have a residual capacity of what six liters six liters so keep four liters of air in your lungs exhale it slowly inhale fast you'll keep floating in water with your hands tied and legs tight you'll still float okay so that's technique you learn but then in layman's term when somebody goes into the water he or she they drunk you can't keep yourself above the water you go down then you cannot breathe then you drink water it's called wet drowning so the water enters your lungs and then there's no coming up nobody's there to pick you up give you a cpr you know push and flush the water out of your body and then you die okay um continue the thing you were talking about diving diving in the brahmaputra so uh so it was a basically rescue diving but then obviously it's not rescue because people who had to go they had gone and the bodies were found 40-50 kilometers downstream but then we had to die for three days


downstream but then we had to die for three days morning till evening and the flow would be around 16 17 knots and the permissible limit was what three four knots but then you cannot say no i'm not going to die because there are people there there are there is media there there are relatives of those people who lost their lives so you have to balance it out find a place where the knot where the speed is around seven eight knots which is again double the permissible limit but you have to so it's pitch dark the moment you leave the surface in reverse especially brahmaputra so you you go of it feet below the water surface and it's dark you cannot see anything you can only feel the short rope that has gone down go find the jack straight that you you have laid you as in the supervisor supervises the die there's no danger of wild animals like crocodiles or if it's crocodile infested you will have prior uh warnings but then you can never rule out the


uh warnings but then you can never rule out the chance crocodile you'll never have not have crocodiles it might be there but then again nobody wants to come and you know haunt a human being i would assume you are in its home it's like entering a lion's den but in water i agree see preferably it will not like to but if it's hungry if it sees you alone it might it might did you talk a little bit more about diving in the river so so you find the jack stay you know you keep moving your hand to try and find something some wreckage some metal piece some piece of the bike and against the hope open some body which is very very difficult because the flow is so so much nothing stays there and there's so much of mud being deposited as the water is coming even if there is a body you will not find the body in ours you'll have a layer of full layer of mud you know sediments but then you do that come up take some rest


but then you do that come up take some rest again do that come up you know the risks but then if you train properly that's what i believe if you know the risks versus rewards ratio i believe you've got good chances to survive in all those conditions and not make a mistake when you lose your life what do you eat when you're out on operations operations i would prefer satu wow okay because it's protein you know all kind of different and carbohydrates too because you got cereals too little bit of salt sugar water that's gram flour right satu i mean mixture mixture okay you have grams you got different cereals also but the main constitution is kind of like a local indian protein shake in some ways yes and the best part is it's easy to digest there's no problem because you're walking anyways you don't feel hungry for some time and it does not give out smell on your operations have you seen daily yes wild animals yes what have you seen i've seen bears


animals yes what have you seen i've seen bears i've seen wolves okay just to put this into context when we bring conservationists and live wildlife experts on the show they talk about how dangerous the indian black bear is it's probably more dangerous than a tiger or a dole or any other animal because it i believe it's got a very weak sense of eyesight so when it doesn't understand something it can smell you and to investigate it will come and attack you that's just its way of investigation now i'll let you explain what you've seen so i've seen elephant okay so there's a small little story i'll like to narrate so this is in assam and i did my share of duty the officer generally has the first duty which is the onset of the night or the darkness and then he'll have his duty in the morning early morning because it is very very difficult to stay awake so we knowingly take take that thing to tell people that if i can do


that thing to tell people that if i can do that you bloody will be serious so i had finished off with my duty in the first first lot six to eight and i had gone off to sleep there was this buddy he's still serving i'll not name him a manipuri guy so he wakes me up around one o'clock in the morning he says and when we sleep we don't sleep like you know you're sleeping you're like you're just sleeping ready you know in in ready hala so i caught up i was not wearing nvgs that time night vision goggles okay so it was a monoclonal site you've got to explain this monocle is like single eye okay so there are nvgs which have which cover both your eyes you have better field of view but the downside is once you take them off you're blind for the next 20 minutes wow you can't see anything okay because the glare and the brightness is such when you're wearing them so the advantage of monocular is you're looking


them so the advantage of monocular is you're looking at whatever you want to see though your field of view is not great but once you take them off you still can see with one eye so you're not entirely blind yeah and again i want to mention one special versus context you guys are trained to kind of have better night vision uh you're like able to see things yes with with time it's not only special forces i believe anybody who can invest time in these kind of activities you will get to acquire these skills feel free not to answer this have you ever had to hunt while out on an operation once it was not not in operation we were on a post northeast you have so much of range a good stretch of around 400 400 meters road went down hm so there's no road connectivity you mean it fell off like the landslide yes yes okay there's a slide and everything went down with this light so now the roads cannot come to you either ways the roads are in an atrocious state so


ways the roads are in an atrocious state so we had this tinned mutton rogan josh which which tastes horrible what does it taste like neither like mutton nor like rogan i mean i don't know and all that we had was uh achar in manipur they have good non-vegetarians but then how much can you stock so for good one one and a half months we were eating chili you know chili and chaat and khichdi and then we took i mean let's go and hunt something so we sat for two days we got uh around 200 kgs that deer and then you hunt it gut it because you cannot carry a whole deer no you will have to put the legs apart i all trained in gutting and like skinning you know it's on the job training like while you're there you just figure it so every time the chickens and here they come in so you sit and cut so it's second nature to us it's all easy only thing you should know which part should not burst you


thing you should know which part should not burst you know it'll spoil the meat i'm assuming like bladder okay blood intestine and my northeast boys they would leave it they would leave nothing not even the intestines they eat the offals so they know how to prepare vinegar and salt and then put in haldi and put stuffed besan into that gram how do you have those masalas like those are there with your masalas don't go bad no so once you stock it you stock it okay so that's okay masalas are not a problem but the fresh meat and then you eat the fresh meat and then you smoke the rest and then you keep eating for six to eight months or you pickle them you smoke the rest doesn't you light a fire on which you are cooking you put a fishing net at a height of around seven feet put the meat so the smoke dries the meat so there's no moisture so it's hard brownish blackish kind of you know meat like sausage


blackish kind of you know meat like sausage sort of sausage is fermented and smoked this is only smoked okay but yes what does it taste like kebab the smoked hot meat will taste nothing you cannot even chew it so when you want to eat it you'll have to put it in water wow hydrate it then add masalas and all and there the hunters they carry that smoked meat and and this much of rice so whenever they the hunters sit they'll light a fire put the rice put little salt put the smoked meat eat it and i'm sure you've seen uh joe rogan podcast with american special forces yes a few yes are they very similar in terms of mindset to indian yes the mindset across the world you see you you if you i'll give you an example it's a it's a cloth you know and the special forces community belong to is akin to that cloth you might have different sizes you might have different measurements but the mindset is like the cloth it is


but the mindset is like the cloth it is almost the same never giving up attitude being good being ruthless when the time demands being fearless when the situation demands being a good team guy team member so these attributes are same across the world speaking about being ruthless have you [Applause] i'm sure you've come up close with terrorists at some point in your tenure have you had a conversation i did have conversations but when you strike a conversation he's no more a terrorist than most of them he is fighting because he believes in in an ideology why am i fighting because i believe in an ideology of territorial integrity of peace that has been embedded in my head cuts in my training upbringing or my belief system in a democracy or constitution so he is not wrong when he is fighting what he believes in i am not wrong when i am fighting what i believe in so when you strike a conversation it is like a human to a human it is very very different


a human to a human it is very very different from what you believe it to be but then yes i have served all my life in northeast i can't comment about the jihadists or the fundamentalists in the north in srinagar that conversation could be very different they might have a different perspective of why they are fighting because of religion or because of i don't know what but here the perspective is very different it was not religion it was something to do with their identity something to do the with not acknowledging them in a manner where where they feel important or they feel like equals or some inter tribal you know rivalry going on so when you talk to a guy who has such problems is it is it is very different from a guy who's fighting because of jihad or religion or fundamentalism i mean these northeast people um did you did you find a good reason in any of the arguments of why they were fighting uh if i get into his shoes many a time i would


i get into his shoes many a time i would i wouldn't say to him say to him in open but many times i would find reason but the way he was trying to do it or the way he was being brainwashed because his leaders are not sitting in the country and enjoying in thailand or china is very different the way they they were being fed uh narcotics to you know uh limit their thinking abilities to not feed them with information so that they think whatever is being fed by the leaders is the only truth there's a different thing what narcotics are different ah you you name a thing and it was available there opm ah you name a thing you name a thing are those locals deeply trained in fighting because i know that up north on the india pakistan border people are extremely trained or that's what i've been told again by special forces i'll say the people in northeast they are better fighters because of their living conditions the way i told you they're hunters the stamina levels the


told you they're hunters the stamina levels the genetics they're hunters they are hunters their instincts their their listening capabilities smelling capabilities they they're hunters they hunt to kill and what they kill is what they eat yeah you know i've never met someone from the northeast who doesn't have a clean heart like you know very very good yeah this is probably the nicest section of india absolutely it's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that someone from there would turn into what we term as a terrorist see again these words are very you know confusing terrorist is what somebody who is who uses terror to con convey his her point or to get his job done you know creates fear on society yes in this society but if the society has not taken that he or she into the mainstream or if the society was ignoring he or she for a long long time so who do i blame this was society or the he or she so it's a very you know the lines are


she so it's a very you know the lines are very blur uh again at least in northeast ib what i believe it's all political all diplomatic if the politicians if the diplomacy can take a good stand or have a good assessment of the situation military is not required that is what i feel after serving because they are not that we want a different country even this some factions yes because they were ignored for such a long time no roads no mobile towers no hospitals no schools and when they come outside of northeast you tell them you tell them call them by names you can digest the fact that they're modern they're stylish and you try to you know pull them down so how do how would you feel if somebody starts treating you like i mean if you let's let's say you go to uh uh hyderabad and people start treating you like an alien your community as an alien because you look fair because you have a particular set of features how would you feel and if your village your


features how would you feel and if your village your state would would be neglected for 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 years how would you feel is it still neglected a part of it still neglected last four five years no things have changed lot lots have changed and i'm happy that things are changing roads are coming up mobile towers are coming up the representation of people from north east has gone up and the excellent sportsmen yeah i i don't know why um generally you see this a lot in delhi mumbai especially uh there is this soft racism in pockets i don't understand why they're also indians you know and then they they're our brothers and sisters i i kind of hope to change it in the same i have a lot of black friends just through content through international meetings and they talk about worldwide racism that they face and i feel the same way for them that why you know these guys are so cool i feel the same thing about northeast i'll say it is the lack of


about northeast i'll say it is the lack of good upbringing the lack of being abreast with what's happening in the world the lack of being mature the lack of being a good human being how does it matter if somebody looks black or he looks like an asian or he's short-heighted or he's tall or is not so intelligent how does it matter why should you try and rate him or put him in a particular bracket of you are good you're not so good you're bad or you're not so bad ironically people who are trying to you know outcast them they are no match for those guys ironically they're better than even academics they're better than you in the sense of fashion they live a better life than you because they don't believe in the concept of lots of savings and all deliver you know king size life they enjoy their life they're fearless when it comes to fighting they're excellent sportsmen their villagers villagers are extremely extremely clean they're very


villagers are extremely extremely clean they're very very kind they'll offer food and other things if you've been kind to them what else do you expect i did see a movie called american sniper that helped me a lot as a person just the narrative about it they showed duality of two lives i have a couple of questions uh the first one is just about snipers in general are you also i'm sure you've taken some training or using a sniper no no but it's a very specialized skill the way i was a combat diver or a combat free faller somebody would be a sniper and that's a natural skill set like if they're a better shot mostly there are some fighters who are naturally very very good they require very less amount of training to take a long range shots and there are some who have to be trained so it's a balance between finding the guy who's ready to learn who's hard working and who's naturally good okay and to be very honest in our country we still


and to be very honest in our country we still don't have the concept of snipers why because our terrain doesn't require it no because we have not we did not evolve at a speed with which the world is evolving so what i understand about snipers and again this is limited understanding from honestly video games and movies that in a lot of operations abroad they'll have one or two snipers positioned somewhere at the back to kind of overlook the team in the case of any kind of danger or sometimes even just to be an eye at the back am i correct in saying that from an operations perspective so i'll go a step back you need to understand that any weapon that is firing from a long range is not a sniper okay now these this concept is i would call it or the world will call it as designated marksman rifle the weapon and the guy who's firing is the designated marksman so anything which is i'll say below 800 meters is dmr a dm firing a dmr


meters is dmr a dm firing a dmr sniping is firing 800 meters and beyond till two kilometers people have taken shots at 2.3 kilometers so because the length of the barrel of a dmr is around 18 to 20 inches the round is a bigger round i'm not going to the exact details by round you mean bullet the bullet the grain is much higher the the the weight of the propellant that is inside the round is much higher that the inherent ballistics of the weapon is very good so the place where you want to take the shot and the place where you are aiming is not very different till 600 700 800 meters you aim at a place and you'll get the shot yes if there's a very strong wind you might have some you might have to make some uh correction in windage in the left right correction if the wind is flowing at this speed you might not like to take the aim at the center you aim left or left or right but elevation may you generally


or left or right but elevation may you generally don't what i've also understood is there is an element of lobbying a bullet it is at 1500 1600 1700 meters okay the everything moves in a parabola only okay it's not in a straight a bullet doesn't fire no it's a parabola it's kind of like a curve so anything that you throw you might think that it is straight but it is not straight it has some angle with the horizontal x-axis even a bullet yes yes but it's the angle is less that is why it is more stable there is rifling the bullet is moving in a you know clockwise motion and that is why it is able to travel that much distance the bullet so all those higher concepts they fall when you take a target or trying to engage a target beyond 1200 1300 1400 meters at one mile beyond one mile you have coriolis effect the earth's rotation also plays the role so to take care of those things nowadays you've got good ballistic computers they


things nowadays you've got good ballistic computers they will do that calculation for you wow you've got sites which have those calculators both side that side will do the range calculation wind calculation and tell you to take the shot at a particular place but we could never evolved into that concept we were always in that dmr concept we call it sniper what is dmr designated marksman rifle we had the capability to fire till 600 700 800 meters whether you agree or you don't agree because your ego does not allow that's a different question but we were never i mean in that league of snipers we never had that concept of employment of snipers in that specialist specific role very kind of unrelated question but this is something i always wondered even when i was a kid you know we used to keep hearing about um crime syndicates in mumbai like the whole ibrahim uh phase of mumbai or even before that with the amount of dawns that this city has seen why didn't the government send in the


city has seen why didn't the government send in the special forces of that time to deal with these gangs and just take them out good question and i believe this question makes sense to the people who are listening or going to listen and to the people who make decisions or policies see you raise an organization to fulfill a mandate first of all you make the mandate what is the mandate it is tasking then you raise an organization then you make sub branches in the organization then you equip the organization that is the process so the special forces mandate is to operate across the boundaries behind the enemy lines in a conventional war to neutralize very very important targets apart from that surveillance falana i mean killing vips roadblock different thing now if you want to employ special forces to kill mafia then why do you have the police why was the police raise then so instead of hiring a sword to cut your vegetables sharpen your knife no okay make the knife better yeah we've had d shivanandan on


the knife better yeah we've had d shivanandan on this show who is responsible for actually cleaning up mumbai obviously it was on the most powerful podcast we've done okay and you need strategists and leaders like that yes what i understood from the conversation with him was that he wanted more political support he could have done his job earlier yes he eventually after uh the 26 11 terror attacks he was responsible for cleaning up the city and it's a podcast i highly recommend to you as well but uh um do we do we really see that much urban crime anymore in india would you would you say i don't think so it's not organized i don't think so in pockets maybe yes personal vengeance vendetta maybe yes but organized crime in a manner wherein there's a big you know organization i mean there are there are hierarchies and they're they have a bigger aim i i don't think so i don't think so but you know it's like a very kind of mathematical obviousness


it's like a very kind of mathematical obviousness that if there is organized crime you send in the best warriors in the country to take it out in a night yes that is doable you can go and buy and buy a suit and give it to your cook to cut vegetables can you not do that yeah and the sword will do an excellent job but do you require that sword that is the question okay has the sword been made to cut vegetables that is the question okay maybe for the last part of this particular episode i'd love to ask you a couple of questions one is what's the most beautiful place you've seen on your operations we're just like wow i can't believe that this is a part of this planet and two uh what was the most dastardly place i can i know you highlighted the mountains of the northeast but i want to know one particular place if that was just like too crazy for you okay go with whichever one you're watching okay the most beautiful part i would


you're watching okay the most beautiful part i would say it was in arunachal it was like scotland i mean there are photographs in my profile for a moment you would not know whether it was the set of game of thrones or it was india lakes high altitude lakes blue water pure fresh blue water you know cold breeze you know going past and lush green mountains it was very very beautiful there was this exercise that was happening in [Music] sam and we were supposed to cover only what three and a half four kilometers and i was like we'll just go through it it took me two and a half hours to cover our distance of 800 meters 800 meters two and half hours in the jungles i had no orientation the moment i would start when i say i it is my team the moment we would start hacking you know bushes and undergrowth and start making way we would lose our orientation so we kept doing that for two and a half hours what when you're talking about the most


half hours what when you're talking about the most dastardly okay when you say losing your orientation is it because of the fog is it because the jungle looks the same everywhere yes both no reference point no tracks this moment you start hacking you will realize that the next tree cannot be hacked because it's very very strong so you try and hack a softer undergrowth and you do that for 10 steps you go in some other direction and what's the apex predator in these jungles probably tigers predator no there are no tigers there are no tigers there are no lions there no tigers there are no wolves in assam predator predator maybe leopard maybe leopards you're right maybe leopards apart from that bears absolutely i've seen seen bear otherwise i don't i don't think there's a there's a very big uh cat or a carnivore animal roaming around there okay do you think there's animals that are not discovered because of the density of these jungles possible very very likely i


density of these jungles possible very very likely i mean because the jungles they stretch for kilometers in kilometers and kilometers and that could be possible there's a geopolitical controversy according to which there are certain countries which are shown much smaller in size on maps than they actually are somalia and democratic republic of congo are two countries like this okay i'm sure there are asian countries as well okay parallelly the western powers are shown bigger than they are oh i didn't know that yeah and this is a real thing you can like go check it out somalia and dr congo i am dead sure no wonder when the colony i mean these people would have moved out of their colonies i believe belgium was in charge of congo i'm not wrong yes so they would have done they would have i mean they would have felt bad you know all the diamonds and yeah other precious stones are going so let us do that you you've seen the map of africa yeah you've seen how the countries have


of africa yeah you've seen how the countries have been divided straight lines it's it's also a divide and rule mentality they split tribes up into two countries yes yes so they they've war with the other tribes and the countries that they've split into make a small strip put a plane carry the minerals yeah but you know when you look at it at a more macro scale in terms of history uh all this has been done what in the last 50 years which is very small when you compare to all of human history and the truth about human history is that borders keep changing true i would personally like to believe that eventually we will move into more peaceful times where they'll change borders slightly i wouldn't be surprised to see indian borders changing towards india's benefit as well true uh but let's let's see where time takes diplomacy will dictate yeah but the reason i brought up this thing about land masses being shown as smaller bigger than they are is because when you specifically


bigger than they are is because when you specifically speak about the congo the jungles there are so dense i believe congo is roughly the size of india if i'm not mistaken i believe no i believe it's smaller because in the uh article i read about the somalia angle they said that it's the exact same land size as america which is huge yeah america yes he compared it to usa oh he said that actually if you see the landmass it's the same it's just that somalia is a lot more underdeveloped and a lot less popular okay okay so uh you know even when we when we spoke himalayan explorers on the show here devon kaplan i'm sure you must have seen that episode or major jacob y'all keep repeating the fact that listen we are the humans who've gone out there we've seen how big land masses can be and 110 not all of this planet is explored i agree so keep angry keeping that in mind you don't know there might be a


that in mind you don't know there might be a parallel civilization thriving in the amazon rainforest yeah even today even today like in special forces i mean you've seen such one you've seen deeply disciplined organized teamwork you've seen adventures like this you've had insane life and i'm i'm not a very [Music] somehow i have some sanity in my head i i don't go into extremes or if i go into extreme i don't expect the guy or the girl in front of me to go into extreme do you feel out of place in cities no you're still i don't carry the baggage okay yeah i want to actually say something very straightforward to you um as a podcaster you definitely develop the skill of podcasting it's an art form you definitely can look into people's hearts probably deeper than they can also look into their own hearts because you've just seen so many so many um major sushant singh was the first special forces veteran i met who i felt wasn't


forces veteran i met who i felt wasn't dealing with some form of ptsd okay and uh i thought and and we were maybe five six of them on the show all the others had something going on in their emotional minds and especially for men because we're taught to be tough since well when you are you know supposed to cry and supposed to be soft you cannot be expressing everything and all that you're the second person that i've seen like this and uh in terms of personality one person whose personality is similar to your suresh right now we are on show just really tough i met him last year in ipl yeah great guy very tough tough man um you've been one of the easiest podcast but one of the toughest guys i've met in my life so there's there's nothing going on emotionally after everything you've seen no i had a emotional void for a long time because of the disconnect that i had but somehow maybe it's upbringing maybe it's my way of


maybe it's upbringing maybe it's my way of pacifying my subconsciousness maybe i've trained my subconsciousness over a period of time i neither go into i don't slump into depression i don't get very very happy if things are very good i am most of the times i'm balanced shiva most of the time i'm balanced if that is i mean i would love to uh again it's again it's a big topic whether he was a god whether he was a man whether he was a man who was who had you know godly characteristics whether he was a demigod but i have learned this over a period of time and i and i and i like that third paragraph of the poem if and i would read it every day when i was in india every day wait let's let's check the poem because and the reason i'm pushing for this is because it's my favorite poem of all time yeah that and um my favorite too yeah have you heard invictus yes yes invictus is a little difficult


invictus yes yes invictus is a little difficult to comprehend little difficult it's not a very easy poem to understand at least this one if you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one ton of pitch and pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss if you can force your heart and nerve and sin you to serve your tongue long after they are gone and so hold on when there's nothing in you accept the will which says to them hold on that's my favorite paragraph boom that has kept me you know come what me we'll fight it out they cling we'll see this is an honor speaking like just learning from you you're you're something else you know um all of us are different it's a matter of time how much time you invest and now at this instant i want to spend time with my daughter so i'm very clear clarity of thought somebody might offer me 10 likes and tell me why


somebody might offer me 10 likes and tell me why you come and work here i'll say no just for the i mean one example so that clarity of thought is very very important what do you want to do why do you want to do and yeah so major sab i invite you again on the show uh and just like thank you from the bottom of our hearts collectively all of us in the room also just grip so any last signing of notes for the audience because uh we're kind of hoping that these podcasts add to the branding of the indian military in general do you have any last message i've always believed in a fact in the fact that be a good human being first then you can become a good ranveer you can become a good joe rogan you can become a good tiger wood you can become good michael schumacher you can become anything you may or may not become or you may or may not succeed professionally you might not earn a lot of money but


professionally you might not earn a lot of money but every day when you go on to your bed and you sleep you sleep like a child the way i sleep no regrets no vendetta no impractical ambitions when i just go and sleep i sleep but when i'm going to die whether it's disease or accident or whatever i don't want to have regrets i don't want to i mean i don't want to go down with a feeling that you know i could have done that maybe i could have helped somebody make maybe i could have done something it's okay i mean and and and don't get into a rat race of my advice everybody's running so let me also run everybody is earning money so let me also earn money everybody is trying to score 99 and match so let me also score 99 no no find your zen find your center of gravity find out who you are muji i knew i i love weapons i knew i had lots of energy i i knew i i can do something or


energy i i knew i i can do something or contribute in one particular field god was kind maybe i was positive maybe i tried and helped people maybe i accumulated good karma and and that's a cycle it's just a cycle you do good you get good you do good you get good major awareness so thank you honor pleasure and i salute you on behalf of the whole nation thank you for your service privilege to have been invited and it's it's a special platform wherein you know i come from a very small city these concepts were beyond my imagination you know that someday there will be something called podcast and a guy like you and your team will you know call me from podcast and whatever i speak is my perception and it is my experience and i hope that this experience can help somebody who is in a difficult time who's in doldrums and that be it good karma and then i get some good products helping people more than you know sir linking down below


people more than you know sir linking down below make sure you follow us on turn them into social media uh star on mostar happiness no sir you're you're just an incredible person and moments like this are the reason i feel good about starting the podcast conversations like this that this is much more worth than the money or the fame like it's it's these moments and memories thank you so thank you thank you this means a lot thank you so that was the conversation with major avinash sahani once again i would nudge you to check out a highlights channel trs clips because you'll get even more content on that channel i don't even know what to say about this man just meeting parasf veterans is an experience in itself and it's one of the big blessings of my career that i get to interact with people like this i love conversations with entrepreneurs with sports personalities with film personalities but this is what i call a life this is what i call true exploration this is what


this is what i call true exploration this is what i call real hardcore experiences just grateful at this point to major avinashani and all the parasff veterans or the general military special forces veterans that make an appearance on the runway show this is just the start of a new journey for us we're gonna bring a lot more veterans from the special forces on the podcast and that's why i highly recommend you follow us on spotify every episode is available on spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world as i always say trs is just getting started military conversations have my whole heart thank you major aminah sahani thank you to the indian military in general jai hind this is just the beginning of the military content you're gonna see on these channels [Music] you


and what about parshuram he just went and definitely not see parshuram had a personal Grudge to begin with which he settled he settled the score by killing karthaviraj Arjun you know who was the antagonist in the story he did not have to do it 21 times same for Lord Ram you know he said ideals for the entire Society to follow and uh in fact he suggested in both the cases where he killed Valley and he killed ravan he suggested that the next king marry the queen so so grief actually married Tara who was Valley's wife and he and ramen showed that angad who was vali's son would be uh made the heir to the kingdom similarly in Lanka vivishan actually married mandodari not a lot of people know that episodes with Dr vineeth Agarwal always tell her they are some of our most well received episodes because as is the case with the best podcast guests Dr Vinita Agarwal is extremely well read and he doesn't


Agarwal is extremely well read and he doesn't just view his subject of ancient Indian culture as a subject in itself he views it in conjunction with ancient history in conjunction with Tantra in conjunction with science and these are the elements that we brought to this particular conversation while it's mostly centered around kalki or the reason for the apocalypse according to Indian culture the final Avatar of Vishnu we also spoke about elements of ancient history very very fascinating conversation it's conversations like this that become flag post conversations for our team because we know the quality of content packed into these episodes for more episodes like this make sure you follow us on Spotify for Spotify exclusive which means that every episode is available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world if you've ever wanted to learn more about Indian culture and not just about kalki this is the episode for you and if this is the first episode with Vinita Agarwal that you're checking out I promise you you're


that you're checking out I promise you you're going to enjoy all the other episodes and I also nudge you to check out our Hindi podcast where we've covered even more topics with this Mastermind of ancient Indian culture Dr Vanita garhwal returns in the ranvee show now [Music] it's gonna be a super hit Blockbuster podcast with Dr vinit Agarwal again welcome back so thank you so much it's good to be back how do you feel after the last two incredibly well received last four actually not two uh three oh yeah okay I don't know I just lose my sense of logic that's fine but each and every one of them was a super hit man all crossed a million views which we can't say about a lot of guests and it's often a great Tell-Tale sign about who we should be creating unlimited number of conversations with welcome back thank you so much ranveer I think it's also a sign of the content that people are looking forward to you know it's a lot of people


looking forward to you know it's a lot of people I think have relies over the years that a lot of people are invested in knowing about their culture and their Heritage and that knowledge has not been very easily available till now so I think podcasts like the ones that you have been doing are very very helpful you know be it with uh gaur gopal Das Prabhu or with you know abhiji chawla so or with anyone I mean who is knowledgeable about Indian history and culture I think that has been the uh uptake you know which has happened over the years yeah there's a certain kind of content that you can only gain from listening to podcasts you know so while people think that oh the podcast phase is done I don't think so I think there's a lot more knowledge to be Unearthed in India but that's what I think today because you're in front of me let's talk about the topic for today we're gonna do a kind of PC podcast uh this one specifically about


kind of PC podcast uh this one specifically about the kalki avtar which is one of our most highly requested podcasts I honestly don't know where to begin this conversation we chalked out five points that we'll cover but maybe the pre-point is a sort of brief outlook on what kalki is um think of the word Antichrist think of the word Messiah think of the word apocalypse think of the word future of Hinduism that's a phrase but think of these kind of ideas and that's where the kalki avtar lies how do you firstly like to describe the word of the second degree could you give us a brief overview on what kalki avtar is so see first of all to begin with you know we understand that in Hinduism there is a Trinity right so we spoke about a couple of gods and goddesses in the previous podcast and we understood that you know there's a hierarchy of gods and Lord Vishnu amongst them you know is one of the highest Gods


them you know is one of the highest Gods Among the Trinity and he is the person responsible for preserving this universe he's the maintainer the preserver of this universe so the word Avatar actually comes from the puranas where it is mentioned that Lord Vishnu primarily replies to Lord Vishnu because he's the one who is responsible for this uh particular function you know so he descends on the planet Earth or in other locals in a different form not as Vishnu himself but he takes a specific form to fulfill a specific purpose which is required for that particular time period and that is that is The Descent of God onto the Mortal realm because you've also studied uh the shiv puran I wanna ask you why isn't there that much of a kind of popularity of Shiva because a part of Hinduism which is considers Shiva is the ultimate vaishnavism counts Vishnu is the ultimate so why is there not enough talk about Shiva doing the same I think shiva's purpose itself


doing the same I think shiva's purpose itself is different you know it's like in an organization when you have different functions which are supposed to do something Finance is supposed to do something completely different and marketing and sales do completely different uh you know functions so it's very similar for the Trinity where Brahma is supposed to be responsible for the creation right once creation is done brahma's job for that day is over and then comes into play vishnu's uh requirement you know maintenance maintenance you know to make sure things are running smoothly and it's not related to the basic stuff it's about the maintaining the overall balance of Good and Evil in the world and why is there a need for evil right I think that's that's a very interesting question that a lot of people have you know why does evil exist you know in the first place so um a lot of Scholars have tried to analyze it like Swami Vivekananda mentioned that you know evil is just the absence of God you know so darkness


just the absence of God you know so darkness is just the absence of light so it's the same for evil you know wherever there's a preponderance of ungodly activities or ungodly thoughts that is what you call evil and in another way you can understand evil is associated with ego right whenever you see any example of evil in the world whether it is from history whether it is from scriptures puranas epics ramayan Mahabharata evil the people we consider evil or overarchingly evil you know maybe it's not complete black and white but Shades of Gray were more of gray more of black is there you know in that character you see a preponderance of ego in that person that person is driven solely by personal ambition it's not a concern for development of the Society of the family of the country of the nation of the world it's about persons own development own ambition own greed or lust or bloodlust you know so that is evil keeping this in mind um you know I want to also kind


in mind um you know I want to also kind of highlight the yogic aspect of what evil means uh this is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around but basically Hinduism does speak about its own form of satanism like when we say Satan or the devil it's often a commentary about the evil that's present within everyone's Minds right and how your mind is a combination of God and the devil God all the good traits and the devil which are all the bad days and they're constantly at War yes depending on your habits your friends uh your choices in life yes you kind of uh make one of the two more dominant over the other one uh also keeping this in mind I remember there is to be the show BR chopra's Mahabharata where the start of the show The theme song was you can forget that yeah so uh that entire shloka talks about the fact that when The Evil Within the average human's mind becomes more dominant over the god Factor yes that's when God


dominant over the god Factor yes that's when God has to take birth in the form of a I won't say person I'll probably say organism on this Earth a being a being on this Earth to flatten things out again right and remind people that they need to balance their inner World out much more yes some people would even consider things like a pandemic or a worldwide scale disaster a kind of reminder so now would you would you say that avtars actually exists as beings or would you say that even when Nature lashes out at us and says that no you'll have polluted this planet too much you'll have killed too many of the other organisms on this planet here's your whatever resultant uh outcome is that also an element of an after recording uh I feel you know um our understanding of the Avatar is uh very limited to you know we generally consider Avatar as a entity or a being you know where God's personality is visible you know the Avatar is doing certain things that are out of this world you


doing certain things that are out of this world you know the Avatar may not tell that I am an avatar but you know the kind of things that for example parshuram did or Krishna did you know what sriram did you know they are self-evident that this is someone out of the ordinary when we talk about natural calamities I feel it's more of a sign of prakriti or Devi or Shakti you know who's the destructive force or which is a form of the female aspect of God yes prakriti or nature or Maya or uh you know so various philosophies in Hinduism they talk about purush and prakriti you know so it's God and the energy and God may be considered whether you consider him as Vishnu or a Shiva Shakti is common right Shakti is the female personification of energy and these natural calamities I feel are more of a pushback from nature that we have been over exploited from Mother Nature Mother Nature so she's Mother Nature she's Shakti


Mother Nature so she's Mother Nature she's Shakti she's prakriti she's the one who's responsible even in the vaishnav qurans Shakti is responsible for maintenance of this entire uh the protection of this entire universe so maintenance even though it is Lord vishnu's Forte Shakti is the reason everything is moving you know she is the energy behind every single thing that happens in this world so there is a Synergy between the different gods and goddesses the forms of gods and goddesses that we understand and we have to realize that you know all these are different facets of the same Supreme Being so whether God comes down as a human-like person ashriram whether he appears as a vaman or a kurma or a matsya purpose is to balance the forces of Good and Evil uh whenever you see a natural Calamity you have to understand this is the female energy that is acting up you know which is sort of trying to teach us a lesson because we are exploiting


to teach us a lesson because we are exploiting nature I mean nobody can deny that right Nature has been exploited over years over centuries now and there has to be a pushback even in Mumbai recently also you must have seen those pictures where you know the sea has thrown back all the wastes that was dumped into it you know the entire Beach I think at dadar probably was littered with plastic and you know you it's a clear sign you take back what's yours I don't want it you know and when when you asking about Shiva and Vishnu I think that's a very um basic thing that we need to understand about these gods and goddesses is that uh scientifically what do these principles mean Shiva is time right so everything happens in due course of time Lord Vishnu can come today as kalki he can wipe out evil but no he will come at a certain time so there is always an element of Shiva in whatever Vishnu does and vice versa and vice


in whatever Vishnu does and vice versa and vice versa so they are not mutually exclusive right and similarly goddess energy without the energy you know Tantra says that you know without the Shakti Shiva can be considered a shavu what is that a corpse which does not sound very good but that is what Tantra says so what it means is that they are not mutually exclusive again you know the female and the male uh propensities or the female or the male energies are not mutually exclusive that is the whole reason of showing God as other than our ishwar there are various forms of God where he's depicted as harihar Vishnu and Shiva combined so these are ways to make us understand that you know stop being sectarian and stop you know picking your favorite gods and fighting over it yeah these are just different facets of the same Supreme Being 100 you know that's one hack we actually use to get more clicks on our videos because people for some reason all over India are very


because people for some reason all over India are very concerned when there are fights happening it's why we see so many of these rappers what's the word dissing each other and all that and just gets abuse like people want to bring the disc culture even to uh talk about ancient culture right even to talk about God yes um keeping that in mind I have to bring you to the brief outlook on kalki for someone who's got no idea what kalki even means why did you even begin this conversation right so kalki is the last and final Avatar who's supposed to come uh down descend on this planet it is and in the popular list of 10 avatars this will be the 10th or the last one and it's not arrived yet it's hasn't arrived yet it is predicted to arrive towards the end of kaliyuk so there's a long long long time to go but there are various aspects of kalki uh that have been described such as where he would be born you know


described such as where he would be born you know what would be the name of his parents who is he going to marry you know what are the Feats that he's going to perform in his life you know the name of his vehicle you know a horse a Divine horse uh you know the kind of weapons he'll be using who he'll be praying to and uh who will be the villain in the story you give me details I see views uh what I will what I will definitely say to the listeners during this conversation is we're going to bring in elements of ancient human history here we're going to be talking about weapons we're going to be talking about a human being's process of evolution of course we're going to be talking about cultural uh inputs from our purans we've divided this particular episode into five sections the first section is all about ancient human history because we have to kind of look at all this from a scientific perspective also so I was listening to this amazing podcast with


so I was listening to this amazing podcast with someone called Randall Carlson he was on The Joe Rogan Experience and I highly recommend that listeners go check out all of Randall Carlson's episodes his subject is ancient history history before we learned how to write right now he spoke about how roughly two lakh years ago the first Homo Sapien had arrived so if you took that particular Homo Sapien and put normal clothes on that person and made them walk around you wouldn't even come to know that it's someone from agency they look just like us right but our written records can only Trace back up to about 10 000 years ago yes probably say around 10 000 BC because now we know that the rig wave is written roughly at about that time right so be some lots of people consider the way the oldest text in the world yes would I be writing significantly okay uh and would you say 10 000 BC is roughly the month so um some verses that mention some astrological conjunctions Etc


some verses that mention some astrological conjunctions Etc they can be traced to around that time okay yes okay I mean although the rigved wasn't written down for the longest time you know it was past orally most of scriptures are passed on overly through generations and then they were written down so it would not be correct to say that it was written down at that time it was definitely composed much much earlier and some of the verses do mention some astral conjunctions that correspond to roughly around that period okay um what I also want to highlight here is when you do 2 lakh minus 12 000 because 10 000 BC was twelve thousand years ago you have what one lakh 88 000 years of human history which we know very less about because over that kind of a time period even bones degrade even plastic which we know today would degrade in like 2000 to 3000 years all the plastic that we know so even if some human civilization had created plastic way before we don't have a trace


created plastic way before we don't have a trace of that true the only thing that could survive one lakh 88 000 years and probably meteor showers and ice ages and natural calamities is rock formations or Stones like the pyramids would have survived or um you know just anything made out of rock yes which is why we have elements from the Stone Age which are still perfect so we kind of know what was happening a little bit before say two lakh years ago right and then from this period of two lakh years to about 10 000 BC we don't know what happened true now apparently when I'm a nice Hindu boy and I study the Vishnu puran and I study the 10 of tars one lakh 88 000 years is a long enough time for nine after hours to have happened according to me right when was Buddha which is the last mentioned after when did he exist so there's a there's a bit of controversy about that as well but most Scholars say around 500 between


that as well but most Scholars say around 500 between 500 to 600 BC okay which is fairly recent which is fairly recent and that's fine because you know Buddha was supposed to have uh come down uh in kaliyog you know so and kalyug is what started around 3102 BC according to aryabhatta so and which also corresponds with krishna's death if I'm not mistake yes yes yes so it was only after Krishna left this planet that Kali could begin his reign and Kali you know when because you were talking about Satan earlier Kali is the closest Hindu counterpart that you can find to Satan because Kali is supposed to live in four places right and one is where there's alcohol consumed one is where there is uh illegal sex illicit sex you know maybe prostitution where there is uh gold money materialism materialism gambling dense so you know these are the kind of places where Kali is supposed to thrive so this is the closest you can come to the concept of


is the closest you can come to the concept of Satan in Hinduism again it makes me go back to that thing about kali's present within all of us right it's probably elevated in these four places yes yes because these four places kind of they tend to bring out the worst in you you know in a gambling den you're frustrated you're angry if you're losing right the anger the you know in a different place you know in a Tavern where you're drinking you know where alcohol is being served you kind of lose your uh ability to control yourself you know the faculties are inhibited of uh inhibition is inhibited basically right you become more free and you tend to act out on those tendencies that are coming coming in your mind so a lot of these places Kali rules because of your baser instincts becoming more prominent and that's what a devil or Satan is supposed to do right he's supposed to turn you into a bad person and that is exactly what


you into a bad person and that is exactly what Kali is doing here so coming from a perspective of History you know there's there's a huge huge period that is missing because of the ice ages also so there's a very long Ice Age you know which started around one and a half uh lakh years ago it lasted till about 10 000 uh years ago or 10 000 BC roughly I think so there is a lot that could have got covered or buried under the snow which is what there's another uh historical gram Hancock and his life center mission is uncovering aspects of different world cultures that the world has forgotten yes for example in India he uh is doing a lot of deep sea diving right outside Tamil Nadu right uh and the coast of India generally right to find out uh basically Lost Cities definitely because technically in an ice age what happens massive ice glaciers get formed all over the world yes four eyes to get formed you need water but there's a limited amount of water


you need water but there's a limited amount of water in on the earth where's the water coming from probably coming from the ocean which frees out become huge glaciers so that effectively means water levels go down sea levels over tens of thousands of years and then you have an opportunity to create cities yes wet today oceans exist exactly exactly that's why all over the world you know across the populated regions if you do research in any of the Bays or coastlines where there is still a lot of population abiding you find a lot of excavations you find a lot of remnants of the past it's just that we still haven't explored in India I don't know why for what reason we stop the exploration you know after the discovery of dwarka even that wasn't fully explode I feel and there is a lot more that can be done so Graham Hancock did do a lot of good work in finding out some of these um you know lost arcs of civilization you know along our


know lost arcs of civilization you know along our Coast but uh that being said you know there's also an evolution in the uh mindset of humanity you know when we're talking about the early human beings two luck years ago they would not probably think the way we do right I think you know the for the early man it was a struggle to survive in a harsh environment and when the ice ages happened a major chunk of humanity vanished and it was only in the tropics which was you know maybe parts of Middle East Africa India tropical regions where Humanity had reached by the time near the Aztec and Mayan civilization yeah that happened quite late actually Aztec and mind civilizations Humanity I think the last episode we spoke about the movement of populations across the Bering Strait into the Americas which happened very very late majorly the humanity was concentrated in this part of the world this is afro-asia afro-asia and even here it was the tropical zones which had been


even here it was the tropical zones which had been inhabited so there are studies genetic studies that show the original Aborigines of Australia are connected to the people living in andamans and you know so some people must have taken the sea route and some people went through the the land and then the ice ages happened so people were stuck wherever they were so most of the development happened only in these regions the rest of the world was inhabited by living beings but not Homo sapiens in Europe they were the near death holes you know there were other species all over the globe I think Dennis Owen was in Asia yes Russia and like Japan and these places yes and here in India also you know there have been different uh uh Speech sort of subspecies which were discovered you know the ramapithecus and shivapas wow yeah yeah they've been named after Indian gods but there are species that were discovered in the shivalik hills in Nepal which are cousins of uh Homo sapiens


which are cousins of uh Homo sapiens yes wow so they were definitely hominids you know they're called hominids there were definitely hominids here there are there's evidence of tools ancient tools being used right from uh the uh you know there's a Swan Valley there's uh region of Pakistan India Nepal in Rajasthan you know there have been discoveries of stone tools Etc so and of course you know in the central part of the country where it is postulated that most of the migrations from Africa into India were located around the center probably because they came through the Sea and the central region had the oldest inhabitants of this continent of the subcontinent the central region central region of India Pradesh you know so most of the tribals that you find the more most ancient tribes you know the goons and the other tribes in chhattisgarh jharkhand they are all centered around that region right and these people were probably the original inhabitants of this country that is not to say that there


of this country that is not to say that there was a migration of Aryan so there was a migration of Ravi didn't know the moved into different parts of the country there's they moved to the north they move to the South they develop different characteristics there was intermingling of populations of course of successive Bachelors Coming Out of Africa Etc a lot could have happened but it is postulated that the central region of the country had the oldest inhabitants you know speaking about this Central uh region of India of course we've covered a lot of aspects of the same concept with abhiji chavda and he talks about how very likely during the Ice Age because it was this one strip of land that was inhabited culture had probably developed here and once the the earth started warming up in its most recent warming up phase because even warming up and cooling down happen cyclically in his most recent warming up phase people move from here towards parts of Europe right and that's why you see so many


of Europe right and that's why you see so many parallels between Greek culture Roman culture uh the ancient culture of Syria which I Feel Again is an offshoot of uh ancient Hindu culture um and you know and the same could be said about the southeast as well it's because most of the human population was centered around this region yes I think in the last podcast we spoke about all the parallels between Zoroastrianism and Hinduism it could have been an offshoot of the same seed religion right you know we don't have to say oh this one came first or that one came first it's probably something some third thing that came first off which we are both offshoots so I uh Runway away right you know a lot of Western Scholars tend to start with the premise that you know civilization moved into India but the genetic Studies have proved otherwise that people moved out of India you know so it's very it's counterintuitive to say that you know while people moved out civilization moved in


that you know while people moved out civilization moved in doesn't really make any logical sense right so it has to be Anar purans actually talk about people moving out you know there's a story of the king called yayati and yayati had five sons and it's a very interesting story where you know this person this King he did not want to relinquish his throne right and he did not even though he had five very able Sons he did not want to let go of the pleasures that come with being a king right the luxuries and the pleasures that come with being a king so he asks one of his sons to exchange their youth with him okay so most of his son's refuse they're like you have lived your life it's our time you should relinquish the throne go to the forest take sannyas and give it to us right the throne so none of them agree except one and that kid is the youngest and he is ultimately made the king later on you know because yayati is


the king later on you know because yayati is very happy with his sense of sacrifice that he's ready to sacrifice his life for the sake of his father and the other four are banished and they move out in different directions so the story says that some of them actually move to the West they moved to the towards the West I think if I remember correctly there was some turbasha I think moved towards the South there was another uh yayati moved towards uh sorry um yadu moved towards the West so you have yadavs centered around the western region and puru remain in the center so that's where the kingdoms of hastinapur Etc they came up later so and one of the sons moved towards the Eastern uh Direction so uh there is a quranic legend which tells us that people did move out they did take this civilization out of our borders across our borders and uh even in later literature uh you say uh you see the term called yavanas so yavana refers


see the term called yavanas so yavana refers to Greeks in the historical times you know when Alexander came yavana used to refer to a Greek and yavana is actually derived from Anu you know so Anu anu's descendants were the anavs which probably became yavanas later so these were the people who moved in a western direction there's a very clear-cut uh you know a story mentioned in our purans and even otherwise if you see the scriptures you know the geographical descriptions in their egway the oldest parts of Rigby talk about the rivers around the Indian subcontinent they don't really talk about rivers in the West and as you move to the later uh aspects of rigvedo later parts of regulate you start seeing preponderance of uh Western Rivers wow so it's a very interesting study and I don't know why people like to keep flogging a dead horse and again keep talking about the same uh Theory which has no bases you know you talk about the Aryan the RN Invasion Theory you know


about the Aryan the RN Invasion Theory you know it has no bases no logic it's got geopolitical significance exactly that's it that's it and it serves them to keep uh you know keep the theory alive and of course even in India there is a uh sort of a political movement against you know the RN and the dravidian Divide so there is um and there's a geopolitical strategy to it but otherwise it doesn't make sense you know and yeah you know like speaking about uh this whole four Direction concept it's there in the ramayana as well when uh RAM takes the help of sugary who's supposed to be the king of the vanaras or the monkeys I mean that's what people understand the word yes so they sent four troops one in each Direction and the one that goes towards the South finds Sita minda which is I think headed by Hanuman yeah obviously yes uh now my questionnaire is we mentioned Dennis Owens and Neanderthals and I'm saying this very respectfully um


and I'm saying this very respectfully um could there have been a possibility that the vanaras that we read about was some sort of cousin of the homo sapien very likely okay it's a way it's a definite possibility you know I think it will be foolish to refuse that uh it's a possibility even you know when do you think the Raman whatever happened uh well according to Scriptures it was a really long time ago because it did not happen in this cycle it happened in the 24th mahayuga which could have been when millions of years ago actually millions of years ago so for us uh you know currently we are in the 28th Maha yoga 28th cycle and Raman happened in the 24th mahayuga so so there have been two you know there have been a lot there's been a long time you know you know if there's listeners listening to this with skeptical ears what I also want to say is human beings today are closer to Cleopatra than


human beings today are closer to Cleopatra than Cleopatra was to the pyramids that's what people don't understand about timelines yes I don't know about millions of years ago but I'm ready to believe at least a lack Definitely Maybe a lack and a half yes so the theory of you guys and you know the duration of you guys is not very well understood even till now you know not a not a lot of people have been able to decipher it completely including myself there's these micro schools in Hinduism which war against each other no my opinion on the you guys is the ultimate yes and there's this whole theory of ascending and descending yogas which actually does not find bases in scriptures you know it a lot of people do follow it or do believe in it but none of the scriptures scriptures actually talk about an ascending or a descending yoga it's a cycle it's a continuous cycle so um whenever it happened you know whether it was millions of years ago


you know whether it was millions of years ago or thousands of years ago the fact is that you know there would be different species existing at that time yeah you know and I feel it's very very likely I can't believe how much I'm quoting the Randall Carlson episode but there was one more crazy factor that you know it kind of goes in line with the things you're saying like uh while we know that the presence of human beings has always been harmful towards all animals like you know so much of it is written sayings as well like wherever we went we destroyed the animal kingdom of that place we also need to keep in context that 99 of all animals that have ever existed have now gone extinct yes what we know of as all the possible species in the world that are present today they're one percent of whatever's existed on earth right and we don't even know what we don't know and same is true probably for other species also you know because Homo sapiens was the


species also you know because Homo sapiens was the smartest you know we could have easily wiped out the others you know and it is said that you know there was definitely intermingling of the species where you know neanderthals if I'm not uh mistaken you know it said that you know the light eyes of colors it's come down from neanderthals yeah yeah in Europe yeah so that there is Neanderthal blood in Caucasian humans of today yes so there is there was a definite intermingling we have stories about uh you know intermarriages of species between Devas asuras between humans manavs apsaras between varners and uh you know other species so probably you know these refer to different kinds of uh subspecies of humans that were existing at that time you know which we haven't discovered or we haven't found the connection yeah you know it's like when you study the timeline of the earth which is billions of years old you basically kind of look at yourself as just some sort of advanced fungus


at yourself as just some sort of advanced fungus that's growing on this planet as conducive to the growth of fungus yes but anyway go on so no that reminds me you know in school and science uh I remember you know there was an analogy of uh if you plot the history of the Earth on a clock human beings have have appeared right I think at the last second of the clock striking 12 yeah you know so that's how young we are and then we presume to know we presume to believe that you know we know everything that has happened uh on this planet yeah just just in the last 10 years so much history has been disproven you know beard grandma and gox work stuff that Randall Carlson talks about stuff that the internet and the podcasting cultures kind of uh uncovered like I learned so much every time I speak to you but um maybe before we just head into that uh kalki conversation which we still not bigger no we haven't reached them podcast


not bigger no we haven't reached them podcast that's the joy of podcasting honestly um you know keeping in mind this vanra Theory do you know anything more about Banaras uh Runners yeah so I um I think there has been some sort of research which has been done you know where people have postulated that you know when humans migrated Out of Africa and since there is a connection between Aborigines of Australia and the tribe builds of you know andamans or some remote places within India this is a theory that probably these could be the first humans who have migrated Out of Africa so it's kind of a racist Theory it's not really a racist Theory as in but it is more of a developmental Theory you know where they were the more primitive humans you know it may not necessarily be uh related to a race it is the same humans ultimately with the same right we all look the same when we moved out of Africa we were all probably black right because there were no uh selective um uh


black right because there were no uh selective um uh genes that were that we were exposed to that got uh you know because uh light skin and you know on different other adaptations came when we moved to different climates yeah and I think abhiji chowder had mentioned that it takes about just 10 generations for you to look drastically different according to the climate so when we moved out of Africa probably all of us look the same but it was just you know when you move out and you're exposed to a new place New Challenges you your brain develops more and you know from a early man stage to today's modern human we are uh so just to be clear when they talk about varners it's not black people because definitely on a lot of Western podcasts they actually say there was a racist Theory no no not at all it's probably some precursor to homosexual yes yes possibly yes yes definitely it does not in any way mean a race it is probably a civilization or a culture which was not as developed


civilization or a culture which was not as developed as today's Homo sapiens and because you clearly see right they lived in jungles they lived in caves they lived in they followed a rule which was very similar to the rule of uh you know a forest where might is right you know whereas in a city from where Ram had come you know the whole encounter between RAM and Wali it clearly shows a uh you know the opposite ends of spectrum of values where Ram says that as a older brother Valley should have protected sugriv because he's his the younger brother instead Valley has thrown him out taken his wife and you know he and Valley is countering it by saying that you know might is right you know and Valley had a boon nobody could have defeated him so it's not fair whereas in a civilization in a civilized World Ram says that you are supposed to take care of your younger brother like your son you know how do the weak survive in


son you know how do the weak survive in this world only when civilization exists in the jungle or in the forest we don't survive we got wiped off you know it's the slowest animal that is captured by a lion you know the slowest deer or Fawn is what gets pounced upon so only in a civilized world can the weak survive yeah again you know I think as listeners and us people who study this culture we need to bring emotion out of the conversation and see it for what it was see it based on the information we're given see it almost from a scientific basis you're given a certain a number of facts figures sentences in these scriptures you tie it into modern day logic you you know when when Concepts like this are pitched where okay the Vanessa could have been some sort of primitive version of the homo sapien don't get offended by it it's so like it's so silly to get offended by it that means you're letting your emotions like take over your logical


you're letting your emotions like take over your logical side uh and again this thing is from a place of respect yes of course we are trying to understand as much as anyone else you know we are trying to make sense of it by having these discussions it's not disrespectful disrespectful in any way to anyone we believe in the Divinity of Hanuman the same as you believe in the Divinity of Lord Rama you know it does not disrespect any of them by saying if you know one was coming from the cities and another from a different culture which was based in the forest yeah so much to unpack here man this is why I love the history that you learn after school or college any coming back to uh the topic you were talking about how other other cultures also speak about what they call an antichrist or what they call a messiah or what they call um you know just some form of God that visits Earth for a purge yes uh I think even even an ancient Judaism when


uh I think even even an ancient Judaism when they're talking about Moses and his story there are so many dark elements that God sends to test human beings of ancient Egypt at that time right uh so there's always this Fierce element of God yes that is supposed to visit Earth uh one of the avatars of Vishnu was parshuram who's supposed to be alive till today was a chiranjeevi who's gone beyond life and death and his whole purpose was violent yes have a violent purpose as well completely I think the whole kalki is the parshuram for the modern era you know so uh there is absolutely no denying the fact that kalki will be a violent person you know but it is not senseless or mindless violence you know there's a purpose to it and kalki's purpose is to rid the world of the asurik forces or the Demonic forces or the forces of evil God you you have any input from other cultures so there are uh um you know references of


cultures so there are uh um you know references of uh similar Messiahs coming towards the end of the uh towards the Judgment Day the abrahamic religions they call it the Judgment Day when the world is going to end and that's when the Judgment of all the souls all the all the people who have passed away would be done you know whether you're going to heaven or hell so towards the end of the world you know when the Judgment Day is about to happen in Christianity there is a prediction of a fourth uh Horseman coming you know I if I'm not mistaken fourth or the fifth Horseman coming and I think it's Fourth and The Horseman is supposed to be very similar to kalki you know in the sense that kalki is riding a Divine horse called devdat you know and kalki is supposed to uh rate the entire world of the evil Kings and the horse man is supposed to do exactly the same where you know the uh it's mentioned


the same where you know the uh it's mentioned that the armies of uh Earth would be aligned to face the horsemen but still he would Smite them you know with a sword and uh stuff it's very similar and again even in uh Islam uh there is a mention of a hazrat uh coming to establish the principles again you know there's differences in the opinion whether he's already appeared whether he's going to come but there is a mention of a similar Concept in Buddhism you know there's a very strong belief especially in vajrayana Buddhism which is um you know people would uh know Tibetan Buddhism you know because whenever you go to Manali or uh McLeod ganj or everybody comes back with the prayer Flags right on their bikes and on their vehicles so that Tibetan Buddhism it's called vajrayan Buddhism and in that Buddhism there is a belief in uh scriptures called kalchakra and it is believed that these kalchakra teachings were actually passed on


that these kalchakra teachings were actually passed on by Gotham Buddha to the first king of that lineage and these there's about 32 Kings in that lineage and the last one of them would correspond to the kalki that we know from our scriptures so multiple religions multiple beliefs uh mentioned the coming back of a messiah which brings us to the second part of this podcast finally two out of five um what said about the life of kalki according to our scriptures there is a kalki purana yes as I've been told by you so I would love to know uh where do you even begin this story so kalki's story comes from various sources so you know there are major purans which are more historical more authentic and then they are the up purans that are centered around certain deities and you mean like future predictions some future some past but the up purans are more focused in their approach whereas the other purans are more expansive in the coverage and like Vishnu


more expansive in the coverage and like Vishnu puran shiv puran they are one they're some of the major 18 purans and then they are the upper purans that are again you know some count 18 some count more than 18 and kalki puran is one of the up purans but that is not to say that it is less authentic or less believable because the prediction of kalki comes from all the major brands whether it is the Padma puran there's I I think in Bishop puran also Bhagavad puran definitely Vishnu puran definitely they mentioned the coming of kalki and they also sort of give us a background of how things would be of the age of how kalyug is going to be and it's very much in line with what we see around you know it's it's it's small things like you know um just uh a person who has a lot of property would be considered respectful right it's not because of the knowledge he possesses it's because of the money that he possesses


possesses it's because of the money that he possesses you know Kings would tax people so much that they would have to leave their belongings and go and live in forests and uh caves you know so we are coming to that stage slowly that you know people are getting fed up of you know the uh life in cities you know because of the cost or expenditure which is in all and when we talk about taxes we just think of income tax right that's not it the indirect taxes you know they take up take away so much of your income or your uh you know Kitty that you have so uh there is things like you know only um consent between a boy and girl would be enough for a marriage which is what happens right today and it was actually one of the aspects of one of the ways to get married in Ancient India but that was a rarity I I didn't get this point so in they say that in kaliyog you know this will be the way things would


you know this will be the way things would happen no no the consent yeah so a consent between a boy and girl is enough for getting married versus what versus the consent of families oh okay right so you oh see damn so you see that happen sorry Dad which may not be a bad thing per se but I'm just saying that they are narrating the circumstances that we will be living in and you know and these are the milder things that I'm talking about if you actually go into the details it's quite scary that you know people would have a life of about 20 to 30 years you know puberty would start happening at 11 years and you see a lot of that thing you know happening already you know you see school kids getting into a lot of stuff which they shouldn't or which you're describing my life [Laughter] so so uh but still things are not as bad right so the kalki puran says that kalki would appear and even the other purans mentioned


kalki would appear and even the other purans mentioned that he would appear when there is a complete decimation of religion or godliness in the world you know it will be only one word now of people so Varna or is translated in English into caste but that is not what it means it means there'll be only disbelievers you know there'll be mostly atheists in the world you know when God Appears and one purpose of God appearing again is to establish religion or Dharma do you feel there's only atheists in the world I think there are a lot of them but uh I don't think we've reached that stage yet and that's why kalki hasn't arrived yet I believe Europe is facing some massive atheism problems like yes if I'm not missing this is what I've heard in like dinner or table conversations yes do you know anything about it uh not in detail but you know that's bound to happen because you see that's how religions evolve even in India if you see you know


evolve even in India if you see you know there was a time our grandparents are more religious than us right or more religious than our parents yeah you know probably I think we are more yeah we are more religious than our parents generation because we're trying to find out things which they didn't they never did or they never could maybe also because we spot our parents as dramas probably probably and I think we also have a lot more opportunity to do that you know with internet being available with post podcasts being available with books being available and easily accessible I think it's easier for us yeah uh which makes me question that two out of the three boxes are ticked but I would Percy like to believe we're going into a more theist World um which means that like worst times are gonna happen after that but right now we might be headed into better times that's what I like let's hope so let's hope so but there's a lot happening in the world uh outside India right which is not very


the world uh outside India right which is not very good and we're talking just our neighbors you see what's happening in Sri Lanka you know without getting into the geopolitics of it we all know what are the reasons you know but I have been to Sri Lanka so many times and it's very very disappointing for me to see that country you know get into ruin and Chaos like this because of human greed because of human greed and that's what kalyug is you know this is predicted to happen all over the world and we see it happening in countries across Even in our neighborhood even across the borders across uh geographies you know in different parts different hemispheres we see that happening you know countries attacking each other you know and the war has still not ended right and this predictions of something like that happening in the future as well you know probably from Asia itself so a lot of things are very uh precariously situated right now you know we can't say where


situated right now you know we can't say where we are headed we can't say whether we are headed into good times or bad times but kalki is going to appear when the times are really bad yeah uh breaking away from uh this hinduism-oriented conversation uh which I absolutely love we gotta talk about something else that I discovered recently which is in line with apocalyptic predictions for the near future have you heard see I'm so excited to talk about this have you heard of something called the Hopi apocalyptic prediction Hopi I've heard about the people but haven't heard about this prediction so it's one of the Native American tribes and uh when it comes to America we all know how massive that land mass is uh what we don't understand is before white people dominated America there was the Native Americans or what in India we call which apparently is a racial slower now but we refer to as red Indians uh now if you actually study Native American culture which is spread across USA Canada and some people would even


is spread across USA Canada and some people would even argue that it's stretched into South America it's the same kind of ethnicity yes um you know native Native ethnicity yes so the Hopi culture very interesting uh concept not spoken about enough even on YouTube I found like one good video which we linked down below it's just an audio file about how the hope is predicted a World War one two and three oh very interesting and the third one is in line with the times that they describe right now so there you go yeah and even geopolitically speaking thanks to the chavda culture on the show and thanks to all the Army folks and the Navy folks and the Air Force people that we meet on the show right I do believe I mean I hate saying this and I'm not but I'm seeing some tough times ahead from a geopolitical scenario which might Point towards some sort of a war now when you tie this into what the Hopi culture predicts it's just scary man they talk about the


predicts it's just scary man they talk about the formation of the U.N the League of Nations they talk about how the Native Americans wanted to be a part of the League of Nations and the U.N as a separate country because that time they weren't a part of the United States of America they were counted as sort of an independent uh groups and both times they were rejected badly uh they also spoke about four Chief cultures of the world India was not mentioned that before you guys get hopeful they spoke about generally African culture I think its headquarters were supposed to be in Kenya they spoke about Native American culture headquarters was near this Hopi civilization which I don't know where it was in which part of USA right um they spoke about white culture headquartered in Europe around Switzerland and uh they spoke about Asian culture headquartered in Tibet I don't know where India would fall in this would it be a part of Asian or would it be a part of Native American I'll tell you


it be a part of Native American I'll tell you why I say this they said that all four cultures represented four different elements so the white culture represented fire and they were responsible for taking the world forward right you know like movement technology invention yeah uh the Black Culture was the chief of the uh elements it represented water uh and they were responsible for reminding the world of both power and humility and that's what that particular race is blessed with uh the Asians were uh responsible for the element of air and they were responsible also for spiritual growth okay uh like we talk about it right you know and and I love the idea that possibly spirituality came out of India but I have my doubts with it it couldn't have just been our landmass right possibly Tibet China these places had to have played a role there around same geography similar teachings we have to look at it from a macro skill you can't be like oh everything was India yes you know so uh that's why I I kind of


you know so uh that's why I I kind of agreed with this Theory and they spoke about their own culture which is Native American which I assume is spread over North America and South America and they say that their culture was very in sync with Nature's elements you see elements of that in ancient shamanic cultures from South America where they know about plants mushrooms yes their version of ayurved their version of this uh psychedelic spirituality uh their understanding of animals the Amazon rainforest in general right uh so it made a lot of sense to me and they said that for total world peace to us the folk I'll just have to come together and work towards World Peace we have to remember we all came out of the same um family right we're all one and I love that message you know rather than say Oh India is better than China or India is better than everyone else you have to think of the fact that at the end of the day there's a human being sitting in Slovenia there's a human


human being sitting in Slovenia there's a human being sitting in Ethiopia the human being sitting in Brazil and we're all effectively the same I think you know that's the next step for Humanity and I think kalki will sort of help in achieving US in US achieving that so we can also see that in India happening a bit right so um I I think irrespective of the race or the color involved you know the boundaries of nations have to break you know the nation state came out as a historical thing you know where when the nations were growing so you when you have that feeling of patriotism you work towards development of the society and that is our ancient cultures are they were always inculcating these values that would help the society develop more than the individual so whenever you see an individual hankering for more than what the society can provide you see a villain coming out of it you know whether it's whether it is ravan whether it is any other


whether it is ravan whether it is any other asur from the scriptures but whenever you see an individual striving to bring Equanimity and progress you see godliness coming in in the form of an avatar whether it is Krishna who uh you know he enshrined inclusiveness you know he was he was born as a prince but he was left as a baby you know to grow with cow herds and you know still he grew up to become a king maker you know the kind of situations and circumstances he dealt with he was there were so many attempts at his life you know even when he was a baby and he survived and whether you believe in the stories or not whether you believe there were exaggerations there were definitely some historical basis to that right but he faced all those circumstances to emerge as a person who would bring India back to a place from where it can grow spiritually right same for Lord Ram you know he set ideals for the entire Society to follow


he set ideals for the entire Society to follow he was the ideal son he was the ideal brother he was the ideal enemy even as an enemy he did not allow the Vana troops to ransack you know the Harem of Lanka you know for which is what ravan used to do you know he used to abduct women in thousands from the kingdoms that he was destroying and devastating and uh in fact he suggested in both the cases where he killed Vali and he killed ravan he suggested that the next king marry the queen so so grief actually married Tara who was Valley's wife and he and ramen showed that angad who was vali's son would be uh made the heir to the kingdom so there so that there would be no Civil War in the Kingdom similarly in Lanka vivishan actually married mandodari not a lot of people know that um actually married mandodari and you know again probably to avoid a civil war so a lot of things uh can be


civil war so a lot of things uh can be looked at a perspective of you know a godliness or evil presence of evil or good depends on what you're doing for personal greed versus what you're doing for the society and what about parshuram he just went and no no no definitely not see parshuram had a personal Grudge to begin with which he settled he settled the score by killing karthaviraj Arjun you know who was antagonist in the story he did not have to do it 21 times the only reason he continued doing it because he saw the condition of other people was also the same as his where you know everybody you know in the world a lot a big chunk of population was suffering because of evil and corrupt rulers this is why I want to highlight our Hindi podcast I mean a lot of our listeners don't understand Hindi and this message is not for you but for the ones that do there's so many of our English listeners which don't even know about


many of our English listeners which don't even know about the existence of a Hindi podcast where we've actually broken down these kind of topics and Hindi uh this local dialect of ours can bring a different kind of emotion to storytelling and content definitely so we had a very good podcast on parshuram yeah uh so I mean just want to highlight because you're talking about kalki that person was the previous kalki you know he was a kalki in the previous era where he did exactly the same thing he killed the evil and corrupt Kings yeah and he did it not for himself it was nothing that benefited him in any way in fact it was a tedious task to roam around the world killing finding evil Kings and killing them right and he was ready to do it even till the times of Mahabharat and ramayan imagined that's a massive responsibility you know I would be like I'm done with 21 times and now I'm resting you know but he was still ready to


resting you know but he was still ready to do that coming back to the story so I think we covered like the general commentary about the Messiah we covered aspects of the time would you like to cover the story in brief uh sure why not I think it's a very interesting story and it's very uh reminiscent of the previous avatars wherein you know they do a lot of grand uh things and you know they achieve a lot of uh Grand Feats and there's a bit of romance there's a bit of action romance story yes of course you know which of the other I mean not all of that has had a counterpart a spouse but uh in Ram's Story the entire uh abduction and rescue of Sita adds the bit of romance you know between the husband and wife in krishna's story of course there's the gopis earlier and then you know rukmani and the uh ashtabharia you know and a lot of people don't know those parts of the story you know where Krishna had


parts of the story you know where Krishna had to go through a lot of uh struggle to get each of the uh you know princesses to marry so um kalki's story has a bit of everything a bit of romance action a bit of uh you know Larger than Life uh imagery uh Grand battle multiple Grand battles uh quintessential villain which is Kali and again you know a lot of people uh don't realize there's a difference between the villain Kali and Kali a lot of especially Western uh followers I realize you know they confuse between the two Kali and Kali are completely different Kali is a goddess and Kali is the demon right and I think it's also because of the way God this Kali has been represented represented in some western movies earlier you know like sindabad and all where they showed her being controlled by a tantric Etc so uh there's a misrepresentation of Kali uh in the western hemisphere which gives rise to this confusion so let me


which gives rise to this confusion so let me clear that once and for all that Kali is different from Kali so Kali is the villain in kalki's story and interestingly since we've mentioned Kali I would also like to highlight here that in Tantra there is a concept where Kali is equated with Krishna both of them are Dark and both of them are larger than life you know so in Tantra there's a very beautiful concept where the dashaftaar of Lord Vishnu are related with the dash mahavidyas which are different forms of Kali but we're not getting into that right now it's for uh kalki's story you know there's there's a romance between him who will be born in shambhal which will probably be in Tibet based on the Tibetan scriptures uh according to Hindu scriptures the location is not given but a lot of people believe it will somewhere be probably uttar Pradesh because I think there's a town of that name there but the Tibetan prophecies


of that name there but the Tibetan prophecies believe that the king would be born in uh Tibet in shambhal and uh the prince says that he's going to marry would be from Sri Lanka the country that we were discussing earlier so uh you know there's a cross-country romance and you know how they interact it's through a parrot and uh you know so it's a it's an interesting story Twitter yeah a talking parrot probably like Twitter so I mean I'm constantly trying to draw out the modern day battles like we're already in such a modern world where we talk about the internet and crypto when the meta was that I'm just trying to figure where this could fit definitely definitely it's quite obvious it's quite it's quite probable that you know there would be some amount of Technology involved in this like I believe Nostradamus when he had predicted World War II he predicted the uh fighter jet bombers as being controlled by flying pigs which was actually a representation of the