the exact forms on certain exercises i do not know what the dietary habits of particular people should be i'm learning myself i'm probably a little more aware than a lot more people but i'm also learning i'm not educated i'm not smart in that department so and he was shocked he said sir


department so and he was shocked he said sir you're serious i said yeah i'm serious i said you're teaching me something now i'm learning from you you know you're teaching me a strip down set you've asked me to lean in front and do a pull down i'm probably learning that because it's affecting my triceps so much more than the way i was doing it earlier and i've got this tendonitis problem i said listen it's helping me so what you're teaching me today is probably the best thing i've learned over these years you say are you serious sir i said yeah i'm serious did going vegetarian affect your mind in any way like did you feel any kind of difference honestly i'm as messed up as ever okay you know okay i i think uh i think it calms you down a bit just a bit but but because i'm concurrently going through uh other issues personal issues in my head it's clouded i don't know whether it's it's like my the health of my parents


it's it's like my the health of my parents is deteriorating so watching them is kind of you know taking away so the personal issues in my life there are near and dear loved ones that i'm seeing move away or come close and it's it's affecting me so those personal issues are kind of taking away from really understanding whether being vegetarian is calming me down maybe that's the motivation obviously all that stuff could be the reason you're driving so hard what do you eat in a day if you don't mind revealing your diet okay so my macros usually i'll talk about my macros as a whole ah so so in grams of protein it's twice my body weight uh which is 170. it's about 170 i have about 160 carbs and my fats also pretty high at about 65. so i maintain those macros i keep my sodium low my uh sugar is practically zero so it's like mainly uh vegan protein shakes and mainly little eggs and little eggs sometimes sometimes but i try


eggs and little eggs sometimes sometimes but i try and stay uh you know vegetarian or practically vegan as much as possible but again i don't beat my chest about it i don't scream out in the in the air that hey because what will happen is that people start accusing you of doing a certain thing because there's so much of hypocrisy in what i'm doing yeah if that was the case then i wouldn't be sitting in a car with leather seats you know what i'm saying because my motive is also very different in life the one thing i've understood about your industry and your profession is that now this might sound like i'm being condescending but i'm really not again yeah no it's it's not it's not that like it's a freewheeling talk you can for sure yeah but the statement i want to make is i sense that there's a very natural uh and organic form of insecurity because you're scrutinized that much for how you look you know everyone's always like oh your


how you look you know everyone's always like oh your face is your body that uh how does that make you feel as a man who's like sort of you spent a long time in this industry so you ever had any phases where you felt like insecure about just yourself you know honestly ranveer and i'm being very honest first of all a i'm probably the first and i say this looking at from the outside perspective i'm probably the first male actor has been objectified so much you know with jism first my first film and then with dostner with everything yes of course there is a lot of scrutiny but again you ask my crew ask anybody around i don't have a habit i actually i see this on record i actually don't have a habit of looking in the mirror i mean maggi peru they're here you know so it's just that once where whilst something is being done after that i don't so luckily for me and i just say this luckily for me i'm not really consumed by


this luckily for me i'm not really consumed by that insecurity yes it could happen at any point of time but no i'm not i complain with my crew i say i become fat a little bad i do all that but the vanity on the face for example doesn't exist because i know for one man food for the other man poison runway a person may really like you b person may not like you at all but you learn to live with it but about about your body you know and even with age like maybe the size of your muscles reduces a lot it does for young guys that troubles them a lot if they lose even a little muscle mass yeah so generally in the fitness industry all over the world there is that little element of insecurity where every guy is comparing himself to the bigger guy absolutely absolutely how have you have you made peace with all that no i'm fighting every day so when i go to the gym yesterday i was complaining that i'm not


gym yesterday i was complaining that i'm not good enough i'm not good enough i'm not good enough i need to fight and my trainer said you're so driven you're so driven i said boss if i wasn't driven i wouldn't do extraordinary things and if i wouldn't do extraordinary things i wouldn't get extraordinary results so you have to be driven to a point where possessed and this is my bread and butter on me i could talk about the five good films that i've done but johnny graham's known for his body you know you can't take away from that so for me i drive myself every day to go to the gym to train to train harder am i do i okay now let me put it this way do i look at comments in the comment section and say oh my god they said your body looks so bad in this one no i don't i don't and i'll tell you one more piece of trivia which i have shared probably one person i don't


which i have shared probably one person i don't even know i don't have any social media on my phone i don't have whatsapp i've consciously decided when facebook happened i don't know how to log into facebook it's shocking isn't it but i've made a conscious decision i don't have imessage i'm just on sms so if you ask me about comments about things so my manager she she handles my social media and if you see my social media feed i'm only following animal organizations or i'm posting stuff on films honestly the way you use social media is fantastic fantastic i'm not capable i don't have the skill sets to use social media the way you do does social media help in my case it does because uh i'm so much into animal cruelty that it helps me a lot to make people aware but can i use social media for my own self and say hey listen this is a donut and now i'm going to the potty you know i can't do that i can't share so


know i can't do that i can't share so much of my my life and i saw and you did it in a very beautiful way when you were introducing your house for example you said you know i'm so happy with this house and i want to share this with you guys it came from your heart and you did it beautifully thank you sir i can't do that because i'm intrinsically a very introverted shy person i'm very socially you know i'm okay i can talk to everybody have a good time but i'm very shy i keep things inside me so for someone like me it's a bit unnatural to go out there and do it so i don't know and i could be i could do otherwise but i think i may go off social media in in probably a week a couple of weeks a month yeah no i i hear you yeah plus i mean your world as actors is it's just too much stimulation it's too many things coming at you that's why i honestly look at it yeah


you that's why i honestly look at it yeah yeah but again like i i don't do in rome as the romans do so i don't do as the other actors do because i don't hang out too much with anybody except with my motorcycles what do you do to chill motorcycles i call up motorcycle dealers they realize it's my call they disconnect the call also nowadays actually and i'm like i'm i get so hurt and it's not the ego johnny but i'm in a phone call not like that same why did you disconnect my call like for a suzuki hayabusa i called up and they disconnected my call and um now i want that bike more now because it's my first bike you know so i wanted more so i do these things for pastime i'll go and i'll look at some property somewhere or i'll take out my motorcycles i'll clean them for me therapeutic to clean my motorcycles i really enjoy the sound of my motorcycles till my neighbor complains that's making too


motorcycles till my neighbor complains that's making too much sound and i'll say okay i disagree with you about one thing you mentioned over the course of the last two questions you said that you're known for body which i agree your brand is known for your body but uh i feel people are changing their perception towards you and getting known for like being an educated mind in this world the whole mba aspect and you know the fact that you got into product production i'll tell you why i say that before every conversation um okay first of all like so these are not interviews like these are just questions this is me getting to know you over the course of a conversation and to do that well i have to ask a lot of people what they think about you and almost everybody collectively said that there are only two dark horses in bollywood shayat kapoor and john abraham and they have their own trajectories you know independent of the back and that's what the perception is changing into oh wow and i'm just


perception is changing into oh wow and i'm just i'm i mean i mean see for me i'm i'm talking to like a childhood idol of mine uh i started lifting weights somewhere because i was really inspired seeing force etc yeah um so i'm almost embarrassed to tell you this but i feel like you're you're really harsh on yourself and uh i mean i'm the one to tell you this but i think you should you've already you've created that legacy that legacy is done so you think i need to take a chill pill for a bit i mean i'm thinking of a very polite way to say that but yeah because i i do feel an energy exchange in each of these conversations i probably need to hear that also run me because i'm so hard and literally i feel it sometimes i'm so hard on myself that i don't give myself even this much of space to say okay i've done it do you do you cry at all uh yeah i do i do all right when you're


uh yeah i do i do all right when you're alone yeah actually strange as it may sound and really fill me up really feel me growing up the only way i thought it was cool to cry was when i used to cry in the rain it sounds very charlie chaplin-ish but that was never the intent but that's how i used to do it so no one could see then later on i in the middle i just completely stopped crying i said men don't cry then with one of my ex-girlfriends a long time ago and this is ages ago i saw titanic i couldn't control and she was sitting next to me and i you know i just had to get brave you know but yeah i i do cry to answer a question i do cry but i cry for the voiceless you know and very openly like i just break down i can't control uh for animals for people suffering but what about your own self i feel sorry for myself because i'm so messed up in the head sometimes i


i'm so messed up in the head sometimes i feel sorry for myself but there's nothing really to i mean i'm i've been the creator of my own problems you know maybe you're using them as motivation i do i do you're a very smart 28 year old guy honest it's the art of podcasting has gifted me all these students you're very intuitive i like the way you connect and the way you're talking to me it's very interesting i i don't do this on the podcast but because at the end of it i want to give you a hug man like you know you don't know you don't know what you've done for me as a kid and the last time i felt uh like this like even i'm getting emotional talking to you honestly man um i had a harness wasn't i go on the show and that's what yeah and that was a huge deal for me i got very emotional and this is the second time i'm feeling that because all of us start lifting weights


feeling that because all of us start lifting weights from a place of pain and insecurity you see someone and you say that i wish i was like him yeah and uh you were definitely one of those people arnold you um you don't know john cena yeah yeah yeah you guys have had just a very like the teenage boy in me is like just enjoying this moment a lot and maybe to end this particular conversation i just want to say that um do don't don't be harsh on yourself because um no no i look at you even in that whole now i'm in media so there's more inspiration for me to take from you and uh to see you not being at your peak happiness that you're capable of being it does hurt me somewhere it's so sweet but um man i i just i wish you the best and this is this is the best conversation ranveer i tell you very honestly this is the best conversation i've had in a long time and you know you're a good you're


long time and you know you're a good you're a good kid and uh my only advice to you if i may throw it out of the window no no please i'm here for that yeah yeah i i think you're so intelligent for your age and you're so evolved um it's also the exposure that we all have with social media just keep your you know you have the power to rule and to do a lot just keep your head on your shoulders your feet on the ground and every time you think you're taking off a bit just look down and just plant your feet back in again and you can conquer anything just remember that i i really appreciate it i appreciate just like having met you and this podcast is just a bonus oh yeah thanks yeah thank you for everything thanks i enjoyed this yeah the advantages of you know either being an actor so happy to see you there's a there's a lot of love uh directed towards you that probably you're not aware about because you're so into


probably you're not aware about because you're so into your hustle but trust me every everyone you know especially my guys i can speak for them because they're my team uh we we found in the morning that we're gonna speak to you and it was just like let's go but three of them sleep at uh they stay with you know yeah they have room yeah it's these three you're the content creator sachin and what's your name two of them are sitting on the chair facing the other way when you introduce them and who's the other guy sitting ah yeah so just i mean on behalf of all brown boys thank you john uh you've done a lot man you've done a lot from wish you all the best with your podcast and your biceps also all the very best thank you sir kill it yes so that was the episode for today it was emotional it was real it was genuine it was from my heart honestly i'm still that same overweight kid on the inside and this conversation


that same overweight kid on the inside and this conversation was just two fitness enthusiasts talking to each other but the key here was that one of those fitness enthusiasts grew up taking inspiration from the other one this was a very important episode for me from an emotional standpoint i genuinely got extremely emotional towards the end now as a podcaster there are certain things that you only understand when you're actually conducting the podcast what i can tell you is that john was extremely humble extremely welcoming extremely emotional but i sincerely hope that this podcast is sort of a turning point in his image he's associated with fitness and being a bodybuilder but people need to know about the brain inside this guy's skull that's the key takeaway for me he's extremely insightful he's extremely analytical that mba that he did in his life has paid off and i genuinely feel that this is just the beginning of sort of a second innings for brand john abraham hope to have him


innings for brand john abraham hope to have him on the podcast soon hope that you all follow us on spotify every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world lots of beautiful drs episodes coming your way thank you to the listeners and thank you to john abraham [Music] you


all right this was a fun three person conversation centered around how to make big money in life economics and aspects of future tech lots of topics broken down by two of the smartest people i know yashda raja of jump form i use json of pesto tech you're not gonna get access to these kind of conversations anywhere else that's the vibe of trs that's why we work this hard on this podcast to bring you these kind of beautiful memorable conversations that are also fun remember for more episodes follow trs on spotify where is spotify exclusive which means that every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world this is one of the most insightful conversations brought to you by the runway show enjoy yourself [Music] i think it has started and i think sanchez is just directing well so why don't you complete what you were saying about pawn mr thunder and then we'll move into talking about advanced finance topics what i was saying was that in any any


topics what i was saying was that in any any new technology it depends on who adopts it so when like blu-ray came out there was a competitor called hd dvd right and the decision was the gaming industry and the power industry decided because they are the most volume users of this product so it plays a role that's random anecdote i want to know more i have a question who are you guys [Laughter] i have no idea setting some context here for the listeners uh mr jaiswal runs one of india's biggest startup success stories in pesto tech covered it a lot on this channel on the hindi channel um mr yasta raja and me are killing it in the content game and uh just talia has been a friend in my life for i don't even know how long quickly what was your first memory of me uh curly hair you had chickenpox came late to school ran and screaming hi everyone my my first memory of you is that's a smart guy i'm gonna keep him


that's a smart guy i'm gonna keep him near me and i'm gonna learn about money from this guy and it and it happened he's my smart sindhi friend he's already done a basics of finance episode on this channel which did pretty when it came out and then over the course of the lockdown something happened to india where people started researching on finance and i called him one day i was like yo have you seen that video which is stuck at eight thousand views it's gone to like two and a half lakh right now like in a week like what the happened and uh that that was a case of cover just fast forwarding behaviors now the cause of code in the content would have seen a lot of creators sprout up and teach basics about finance keep peso go ssrl this is what you should think about money how you think about money i specifically want to have this conversation for a very long time you're from the world of startups you're from the world i want


world of startups you're from the world i want your core finance but you know how to multiply money and i love having this advanced finance conversation where would you brothers like to start why you're smiling at me i'm a little creeped out but every brothers like to start you're originally excited to talk about economics and finance but yeah we're just excited to hear you for it money money talks money dogs how do you multiply how do you become how do you come rich in the 20 20s and 2030s according to you beat inflation constantly okay own more equity than cash one more one more rapid fire children rapid fire uh invest in some high growth products with a little bit of your portfolio hmm uh don't keep money in your savings accounts well india has so much money in savings account it's act you're actually getting poorer right like or even fixed deposits for the love oh yeah before you start taking any of this gyan invest in yourself oh nice have a core skill set absolutely


yourself oh nice have a core skill set absolutely or like furthering that try to make some passive income for yourself make your life easier okay okay cool and now i also want to learn about econ through the course of this podcast and what i feel is when you study economics from a global perspective there are some sort of learnings you can apply to your own financial life you've studied econ so you have some deep understanding of this i would love to know what you have to say mr tallu no it's it's just uh i don't know when we talk about money right it's like uh we fixate on this money is such an important part of everyone's lives the economy what is money is what you usually start off with in economics there's this concept called fiat currencies right so why i take a 10 rupee note why is it worth 10 rupees because someone considers it worth 10 rupees we commonly hold the belief that it's worth 10 rupees but like if you start to look


worth 10 rupees but like if you start to look at what that is based on right like then you come into this the whole economics category of things like money used to be tied to gold and over time after the second world war now they didn't tie it to gold it stopped being tied to gold because the system became so big that it wasn't sustainable for example if i gave you one dollar it was a way of saying actually i'm giving you so many grams of gold yeah which are kept in the american federal backyard back in the day it was tied to that value of gold yes and there would actually be physical gold that was stored in the american federal reserve uh but you're saying post world war two they stopped tying the value of money to that then what did they tie the money or the u.s dollar then now we're in the dollar regime of things and earlier the us dollar used to be tied to gold but then eventually after the 70s there was this


but then eventually after the 70s there was this amazing thing called stagflation stagnant growth plus high inflation after which the us decided gold is not sustainable and now the dollar is not really back to anything yeah like so they just said okay now dollar is the new gold exactly if the world runs on the confidence that the us dollar is viable and is worth something imagine how crazy it is and what if i tell you that banks can print six times more money than than i think they have in the reserves any time so they can multiply the u.s economy whenever they want that is a lot of power right and they got exposed in the 2008 crash right and that is where this concept of bitcoin was born which was like you know to distribute the power in in people's hands we will come back to bitcoin yeah i want to right now know from you i just mentioned the 2008 crash yeah 2008 crash was basically uh over time like capital controls were reduced banks got uh more


time like capital controls were reduced banks got uh more adventurous what does that mean like like what happens is an investment bank right you have a responsibility to your investors to not make two risky investments also right like you need to provide value well investment bank matlab an organization where you i am your client you are the investment bank i'll give you my money you will say that i will invest it for you and maybe it's not even just individuals like buddy pension funds how do pension funds pay out pension they need to beat inflation they also need to earn money right they give their money to an investment investment bank invest gives them a return so these guys basically started investing in riskier products which was basically products based on mortgages home loans and they kind of played their hand because the logic in america used to be that mortgages are infallible everyone always pays their mortgage so like you know who's not going to pay their mortgage this product is like you know backed and


mortgage this product is like you know backed and secure so what they started doing is they made products by collecting a lot of like lacks of people car home loans collateralizing it into a product and being like oh this is a financial product now okay you can invest in this they'll pay them they'll obviously pay the money when you say collecting lack of people's home loans basically loans pay interest you gain profits in that product any bank that's giving a loan is earning money off the interest right that you're paying them so they if i take 100 000 people car uh loans together and i club it together and i'd be like this is the total package this is the total earning okay across all of these average interest paid is eight percent seven percent that is now a product so that's what these banks started trading on and eventually what happened was in this kind of you know bull run or rush this will keep getting better and growing they started running out of good home loans to


they started running out of good home loans to make products out of and eventually they started using not so good home loans good home loans means uh basically people who are capable of paying the loan and more yes or or people that are stable enough to that you are assured by the rest of their finances either through some collateral or how much they earn that they will be able to pay this back there were basically credit agencies as well right yeah so that's tell us more about that like how um so it's credit agencies is like a whole problem but like basically what happens is that they became more liberal with who they gave money to and how much money they gave that's the shortest possible version of it just like someone's ready to give you a mortgage for that yeah okay and that's what happened in this like there's this movie called the big short they're like you know these guys are just like flabbergasted going to people and being like oh you want four houses


to people and being like oh you want four houses how do you afford this and they said lone it's like basically in a stack of cash if you mix like you know a couple of duplicate ones yeah people won't notice that that's exactly what was happening like you know in in in a set of good loans they were made you know mixing riskier loans and then they would get distributed the logic was key okay suppose now um there's a five percent chance that you will not be able to pay your mortgage right but if i take 100 people like this together yeah with a five percent chance each okay then that number reduces now because what is the chance 100 people will not be able to pay so based on that logic they made these products but what happened is over time they started putting not so good loans inside these boxes as well to be able to go to the customers and say see we're going in such safe yeah to be able to trade on this yeah being like


to be able to trade on this yeah being like you know this is a secure product it's a basis pay will trade and the fault here was of whom the fault was pretty much regulations were like or banks banks like the big banks because eventually they got bailed out which was the whole thing that earlier money was based on the strength of the us dollar but what they do is how much us dollar can be put into the market also now is controlled yeah right like there's a set amount like money today is like debt okay like a central bank creates debt to give to banks who give it out to do business and you see you know that many schools based on that a whole system of this debt-based finance is created banks overplayed their hand like took bets that they should not have and they ended up at a position where they couldn't like pay and the government the u.s government and like a landmark decision at the time what they decided to do to fix this was to print more money and


do to fix this was to print more money and bail out the banks yeah and they still hold the power they still hold the power now in covert we've seen like a large percentage of the total currency globally in circulation is actually been printed recently one second i want to talk about what's happening now also i want to dial back a little bit uh what did it mean for the average investor like what i mean for people like us you know the 2008 crash because we were 14 12 at the time you know what was happening in the adulthood so imagine like a game of passing the parcel okay and at some point the parcel explodes and then one person is left with this broken parcel now the whole chain breaks then right now if these big banks are unable to pay back their debts that it it cascades across the whole system so you had like you know liquidity issues banks being able to pay back up like you know banks not having the confidence to lend anymore okay and


not having the confidence to lend anymore okay and for the economy to grow because already you had this one kind of like bus scenario right so that's what happened that's why there was a slump because the all the liquidity got taken out of the system because like one person doesn't pay in the chain the whole chain dries up it's like a food chain yeah you remove like a huge like you know amount of value from this system the system won't work the same way right wow and uh so basically the stock markets crashed because of this because again because bank performance like bear or bear stones which was one of the biggest banks in the world at that time went bankrupt right so like it's it's things like this the confidence in the banking system also went where people weren't sure what what are these banks investing in we thought it was secure right if they have to be bailed out by the government for making risky bets that remove the confidence in the system also right for a lot of people


in the system also right for a lot of people imagine you not feeling safe that my money in my account right now is not safe yeah right imagine that so i think that's the first scenario right they call it a bank run where you don't have confidence that the bank will be able to you know like keep retain the value of your money so everyone tries to go and get their money out of the bank but what happens then like you know how will the bank do business what's the ratio like the total like economy size and versus like the amount of cash in the bank what's the ratio like do we have because of course like if everybody takes money out of out it's called an economics it's called the multiplier effect yeah okay so it's like a small amount of uh debt that's created from the central bank it kind of like you know that's the multiplier right because you're taking this debt and you're doing business with it yes so from what i understand uh the rbi has ratios


from what i understand uh the rbi has ratios for uh it's called the um got it but whatever that ratio is but basically like the debt is issued yeah repo and reverse repo rates yeah so whatever amount of money let's say the banks have the money which they actually have they can lend five six times more money in the market so if everybody just starts taking their money back you know banks don't have money anymore the entire system is based on debt then the whole it's like the system is by itself inflationary only right exactly because there's a multiplier because it's based on this debt that you're paying again to create more business yes so a lot of institutions a lot of banks a lot of people lost money in the 2008 long long story short yes but uh what are the long-term implications of it was it the birth of d5 was it the birth of cryptocurrencies i mean cryptocurrencies is the start of d5 right like and that's the whole thing when the when your


like and that's the whole thing when the when your system is based on debt and it's not based on a tangible thing then you start to think okay if the as existing system also isn't based on tangible stuff then why am i beholden to it yeah like i'll just make a digital currency that's not tied to anybody basically people realized that money which is there in your bank account is just a number against your name right it's not tied to anything right which means it's just thin air right and the power is in the hands of very limited number of people which is which are the banks right so bitcoin was created with like you know by an anonymous person satoshi nakamoto and um what that is is basically distributing this power right like when you talk about bitcoin you know and the technology behind it which is blockchain a lot of things come up right how it works so on and so forth but the core fundamental the reason is or why it happened is to distribute the power


or why it happened is to distribute the power which is there in hands of these banks uh to the rest of the people right uh too many questions about bitcoin we've covered the basics on our fantastic crypto podcast with sumit gupta of coin dcx ayush i gotta ask you when it comes to bitcoin because you're sitting in silicon valley i'm sure you have uh perspective you have a different kind of perspective as compared to the rest of the world all the listeners how did bitcoin get its first 10 to 100 users because there had to be some sort of like what's your gut feeling because i mean see there could have been other cryptocurrencies yes why is that has this cryptocurrency taken off yeah see ethereum it's taken up because of the underlying tech yeah that you can build further tech products using the ethereum network am i right in section yeah what about bitcoin how did it get its first 10 dollars yeah so in the beginning you definitely need early adopters it had early adopters who


definitely need early adopters it had early adopters who understood why this matters right they saw the vision they believed in it is it first movers advantage yeah i mean it's not a company it's just something which was out there lying around and people were like hey this this sounds interesting bitcoin was used on multiple gaming platforms as you know a way uh to use the currency and and people loved it because you know it would it would cost less and have you bought something mr jason no i i do want to sound very smart i thought you're one of those early tech guys who were like yeah i'll take some bitcoin and then you're suddenly like exploding back in the day in 2013 i remember it was like seven dollars eight dollars when people were picking up picking it up for the heck of it in college yeah i think people need to understand the fundamental difference between bitcoin and ethereum and this is this is where i kind of lose some of my cryptocurrency arguments with friends who are


lose some of my cryptocurrency arguments with friends who are not believers in crypto and there's a lot of them yeah especially older guys and by old i mean four five years older than us for some reason yeah uh they say that okay ethereum i get that there is an underlying technology yeah uh so for those of you who don't have context basically imagine that older softwares including the ones you use in your phone were created using raw material a which is the older sort of technology yeah and the newer apps which are going to be built which are called built on web 3 protocols or built on the blockchain yeah will be built using a new sort of raw material yeah now one of those highly effective raw materials is the ethereum network yes and for someone to create a software using that highly effective raw material which is the ethereum network they need to buy ethereum tokens to be able to code on that uh on those protocols yeah uh that is the value of ethereum as people figure out more ideas oh i can build this using


figure out more ideas oh i can build this using ethereum networks and that using ethereum ethereum's value keeps going up yep uh now this has a very solid use case which is why people say oh i believe more in ethereum than i believe in bitcoin yeah what is the underlying tech behind bitcoin is that so lose the argument yeah i just simplify it in a very very simple way right bitcoin was just distributing power to people right um ethereum is programmable money which means unlimited potential you can play with it you can build stuff on top of it right and a couple of things which you know sort of emerged in the last few years one is defy which is more into lending that how can you you know sort of uh bring the lending uh industry using d fire you know and then there is nfts uh which is you know sort of uh non-fungible tokens and and stuff like that so i think and these are just two applications so ethereum is more of like in uh you know sort of um


more of like in uh you know sort of um uh programmable money which you can play around with and the potential is unlimited that's why people are more excited about the ethereum right the second thing is when there are more applications built on top of ethereum it blockchain is basically like you know sort of look at it as backend right if you build something on top of it you need to interact with it when you interact with it you need to pay you know just like you pay servers today right you pay to like aws or some centralized uh place but if you are building on top of ethereum you need to pay the network right and that's like a very big oil reserve and you're paying the country in which the oil reserve exists even even if you make an nfd you pay a gas fee exactly so gas fee is basically doing that work right somebody has got to be paid to do anything right so i think that's how you are interacting with the network right now why ethereum's value goes up


the network right now why ethereum's value goes up because of two reasons one is that the applications are increasing more and more people are lending more and more people are borrowing nfts are taking off right all of those stuff is happening right so because of that the demand is increased and if you have anything which is limited uh you know the price will shoot up the second thing which is happening you know ethereum is about to go through an upgrade um and in that upgrade ethereum is already by the way uh you know deflate deflationary you know sort of which means that the amount of supply which is there in the system is actually decreasing so you have increase in demand plus decrease in supply of ethereum you know it or eth which is like the token which is used right so because of both these reasons the price of each each is increasing right to what it effectively means for retail investors is that this isn't financial advice this is the advice i got from cryptocurrency experts and ayush is


i got from cryptocurrency experts and ayush is indirectly saying that that money is expected to increase uh if you invest your money in ethereum token oh yeah so i i wouldn't like again it's not a financial advice it's not not finance but i'm saying that anything when it's adoption is increased you know and supply is decreased the value has to go up right and that's like we are not so hey no this isn't this isn't recommendations exactly let me make that clear uh but the crypto experts did recommend that these are the two tokens that you invest and i get why you invest in ethereum tokens eats what is the logic behind investing in bitcoin is it that there's already a community built out which believes that much in it companies governments are accepting bitcoin which is validating its value yeah so governments are not so i mean like it's two different things you know so el salvador decided to use bitcoin as their reserves like earlier we used to use gold as


reserves like earlier we used to use gold as reserves they decided that bitcoin is the future the government of miami they are buying bitcoin and they are you know even rewarding their citizens they are trying to gamify sort of you know life yeah and and basically incentivize good behavior right and stuff like that so i think um there are some governments playing around with it but it's just very lesser number so when you go to a deeper psychological level yeah what even makes human beings value gold people just decided that this is rare exactly it's shiny it's yellow yes and it's worth some money yes it's a common shared supply and demand right if there are sneakers right nike launches sneakers tomorrow and says that hey come buy these sneakers i'm making these right the price of those sneakers might not be too high but if nike says these are sneakers i'll only make a thousand of these they're exclusive they're limited in in supply then the demand for those sneakers


in in supply then the demand for those sneakers will increase because people would want it to show off or for whatever reason right artificial scarcity artificial scarcity yeah correct so again i feel like uh when it comes to money or anything valuable diamonds gold platinum whatever you name it it's a common shared belief between a bunch of human beings as for the case with diamonds and gold it's the world's population with bitcoin it's a section of the world's population that said that that is our new gold how does it look i'm not so sure see the it's like barter system could only take human beings so far so we developed a intermediary to exchange stuff with each other right and then since then it's the same thing like earlier that intermediary was a physical product absolutely like then it was paper which we could print that was tied to a physical product then it was oh let's just base it on the strongest currency in the world that will never fail and now it's like since we've


will never fail and now it's like since we've gone this far since it we now accept that it's a shared belief that like you know makes money work why not make a electronic and efficient kind of money that we can program we can put laws into and that's the whole logic there's this beautiful book called the wealth of nations oh yeah of course talks about history like you know sort of mankind how did this whole thing come up there were kings they would like say silver is the new currency then they would put their pictures on it then that king dies somebody killed him and from tomorrow you know the other picture is cigarette we went through all of those things and i think this is just an evolutionary phase and i've i forgot to mention that and i want to give credit to for this definition i think i think it's but i might be quoting him wrong but um i think he said ethereum is um the new supercomputer and eath is the money which will go on that right so


is the money which will go on that right so that's that's another way to think about it um you know yeah so again coming back to those older bros those guys who are against crypto uh specifically when it comes to bitcoin they say that i don't have scientific proof that this is actually valuable and they think i don't have numbers behind it because who's controlling the rates that go up and down it can be controlled by anyone and somewhere the argument would have been valid in 2013 but the situation now is that there's that many people who are like backing it yeah and also it's like absolute versus relative worth right you have any currency today the indian indian rupee for example is worth relative to something yeah absolutely it's always worth like everything is back to a dollar it's an exchange rate it's a whatever so like which is why i i kind of think that a lot of people will now kind of evolutionarily have to just accept crypto you know and as we begin to accept that things


you know and as we begin to accept that things that exist in digital systems are real like you know and that are actually usable in our life it starts to extend to different things right and by the way i'm like a big uh sort of i i definitely love the technology and i believe in it but just saying that when adoption happens then value creation happens right right so adoption is the key here not you know sort of not speculation nothing else adoption of the technology right second point that why bitcoin has any value right there's like a fun news um which came up i guess a few days ago um which mentions a lady sold 37 000 worth of fart in uk she ended up in a hospital um because she was trying to make too much money but she started doing this online and this is like you know what is this but news like this like people are buying nfts right and who gave nft is any value yeah it's you know it's the market when the market comes together to


it's the market when the market comes together to decide that nft has x value it has x value same as with the stock market who decides that you know sort of a company is worth x same as with abstract art absolutely exactly so it's really the market that decides it's it's all of us agree on that certain things matter certain things have value you can't do certain things you can't do certain things and then it all stems from there moving on to lighter topics because this podcast got heavy so of course we gotta bring the back that bak cho's green but because the theme is uh paisa yeah uh questions straight up for you mr theresa you're the pesa expert in the house honestly here okay are you feeling the pressure a little bit yeah uh the pesa expert i have a direct question i think the first podcast we did was about the basics of how you should look at money uh the second one we did was about real estate and specific uh keeping both those two things


real estate and specific uh keeping both those two things in mind what's happened over the course of the last two years specific to indians in terms of what should we keep in mind now when it comes to money uh indian kids are getting deeply educated about stock market in general about even private equity about real estate investments because of podcasts like us so that was not me doing some mental masturbation that was not me sucking on my own uh mr thor raja please you can suck on yours [Laughter] so okay let's get back to it um i don't know these guys go on i think it's been a year of financial inclusion everyone has woken up in india there have been more than a crore accounts opened because now everyone had time everyone realized this thing was drilled into everyone's heads that like you can't just let it sit idle like you know you got to do something man like inflation's taking your money away what are you doing so now it's our time of financial inclusion it's


so now it's our time of financial inclusion it's a time of increased crazy increased participation in markets so people are getting into it which is good but also that means that there's like you know a bull run in the market because so many people are entering and in these times you have to be careful about like what you put money in because now all these people have come in tomorrow the market starts dropping if these people leave what can make them leave if they get bored of that habit of being no it's see so much of markets is mass psychology and confidence in what you're investing in right mentality not heard mentality it's more like uh if i believe that the country is doing well companies are growing the situation globally is stable right like okay recently uh based on geopolitical stuff so many times we see markets crash if one market crashes in another country it affects confidence levels somewhere else so it like you have to understand that okay you have come in at a time where


that okay you have come in at a time where there is mass participation but a lot of these things are reacting to the world also like it's not just driven by the fundamentals of company a or whatever technical analysis you've done like it's a connected bigger ecosystem so when there is too much demand you tend to over value something yeah so i feel it's way too many narratives that come together and therefore affect the stock price or the market in general yeah see the real world is a mess like there's no getting away from that sometimes because there's just too many variables you can't uh account for all of them so uh where are we now man i think we're in a place where people are now we've reached the part of inclusion everyone's joined in this ecosystem and now we're trying to see where this ecosystem can go hence defy hence all these new ways of you know cryptocurrencies blockchain new way of organizing the back end of all of these systems let's talk d5


end of all of these systems let's talk d5 uh mr jaiswal what is d5 uh in very simple language uh you know you make money by lending money to someone you get paid interest on it defy is just that you're removing the middlemen getting the borrower and lender together and helping that transaction happen yeah d5d fan defy shopko expand key oh d5 is decentralized finance just make koi beach you know there are borrowers and lenders coming and they're basically doing the transaction [Music] from your eyes of being an econ student how does this look this looks insane amazing because you're making the system transparent right yeah so something like microfinance is a great example of what he was talking about right like if micro finance small loans given out to people if it's organized automated through a blockchain based system i can give money on loan to someone else and the system will ensure that it's going to the right place coming back on time and all of that or like there's tokenization for


and all of that or like there's tokenization for real estate nowadays yeah smart contracts like i don't want to sit and deal with all these papers the registry of properties in blockchain right the so the the record gets updated because of that what does this mean for say a student in us finally who's figuring out finances in life what does that person need to know about d5 uh and what what do they need to study like right now so d5 is basically like removing the middlemen right which are more often than not banks right and i think as a person who is just graduating i would want to study the newer technologies which are coming in because they might be the future in college you will learn about what are the infrastructures available today but what's coming in tomorrow is going to be very very critical i'll give you an example right a very good friend of mine rafael is one of the smartest guys i know um he's working on this company called trufy right and what kufa is trying